Dair into grab?

[spotme5]

Hey guys I'm a lurker and a semi- new Puff main from Chicago. I have Jiggly's fundamentals pretty much down put I keep messing up her dair into grab. I always end up light shielding after the l-cancel. Is there any tips or help people can give me with this? Thanks in advance

 

[Dominus Felis]

Use L or R+A to grab out of dair if you're light shielding on accident.

 

[Massive]

If you are willing to do some additional training, you can L-cancel with Z and avoid the lightshield issue due to the digital nature of the input.

Dair > Grab is the single hardest piece of useful jigglypuff tech (I will also argue that it's harder than the fox/falco equivalent due to the very wonky timing). Shield dropping is definitely harder, IMO, but puff's fall speed is too slow to do much with it.

 

[Dominus Felis]

I like to kill puppies.

WHY?

 

[Massive]

They are delicious.

 

[spotme5]

Yeah it's pretty wonky, could never figure out if I was doing something wrong cause I just keep being inconsistent with it. Thanks for the help I guess I just got to keep practicing

 

[Sarej]

If you are willing to do some additional training, you can L-cancel with Z and avoid the lightshield issue due to the digital nature of the input.

Dair > Grab is the single hardest piece of useful jigglypuff tech (I will also argue that it's harder than the fox/falco equivalent due to the very wonky timing). Shield dropping is definitely harder, IMO, but puff's fall speed is too slow to do much with it.

Shield dropping is quite useful even on Puff, you can use it to get out of a sticky situation and instantly jump back slightly below the platform and throw out an aerial. I personally am having a tough time with it, I also think there is a lot to be said about wavelanding on platforms to confuse your opponent.

Wavedashing very fast can be very useful in matchups like Falcon so I'd definitely master the hell out of that. With that said I never really had a tough time learning dair into grab, just takes time getting used to the l-cancel. I found nair into up tilt which leads into a rest (sometimes) is much harder to learn.

 

[Massive]

Shield dropping is quite useful even on Puff, you can use it to get out of a sticky situation and instantly jump back slightly below the platform and throw out an aerial.

Even fastfalling puff's fallspeed is very low. I've found that it disincentivises shield dropping since you can get easily punished out of it if they're not right on top of you. That being said, additional movement options are never bad, in this case they're just less useful.

I personally am having a tough time with it, I also think there is a lot to be said about wavelanding on platforms to confuse your opponent.

Puff's awkward jump height makes this a fantastic strategy. It can be hard for opponents to know if you're actually going to land on the platform or not, and wave landing adds to that substantially. I also recommend practicing quick platform lands (jump twice and airdodge down onto the platform), puff's still not very fast at this but it can still get you some freebie tomahawk grabs if they're platform camping.

I found nair into up tilt which leads into a rest (sometimes) is much harder to learn.

At certain pecentages nair will also force someone to tech on landing. Being that it's autocancelled, it actually lets you cover most of their wakeup options with fsmash or bair since you'll be moving in the same direction as them after the hit. I've found it to be very effective against falcon, sheik, and marth's approaches.

 

[FrankGoldman]

its pretty useful from the edge if you opponent is overextended

 

[Sarej]

Even fastfalling puff's fallspeed is very low. I've found that it disincentivises shield dropping since you can get easily punished out of it if they're not right on top of you. That being said, additional movement options are never bad, in this case they're just less useful.

Puff's awkward jump height makes this a fantastic strategy. It can be hard for opponents to know if you're actually going to land on the platform or not, and wave landing adds to that substantially. I also recommend practicing quick platform lands (jump twice and airdodge down onto the platform), puff's still not very fast at this but it can still get you some freebie tomahawk grabs if they're platform camping.

At certain pecentages nair will also force someone to tech on landing. Being that it's autocancelled, it actually lets you cover most of their wakeup options with fsmash or bair since you'll be moving in the same direction as them after the hit. I've found it to be very effective against falcon, sheik, and marth's approaches.

Speaking of ACing, I've looked all over the internet and can't find out how to really do it on Puff. I assumed I pop nair out earlier and land just as it ends but I wasn't sure.

 

[Massive]

Speaking of ACing, I've looked all over the internet and can't find out how to really do it on Puff. I assumed I pop nair out earlier and land just as it ends but I wasn't sure.

N-Air

Total: 49
Hit: 6-28
Auto cancel: <5, >29
Landlag: 20
Lcanceled: 10

Straight from the framedata thread:
You see where it says Auto cancel?
Land in those frames (before frame 5 or after frame 29), basically just after your attack ends.

As a quick-and-fast rule, If you shorthop and nair asap, you'll basically always hit the autocancel.

