• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Custom Moveset Project: Leaf & Plant Poll

Leaf Shield or Plant Barrier?

  • Leaf Shield

    Votes: 19 48.7%
  • Plant Barrier

    Votes: 20 51.3%

  • Total voters
    39

Knight Dude

Keeping it going.
Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
21,230
Location
The States
NNID
Kaine-Rodgers
3DS FC
0232-7749-6030
I'm leaning toward Plant Barrier more. I feel it's slightly better for close range, since they don't break apart like the individual leafs. Though I'm not too sure which is better for edge guarding.
 

Jehtt

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
268
Location
California
NNID
TurboJett
I'm leaning toward Plant Barrier more. I feel it's slightly better for close range, since they don't break apart like the individual leafs. Though I'm not too sure which is better for edge guarding.
I prefer the leafshield more for edgeguarding, since it starts faster and lasts longer. Since edgeguarding is primarily what I use the damaging down bs for, I prefer the leaf shield.
 

---

鉄腕
Super Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 27, 2008
Messages
13,499
Location
Michigan
NNID
TripleDash
3DS FC
1719-3728-6991
Switch FC
SW-1574-3686-1211
LMAO nearly 12 hours later and we have a 9/9 tie.
 

ChopperDave

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
496
3DS FC
3007-8077-4055
For reference, here are the known differences between the two moves. Green = better, red = worse, blue = equal, purple = different but debateable.

LEAF SHIELD:
  • Base Damage: 2% (per leaf), 3.8% (throw)
  • Base Angle: 361 (leaf), 45 (throw)
  • Base Knockback: 15 (leaf), 50 (throw)
  • Knockback Growth: 22 (leaf), 70 (throw)
  • Weight-based Knockback Modifier: 0 (leaf), 0 (throw)
  • Quicker start up on activation
  • Quicker throw (I think quicker startup, same cooldown, based on testing in Pac Maze)
  • More active frames
  • Fixed, shorter range when rotating around Mega Man
  • Leaf hitboxes disappear on hit
  • Greater range when thrown
PLANT BARRIER:
  • Base Damage: 3% (per pedal), 4.2% (throw)
  • Base Angle: 45 (pedal), 45 (throw)
  • Base Knockback: 20 (pedal),20 (throw)
  • Knockback Growth: 35 (pedal), 35 (throw)
  • Weight-based Knockback Modifier: 0 (pedal), 0 (throw)
  • More start up frames on activation
  • Slower throw (I think more start up frames, same cooldown, based on testing in Pac Maze)
  • Fewer active frames
  • Greater range when rotating around MM, undulates in and out
  • Pedal hitboxes do not disappear on hit
  • Less range when thrown
Here is what some of these differences mean in practice:

1. Leaf Shield has less knockback overall when rotating, which I think is better because it's easier to trap people into taking multiple hits or a grab, especially when you're trying to trap landings with it.

2. Leaf Shield has the Sakurai angle, which means it can "leaf lock" opponents who miss a ground tech. Plant Barrier cannot lock opponents.

3. With a difference of only 1% in hitbox strength, there really aren't many moves that will outprioritize Leaf Shield but not Plant Barrier, in theory. However, Plant Barrier pedal hitboxes do not disappear on hit, and they also undulate outward from MM, making them more likely to safely intercept attacks before they collide with one of MM's hurtboxes. So in practice Plant Barrier is often a better defensive option than it might seem on paper.

4. The undulation of the pedals makes them more likely to hit opponents holding onto the ledge than Leaf Shield, which often lacks the necessary range, particularly against characters whose hurtboxes remain below the lip of the stage when hanging.

5. Leaf Shield is faster, both on activation and on throw.

6. Leaf Shield has greater knockback growth than Plant Barrier for the throw attack, which has its pros and cons. On the one hand, it can make it easier to follow up on than Plant Barrier throw, especially given that Leaf Shield throw is quicker overall. Also, knocking people higher into the air is generally better for stage control. On the other hand, some people may value the lower knockback of Plant Barrier throw, because it can more easily lead into grounded followups like usmash and grab. This one is really a matter of opinion, IMO.

7. Leaf Shield has more active frames than Plant Barrier, which again has its pros and cons. On the one hand, more frames means more time to sit in shield, go for grabs, or throw. On the other hand, more frames means more time that you're locked out of your normal moveset, including UpB. It's definitely easier to self gimp with Leaf Shield, especially on stages without ledges you can wall jump off from.
 
