Custom Movesets for competitive play: YAY OR NAY?

[Gidy]

(Sorry admin, I don't know if there is a thread for this or not)

Super Smash Bros 4 offers something new to the table that hasn't been in other Smashes. Custom Movesets.

For those who don't know, this allows people to customize characters traits of their moves. This picture explains it quite well.

However, for some characters like the Mii Fighters and Palutena they have 3 completely new moves to choose from for each special.

People have been debating over if this option should be used in competitive play. There is already a losing side it seems, as Sakurai has not allowed custom moves and Mii's to be used in online matches against random people.

So should there be?

This video describes my feels toward the debate, being for custom movesets:

If people are already adapting and embracing how Smash 4 is, why shouldn't we go even further?

 

[Xermo]

http://smashboards.com/threads/lega...-maybe-modifiable-attributes-no.357972/unread

 

[Gidy]

http://smashboards.com/threads/lega...-maybe-modifiable-attributes-no.357972/unread

Ah, thank you.

 

[Dr. James Rustles]

Gidy, please use the search function from now on.

 

[Moon Monkey]

 

[Epickirby547]

I think it deserves a chance. Just show your opponent your specials before starting the fight. It shouldn't take that long. It should take about as long as changing control schemes Now it looks like you'll have to earn the alternate specials seeing as they appear to be rewards to Smash Run so it might not be as easy. We'll see. I'm fine with not having them on if the competitive players ban it (insert D1 here) but I think it'll add a ton of variety to the metagame. Maybe some moves can be banned.

 

[ShredPix]

Mad thread revive.

 

[LeeYawshee]

There's been like 200 of these threads but...

Yeah, let's take the new game and make a new meta.

 

[Saikyoshi]

The people saying "no" are going to be headdesking so hard if the traditional Shine is a Reflector variation.

 

[KokiriKory]

Hell yes, it's gonna add so much variety to the game, and players are going to get used to it at home. Who's goin to want to give up their favorite attacks?

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

The people saying "no" are going to be headdesking so hard if the traditional Shine is a Reflector variation.

I wouldn't necessarily say this would be the case. Much of Shine's utility derives from the environment it's used in. The ability to wavedash out of Shine, for example, is one of its hallmarks. While a frame-quick, high-stun attack like the Melee Shine would be coveted in any environment, Fox has so much about him that differs from his Melee version that I can't see it being nearly as helpful to his game as it once was. Shine was made to work with Melee Fox, and new Fox may not be prone to benefit from it to the extent that it'd be an absolutely necessary option.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I wouldn't necessarily say this would be the case. Much of Shine's utility derives from the environment it's used in. The ability to wavedash out of Shine, for example, is one of its hallmarks. While a frame-quick, high-stun attack like the Melee Shine would be coveted in any environment, Fox has so much about him that differs from his Melee version that I can't see it being nearly as helpful to his game as it once was. Shine was made to work with Melee Fox, and new Fox may not be prone to benefit from it to the extent that it'd be an absolutely necessary option.

I disagree. In fact, I disagree a lot. Super Smash Flash 2, a project that I have competitive experience in, doesn't have wavedashing and has a similar speed goal to 4 (trying to strike a balance between Brawl and Melee), yet Shining still has a very large number of uses and Fox does pretty well there.

I don't know the specifics of 4 Fox, but I'm positive he would benefit if this was the case.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I disagree. In fact, I disagree a lot. Super Smash Flash 2, a project that I have competitive experience in, doesn't have wavedashing, yet Shining still has a very large number of uses and Fox does pretty well there.

I don't know the specifics of 4 Fox, but I'm positive he would benefit if this was the case.

I have no doubt he'd benefit. Like I said, an attack like Shine is always useful. I just don't think he'd really need it. I think most people would just learn to play Fox with his default moves (or not use him at all). I wouldn't expect a lot of regret at banning custom options.

Pretty sure every character would benefit from something like the shine.

 

[Saikyoshi]

I have no doubt he'd benefit. Like I said, an attack like Shine is always useful. I just don't think he'd really need it. I think most people would just learn to play Fox with his default moves (or not use him at all). I wouldn't expect a lot of regret at banning custom options.

Pretty sure every character would benefit from something like the shine.

I already know there would be regret in the cases of Ness (who have default moves absolutely useless in most matchups), etc. and especially characters like Palutena and the Miis.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

I already know there would be regret in the cases of Ness (who have default moves absolutely useless in most matchups), etc. and especially characters like Palutena and the Miis.

Yeah, really not sure how those characters are going to work. I expect them both to be pretty controversial.

 

[Hero of the Winds]

I think it would be interesting to see how players well, play reflected in their attacks. Like, I really like the faster but weaker attacks but that is just me. Others like to time their attacks perfectly then pack a punch

 

[Raijinken]

I want customs so I can get rid of the Gale Boomerang and get a real boomerang instead..

Oh, and because I want to see how Beat stacks up as a recovery compared to Rush.

But really, I haven't seen enough customizations to know what else I'd want. We'll have to see when the game comes out.

 

[Renji64]

I don't like the idea of custom moves as the norm stuff but a useful fludd changes everything. If falco does come back i hope his down b has some options i hate how it was in brawl.

 

[MrPanic]

“To maintain the game balance, customised fighters will not be available in With Anyone mode,” confirms Sakurai.

So in a way, Sakurai already confirmed custom movesets aren't balanced, so not viable for competitive play. That said, you could always try such a tournament out just to see how it goes. But imo a tournament is about how skillful the players can play the game, not how good they are at counter-picking their movesets. I just think these custom movesets are just gonna add a lot of hassle while not adding that much extra to the actual tournament play, so I'd rather don't see custom allowed in the main tournaments, just in side tournaments.

 

[Raijinken]

So in a way, Sakurai already confirmed custom movesets aren't balanced, so not viable for competitive play. That said, you could always try such a tournament out just to see how it goes. But imo a tournament is about how skillful the players can play the game, not how good they are at counter-picking their movesets. I just think these custom movesets are just gonna add a lot of hassle while not adding that much extra to the actual tournament play, so I'd rather don't see custom allowed in the main tournaments, just in side tournaments.

Rather, he confirmed that balancing the custom moves would not be a priority. While this doesn't mean they'll be deliberately over or under-powered, it's easier to limit everyone online (playing with Anyone) to a single set. Playing with other players you know (via friend code or whatever) changes that dynamic, as it's essentially up to the participants to decide whether or not something is balanced.

Personally, I hope that after a while, they put some post-release effort into patching them, and then update With Anyone to allow custom movesets. Until then, well, I never really played much online to begin with, much less with random people, so I can't say the restriction online bothers me.

 

[κomıc]

Totally. Customizing your character to fit your playstyle really opens up many doors for possibilities and may even have a chance on determining balance. Also, wearing equipment may also be another bonus.

 

[Raijinken]

Totally. Customizing your character to fit your playstyle really opens up many doors for possibilities and may even have a chance on determining balance. Also, wearing equipment may also be another bonus.

I think the equipment options will be more polarizing than just custom moves, since they affect the other player roughly as much as the user.

 

[ferioku]

Definitely, YAY, no one should ruin this games Meta!

 

[KawaiiPiranha]

Yes they should.
This isn't Melee or Brawl. It's an entirely new game with new mechanics and elements.

This game has custom moves. If you don't want to use them, there are three games in the series without them. It'd be silly to omit such a large part of Smash 4 just because it's different.