Custom AI

[TweetyPurd]

I heard about the new forza on xbox, and aparently it takes in data from when you race your friends, and creates a custom AI profile based on them, so you can verse computer controlled cars who make decisions like your friend does.

I think this would be a cool feature to impliment in the new smash, where is can create a custom AI based on how a person plays.
For example, if a player is more likely to block or counter, or clash, or dodge, the AI would record that, and play in that way.

I just think it could actually work, and be a fun addition to the game.
(please ask any questions if i havnt made myself clear)

 

[PlayerXIII]

All I can say is - if any character plays similar to Dante in PSASBR (sue me, but I tried to go competitive on that piece of crap before Smash T_T) then my friends will hate me.

 

[Niko Mar]

All I can say is - if any character plays similar to Dante in PSASBR (sue me, but I tried to go competitive on that piece of crap before Smash T_T) then my friends will hate me.

I don't think any Smash character can hit you once and then you die lol. That game was such bull****.

Edit: Btw, I think this is a great idea. We already know that Smash AI learns to a degree, so they could implement that to a higher degree and let you share "ghosts" online.

 

[BluePikmin11]

This would be a neat idea, it would definitely help me alot to (try) play against tournament players.

 

[GreenReaperGod]

Yeah. I remember when I got Brawl and I could beat all of my friends who had it (14). I though I was the best Brawl player ever xD

 

[BoomToon]

I absolutely love this idea. I don't know of any people who play smash around here (away at school) so I find myself playing single player or playing the cp in versus until i go back home for breaks and play with friends. It's just never the same!

 

[DakotaBonez]

I dont understand why people still make these threads. It was cool to talk about features that would be awesome for the next smash when we knew nothing about it, but now that its halfway finished the picture is pretty clear.
I wonder how easy it would be to implement a feature like this, I can't even imagine how you'd begin to approach reprogramming the AI based off of another player's movements. I mean, its easier in a racing game where all of the cars behave exactly the same, but obviously in a fighting game youd have a different reaction to approaching sonic than you would approaching Pit. You'd have to basically make 50 new CPU AI, one to react to each character.

 

[mimgrim]

I dont understand why people still make these threads. It was cool to talk about features that would be awesome for the next smash when we knew nothing about it, but now that its halfway finished the picture is pretty clear.
I wonder how easy it would be to implement a feature like this, I can't even imagine how you'd begin to approach reprogramming the AI based off of another player's movements. I mean, its easier in a racing game where all of the cars behave exactly the same, but obviously in a fighting game youd have a different reaction to approaching sonic than you would approaching Pit. You'd have to basically make 50 new CPU AI, one to react to each character.

This. It just isn't realistic for a fighting game of any kind with more then a single fighter.

 

[Morbi]

I dont understand why people still make these threads. It was cool to talk about features that would be awesome for the next smash when we knew nothing about it, but now that its halfway finished the picture is pretty clear.
I wonder how easy it would be to implement a feature like this, I can't even imagine how you'd begin to approach reprogramming the AI based off of another player's movements. I mean, its easier in a racing game where all of the cars behave exactly the same, but obviously in a fighting game youd have a different reaction to approaching sonic than you would approaching Pit. You'd have to basically make 50 new CPU AI, one to react to each character.

What? That doesn't make any sense. It is the same concept through and through, it just doesn't work as well in a fighting game. You wouldn't have to do anything differently though.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

This would be interesting.

 

[TimeSmash]

It would be nice if they found out techniques in the game that could be used by the CPUs. Like if CPUs could wavedash and DACUS, etc. that would be awesome, and help us discover game or character-specific abilities a hell of a lot faster.