Last edited:

Blade Knight

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
722
This is ridiculous, it's been completely even the entire time. I think this kind of shows that at this point there is no definitive better choice. We all need to improve and get more matchup experience using both before deciding.
 

CopShowGuy

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Messages
704
Location
St. Louis, MO
NNID
CopShowGuy
3DS FC
0430-8285-4172
The leaves disappearing from the shield isn't even that big of an issue. It doesn't last long enough to matter.
Maybe if you got more hits in from Plant Barrier per pummel, it would make more sense to me but you don't (I'm aware of Plant Barrier's higher damage).
 
Last edited:

YELLO

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
231
Location
Albuquerque
NNID
kyuuketsukou
3DS FC
2509-3654-5979
Plant Barrier will also eat away stronger projectiles, like a charged link arrow as the Leaf Shield will not
 

Anomilus

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
1,221
Location
The space between genius and madness
NNID
Hyperdon
For me, the difference in start-up makes the biggest chunk of difference.

You don't activate Plant Barrier in a tight situation like you would Leaf Shield. All the same, you don't expect Leaf Shield to be sturdy like Plant Barrier can be. Therefore Leaf Shield's faster start-up and slightly worse durability makes it an optimal anti-pressure move, and Plant Barrier's slower start-up and better size and durability suggests a pressure move for Mega Man.

Off stage, Leaf Shield lasts longer, but that can be a detriment at times, and its smaller size and lower durability can betray its capability. Plant Barrier's size and shorter duration makes it a safer edgeguard tool. As mentioned in the Customs topic, combining it with Beat lets Mega Man freely chase after opponents trying to recover then safely get back to the stage once PB ends.

As projectiles, I honestly don't see the big deal. It's not like Mega Man's going to be actively trying to throw his shields when he typically has better projectiles. Maybe you get the hit. Maybe you snuff an opponent's projectile once in a while. Sure, fine.

So basically, while both moves can help Mega Man push his offense, Leaf Shield is better geared toward dampening the opponent's offense, and Plant Barrier lets Mega Man press in on his foes on and off the stage.

The question to ask then is: Which sets would prefer the bolster defense, and which sets most enjoy semi-aggressive pressure?

IMO, I think Metal Blade sets most enjoy Leaf Shield due to its shorter start-up and longer duration. Adding MB bolsters LS's offensive capabilities. Meanwhile sets without Metal Blade OR sets using Beat ought to consider Plant Barrier due to better dissuasion.

...Of course Skull Barrier trumps both if any form of anti-projectile is desired.
 

Azazel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
415
Location
Costa Mesa, CA
Quicker start up and longer lasting and a better projectile, Leaf shield wins.
Also because it has less knockback and a sakurai angle, it is better at gimping fast fallers since it kills their vertical ascent and they naturally fall like a brick.

I feel that Plant shield is too slow and utility limited.
 

mega4000

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Messages
244
This is impressively close... These two moves were seemingly very well balanced despite how similar they are.
Ampharos can I suggest something? put in charge every single moderator (so they have the final word and the task to decide in their respective character forums which sets we are gonna use). Let the moderators ask which moves have best sinergy with which move so that way you will get rid of a lot of useless sets, for example crash bomb needs always skull barrier(skull barrier can go with a lot of things but crash bomb doesn't) and tornado hold needs always danger wrap (danger wrap can go with everything but tornado hold can't) see my point? it would be stupid to put shadow blade with ice slasher for example when you have a better option with metal blade + ice slasher. When is the deadline? if you do that only mods will give you sets and you will finish this way more quickly instead of visiting every single forum and see how they fight for sets.
 

Funkermonster

The Clown
Joined
May 19, 2013
Messages
1,460
Location
Mesa, Arizona
NNID
Funkermonster
3DS FC
3308-4834-0412
I've been liking Plant Barrier a little more, personally. I happen to prefer it for its higher damage and the fact that the petals don't disappear, and while lasting a shorter time can be pretty detrimental sometimes, at least I'm less likely to gimp myself and I get more time to UpB. It doesn't fly as far as Leaf Shield does, but that's fine with me since I barely use LS as a projectile anyway when I've already got plenty more where that came from, and I can still edgeguard with Metal Blades and Crash Bombers anyway. The slower startup on Plant Barrier is pretty annoying though, so I still like LS every now and then. Both are great in their own right, but Plant Barrier wins me over personally.

I might be a tad biased though, cause I like Plant Man a little more than Wood Man..... and yet nobody likes Plant Man.
 
Top Bottom