CRT tvs that important?

[MrRakso]

me and my friend are trying to get into the competitive scene, i heard that we needed a CRT tv, but where i live, finding one is almost next impossible, i wanted to know what are the benefits of a crt tv, i know that LCD have more lag, but what if the my lcd HD tv has gamemode, does that reduce the lag? also, is every CRT tv like standard, or are some better than others?
THANK YOU

 

[AirFair]

You need it because you can carry it to tournaments, less lag, and gamemode may reduce lag, but not as much as you might need it to.

GO TO GOODWILL BRUH

I don't have a crt tier list

 

[EPsilon933]

CRTs have almost no lag. Monitors and HDTVs tend to lag by at least 10 ms, which is more than half of a frame. It can affect a lot of players. The better and more technical ones will notice it more easily

CRTs cost like $5-$10 at thrift stores. The price isn't at all something to worry about

If for some reason you can never find a CRT, you could use component cables to play in 480p which helps reduce lag

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

The real problem is finding a CRT that does not weigh a ton x.x

 

[Stride]

Game mode can reduce lag, but it's still there.

Even one or two frames of lag is significant, and most TVs have far more than that even with optimal settings.

All CRTs have practically the same amount of lag, but there are still properties that make some better than others such as picture quality, size/weight, presence of component inputs or outputs, etc.

Go out of your way to get a CRT as soon as possible. If you have a gaming monitor already or if you really can't find a CRT then you can use that with a component/composite to HDMI converter, which should result in significantly under 1 frame of lag.

 

[EPsilon933]

If you have a gaming monitor already or if you really can't find a CRT then you can use that with a component/composite to HDMI converter, which should result in significantly under 1 frame of lag.

Most gaming monitors tend to have about 9+ ms of display lag. I wouldn't call that significantly less than a frame

http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

There are some that don't way a ton, but those are like the 13-inch ones with the VCR built in. And those suck.

EDIT: Disregard pls accidental post

 

[Bismo Funyuns]

The real problem is finding a CRT that does not weigh a ton x.x

There are some that don't way a ton, but they are like 13 inches.

 

[Massive]

Most gaming monitors tend to have about 9+ ms of display lag. I wouldn't call that significantly less than a frame

http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

By the measurement system used in the input lag database, CRTs have 8.3 ms of lag.

LCDs are totally acceptable, especially those in the "Excellent" category as they will only end up with a few ms of additional delay after conversion with an acceptable device. Please stop spreading misinformation.

@ MrRakso look into an HDMI/Component upscaler like this, this, or this and use a monitor or TV with an "excellent" rating in the display lag database and you will be just fine.

 

[Blackavar]

No, you won't be, they all lag and it's very noticeable.

 

[Racuncai]

By the measurement system used in the input lag database, CRTs have 8.3 ms of lag.

LCDs are totally acceptable, especially those in the "Excellent" category as they will only end up with a few ms of additional delay after conversion with an acceptable device. Please stop spreading misinformation.

exactly, there´s tons of false information about hdtv's and lag, CRT´s are obsolete and "we need to move on" please read this and know better about this stuff.

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2v55u8/melee_hd_important_new_update_272014/

 

[Roukiske]

I in no way have any numbers to go off of, but I feel as though gaming monitors have less lag than HD TV's. I play on a gaming monitor when recording and honestly me and my friends don't notice a difference. I'm not some super technical top player though :[

 

[Spak]

exactly, there´s tons of false information about hdtv's and lag, CRT´s are obsolete and "we need to move on" please read this and know better about this stuff.

That said, CRTs are still dirt-cheap compared to some of the better gaming monitors, so asking people to bring their $10 portable CRT to a tournament vs bringing their $100 monitor to the tournament would be much easier and people would be less worried about stolen/damaged property. I'd say that old 80's-00's CRTs (without any extra image processing built in) would be better than a whole bunch of differently-branded LCDs that all have different response times. That might throw people off when switching from setup to setup.

This could be solved, however, if the tournament being attended had a list of accepted monitors for setups or if they decide to provide all of the setups for the contestants.

 

[Racuncai]

in local tournaments due the prize obiously is not an option, but for really big ones like evo, they can provide the monitors, players only need to provide part of the setups.

I'm not asking to change everything tomorrow, it will be a slow at a slow pace.

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

lol this thread

me and my friend are trying to get into the competitive scene, i heard that we needed a CRT tv, but where i live, finding one is almost next impossible,

Yes, you need a CRT, doesn't matter which kind, although that's weird that you can't find anything. You sure you tried goodwill/craigslist/the side of the street, etc.

For the answer, CRTs basically have "no lag" in comparison to the same setup on any other kind of tv. What the other posters above are arguing depends on the setup and types of cables/converters used (that are different from the console's own cables). That said, what Massive said is true and is actually pretty important to the discussion: if you wanted to go the HDTV route, it's certainly work but you'd have to pay more.

By the measurement system used in the input lag database, CRTs have 8.3 ms of lag.

LCDs are totally acceptable, especially those in the "Excellent" category as they will only end up with a few ms of additional delay after conversion with an acceptable device. Please stop spreading misinformation.

@ MrRakso look into an HDMI/Component upscaler like this, this, or this and use a monitor or TV with an "excellent" rating in the display lag database and you will be just fine.

 

[Vorde]

I have a 32 inch JVC CRT with Component (only supports interlaced though) which is amazing, and I also have a BenQ Gaming Monitor connected through Avermedia LGP, so overall about 11ms of lag. Now going from setup to setup it is noticeable, however after playing 20-30 mins on the LCD, once you get adjusted, the timing feels the same. I'm able to perform all my tech and such on both TVs identical

 

[bearsfan092]

It *is* possible to get comparable lag on a few specific monitors (BenQ and ASUS both have specific models that work well. Not all models will work equally well so choose carefully) using an Avermedia or the Sewell Wii-HDMI converter. There are some "public" (hard to find) numbers crunched on lag specifically in the Melee context. At one point they were intended to be published on MIOM if I recall correctly, but the Avermedia thing caused such a ****storm (image drop out issue at the time) that no one really touched it.

I can find the numbers again, but basically the numbers indicated that if you were complaining about it, you were being a wuss about it. Most of the perceived difference comes from the fact that it's a progressive image instead of the interlaced one we're all used to.

Just to illustrate, there's like 8 ms or whatever lag on a typical CRT. You play on lag, you're just used to it (if humans can feel that idk). A frame is 16.67 ms. If the input lag on an LCD is 10-11 ms, it's a 3 ms differential from the CRT experience (I think the numbers were listed in terms of differentials). If there are only like 1-2 ms differentials, any complaints are because of the user, not the machine.

EDIT: Before people ask, https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/195A1jtVAKUrzmnrP9xOxryHx1pa_9_ng0yFWB03yV_o/edit#gid=1

Of particular interest are any entries with "LGP" and Sewell. The Sewell converter it refers to is 30 bucks and can be bought at http://www.amazon.com/Sewell-Wii-HDMI-Converter-480p/dp/B0072JP56G (buy through smashboards etc etc)

 

[Massive]

I had not seen any numbers on the seawell or neoya adapters, anecdotally they had always felt as good as the LGP. It is very good to see corroboration. Thanks for posting!