 

[Sarej]

Oh really? So I can with a fast SH nair get the auto cancel. Hmmm, I've tested it a bit on Icies and I've found you can get a rest due to their weird knockback nature.

 

[Massive]

Oh really? So I can with a fast SH nair get the auto cancel. Hmmm, I've tested it a bit on Icies and I've found you can get a rest due to their weird knockback nature.

Nair > rest is DI dependent, but does work.
Vs. ICs you can basically faceroll bairs and enough will get though that they become effective.

Hilariously (tragically?) enough you can also use rollout on ICs and hit nana pretty reliably too.

 

[Dominus Felis]

Nair > rest is DI dependent, but does work.
Vs. ICs you can basically faceroll bairs and enough will get though that they become effective.

Hilariously (tragically?) enough you can also use rollout on ICs and hit nana pretty reliably too.

As a former IC's main I can say that this entire quote is entirely true, and sad.

 

[Sarej]

Well I know as a Jiggs player I should never have to much trouble with Ice Climbers. The big problem I find with Icie players is that they don't really often adjust to the matchup, they should be playing it completely differently.

 

[ChumSSBM]

This always happens to me when i try to do dair into grab or up smash D:

 

[deadPhoenix]

Hey guys, sorry for digging up a thread, but was wondering if anybody could tell me how they normally go about l cancelling dair consistently? Do you press R/L at the right time? Do you spam Z? What's your method?

 

[-LzR-]

Hey guys, sorry for digging up a thread, but was wondering if anybody could tell me how they normally go about l cancelling dair consistently? Do you press R/L at the right time? Do you spam Z? What's your method?

The trick is to Lcancel while landing with the very last hit. Otherwise it will be unsafe even on hit. You are probably Lcanceling it just fine, just not on the right hit. Learn the rhythm.

 

[deadPhoenix]

The trick is to Lcancel while landing with the very last hit. Otherwise it will be unsafe even on hit. You are probably Lcanceling it just fine, just not on the right hit. Learn the rhythm.

This is why I laugh whenever somebody says that Jiggly mains don't deserve respect. Thanks for the tip, I had no idea that was even possible, to l cancel and a hit other than the last. I guess I'll get back in the workshop.

I've heard HBox spams Z at the end of the dair, is this true? Is it easier to l cancel this way?

 

[-LzR-]

This is why I laugh whenever somebody says that Jiggly mains don't deserve respect. Thanks for the tip, I had no idea that was even possible, to l cancel and a hit other than the last. I guess I'll get back in the workshop.

I've heard HBox spams Z at the end of the dair, is this true? Is it easier to l cancel this way?

Jigglypuff is just as hard to play as any other character in the game, we just need to focus on a different set of skills than say Fox or Falcon.

Drillgrab is one of Puffs hardest techniques, but it is also very rewarding. I only learned it myself less than a month ago and it was boosted my performance considerably.

Spamming Z means that you are just constantly Lcanceling. There is no punish window for Lcanceling, you can literally just mash L/R/Zwhatever and you will nail it every single time. With Z perhaps it doesn't input a tech? I don't know, I guess it's just a case of personal preference.

 

[deadPhoenix]

Jigglypuff is just as hard to play as any other character in the game, we just need to focus on a different set of skills than say Fox or Falcon.

Drillgrab is one of Puffs hardest techniques, but it is also very rewarding. I only learned it myself less than a month ago and it was boosted my performance considerably.

Spamming Z means that you are just constantly Lcanceling. There is no punish window for Lcanceling, you can literally just mash L/R/Zwhatever and you will nail it every single time. With Z perhaps it doesn't input a tech? I don't know, I guess it's just a case of personal preference.

Well, I heard he mashes Z so that he doesn't shield after, and he can immediately input a grab after as well. This is only stuff I've heard though. He's coming out in May for a tourney out here in Colorado, so I'm hoping to ask him myself at that point, but I'm wanting to level up as much as I possibly can so I can meet some good players in bracket! :D

 

[Massive]

Spamming z works great to l-cancel dair.

It's one of the few things I could think of using a turbo button for in melee.

 

[MudkipUniverse]

Jigglypuff dair seems like the hardest move in the game to l-cancel for me

 

[justinfresco]

there's also a difference of hit frames when actually hitting the character than practicing it alone, making l-canceling the d-air a bit different every time you hit a character with it. it's all about dair experience

 

[Mtank]

In my personal experience, I l-cancel my drills with L (as I do all my moves) but at the very end of the drill, it seems to be a bit later than for most moves. Then once I'm landed on the ground and theyre in that hitstun, I hit just hit Z. Like I said, all the timing seems a bit later than for, say, a spacie, so try slowing it down.