 

[TweetyPurd]

The idea was that it would be character specific, so it would only make custom AI for the specific character you were playing as.
obviously it wouldnt be perfect, but i think it would be fun and interesting
for example, in brawl, alot of marth players use fair ALOT, because its so great, but cpus hardly do it at all

 

[TweetyPurd]

I dont understand why people still make these threads. It was cool to talk about features that would be awesome for the next smash when we knew nothing about it, but now that its halfway finished the picture is pretty clear.
I wonder how easy it would be to implement a feature like this, I can't even imagine how you'd begin to approach reprogramming the AI based off of another player's movements. I mean, its easier in a racing game where all of the cars behave exactly the same, but obviously in a fighting game youd have a different reaction to approaching sonic than you would approaching Pit. You'd have to basically make 50 new CPU AI, one to react to each character.

and to this, i understand what youre saying, but if theyre trying to say that wii u is "next gen" its little detials like this that goes a huge way to proving that its next gen.
HD graphics are not enough

 

[Networker1]

As someone who has dabbled in programming enough to understand how a computer "thinks" I can tell you that this would be one pain of a programming job. This feature would probably push the game back 2-3 months by my estimate. The computer would have to adapt to your strategies for each character in each situation. (of which there are thousands if we have a roster as large as brawl's) The actual adaption process would comprise of noting what works and what doesn't, which means any long term strategy moves would probably be ignored, and anything that involves taking a hit to deal a heavier one may be registered as a loss. However you may be able to have it learn in a way that makes it watch what moves you use most and simply use those moves at every opportunity, and/or improve it's skills at dodging those moves. Unfortunately, it won't be as amazing as you wish, it just isn't realistic.

Edit: after re-reading the OP, here are some additional thoughts.

You could simply add "clash more" or "dodge more" AI modes in a basic AI editor.

Alternatively, you could get really technical and add a script editor for character AI's and say, for example:
{'this would be the file accessed when finding AI matchups, whichever detected matchups were "true" would be the only sub-files accessed
If AI = Marth
AND
If vs. Sonic = true
Then useAI = MarthVSonic}

{'this paragraph is part of the useAI file: MarthVSonic
If Sonic_dash1 = true
Then
jump + D-Air: 75%
S-Dodge: 25%}

In simple terms, this kind of input could teach Marth to usually use his Dair if he is approached by Sonic while sonic is dashing, as to dodge and counter the coming dash attack. There would also be a 1 in 4 chance that Marth spot-dodges instead. The above example only addresses one of dozens of situations Marth may face when fighting Sonic. The other thing is that you need a large useAI file for each different matchup, including 3 or 4 player fights, or, you give priority to different scripts so that they can function without overlap.

 

[TweetyPurd]

As someone who has dabbled in programming enough to understand how a computer "thinks" I can tell you that this would be one pain of a programming job. This feature would probably push the game back 2-3 months by my estimate. The computer would have to adapt to your strategies for each character in each situation. (of which there are thousands if we have a roster as large as brawl's) The actual adaption process would comprise of noting what works and what doesn't, which means any long term strategy moves would probably be ignored, and anything that involves taking a hit to deal a heavier one may be registered as a loss. However you may be able to have it learn in a way that makes it watch what moves you use most and simply use those moves at every opportunity, and/or improve it's skills at dodging those moves. Unfortunately, it won't be as amazing as you wish, it just isn't realistic.

Edit: after re-reading the OP, here are some additional thoughts.

You could simply add "clash more" or "dodge more" AI modes in a basic AI editor.

Alternatively, you could get really technical and add a script editor for character AI's and say, for example:
{'this would be the file accessed when finding AI matchups, whichever detected matchups were "true" would be the only sub-files accessed
If AI = Marth
AND
If vs. Sonic = true
Then useAI = MarthVSonic}

{'this paragraph is part of the useAI file: MarthVSonic
If Sonic_dash1 = true
Then
jump + D-Air: 75%
S-Dodge: 25%}

In simple terms, this kind of input could teach Marth to usually use his Dair if he is approached by Sonic while sonic is dashing, as to dodge and counter the coming dash attack. There would also be a 1 in 4 chance that Marth spot-dodges instead. The above example only addresses one of dozens of situations Marth may face when fighting Sonic. The other thing is that you need a large useAI file for each different matchup, including 3 or 4 player fights, or, you give priority to different scripts so that they can function without overlap.

Awesome man :D thanks for the feedback
i definatly understand what youre saying, in the end it would take an incredible ammount of data, and it would also never become truley accurate of the player either.
So maybe the part i would most like to see are general options, like wether they try to block or dodge, wether they edgegaurd from the stage or offstage. wether they go for air attacks or stick to the ground.
wether they run in, or stay back and fire projectiles.

i think more overall and simple rules like this could work

 

[Vintage Creep]

All I can say is - if any character plays similar to Dante in PSASBR (sue me, but I tried to go competitive on that piece of crap before Smash T_T) then my friends will hate me.

Raiden is a lot worse in that game. The definition of OP.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

This would be a pretty cool idea. Though it does sound like a coding nightmare. But even if they were to push back some development time, I think it would be worth it in the end.

I wonder how the AI would filter relevant match data from certain opponents. Like the player can choose which opponent they've faced online to emulate and they follow a series of recorded commands from certain points in that match to their advantage. Realistically, there would be a cap for how much of this data you could hold at a time. But if this were to actually hold successful, it would be an interesting advancement in AI. Just wonder how much this feature would be more challenging or accurate as opposed to fighting an actual human player.

 

[XTheElegantShadowX]

Wouldn't something more akin to what Shadow Link does when you fight him in Melee or Brawl be more effective? Shadow Link could, for the most part, read the player's controller and act according to what the likely outcomes of the player's input would be, and attempt to intercept it via countering, dodging, or out right beating that attack/option out.

Though, In all honesty, I think that making a smarter (as in better, not cheaper) AI would be MUCH easier than making a customizable one. Another idea would be to make AI read the opponent and analyze their playstyle and have it learn in a way that the more you fight them, the more they learn.

As a side note, I'd like to point out that I do fond this to be a great idea, it's just that, as some people have said and echoed on here, it would take quite a lot to implement, and would push back the initial release of the game itself. Which, with Nintendo's current situation, would be VERY BAD.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Eh, guess Sora Ltd. could develop the feature under the cover of a TBA release date. 2013 is coming to a close!

 

[Networker1]

I do like the idea, but it isn't realistic if we want smash by next year as promised. Perhaps this could be a major selling point for a fighting game, but it would have to be flawless, or else it is just wasted development time.

 

[TweetyPurd]

Raiden is a lot worse in that game. The definition of OP.

Clearly you havnt seen an isaac vs raiden match

 

[Vintage Creep]

Clearly you havnt seen an isaac vs raiden match

That's because I refused to pay for those ****ty DLCs.

 

[TweetyPurd]

That's because I refused to pay for those ****ty DLCs.

So did i i just saw some online match and it was so stupid i refused to buy them!
havnt played that game in like 6 months now

 

[TweetyPurd]

Hhhmmmm Amiibo sounds awfully similar to my idea WHICH YOU ALL SHUT DOWN AND SAID WAS IMPOSSIBLE!

im just kidding haha speculation was fun!

 

[CaptainCrisb]

Hhhmmmm Amiibo sounds awfully similar to my idea WHICH YOU ALL SHUT DOWN AND SAID WAS IMPOSSIBLE!

im just kidding haha speculation was fun!

I'm a little rusty on the amiibo stuff, but basically it's like you said where it can analyze your patterns and place your weaknesses against you? Right? And don't they go up to like... level 40 instead of level 9?

 

[ScottyWK]

I thought this was possible in Brawl to a lighter extent? I remember reading about being able to train your lvl 9 computers to do certain things.

My roommate at the time was a Wolf spammer, so I played against the computer as Wolf for a long time just spamming the blaster and f-smash. After awhile, whenever I played against an AI Wolf, he started the match by spamming the blaster.

 

[TimeSmash]

I thought this was possible in Brawl to a lighter extent? I remember reading about being able to train your lvl 9 computers to do certain things.

My roommate at the time was a Wolf spammer, so I played against the computer as Wolf for a long time just spamming the blaster and f-smash. After awhile, whenever I played against an AI Wolf, he started the match by spamming the blaster.

I might be mistaken but I thought this was disproven. I had moments like this too though in Brawl.