Shaeman111
Smash Ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQpC9z4btFU
How can I improve? What should I be doing, and what am I doing correctly?
yadda yadda
How can I improve? What should I be doing, and what am I doing correctly?
yadda yadda
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Critique S-Man's Fox (against Marth)
- Thread starter Shaeman111
- Start date
Sage Osaka
Smash Ace
lumpy here.
this thread looks familiar... but i suck and can't help. lol
this thread looks familiar... but i suck and can't help. lol
mastermoo420
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
- Messages
- 726
I'm not good at this game much/at all, but I can still offer advice in a third-party perspective. I'm just going to be typing this as I watch:
- L-cancel. I'm sure anyone who started watching noticed that considering the first thing shown was a FJ (or double-jump'd; idr) d-air that wasn't L-canceled. Shine after every aerial since Marths love to shield-grab. JC grab after shines, if they shield the shine, is great.
- Don't get too predictable. The wall-jump > side-B was a nice mind game and it worked twice, but try not to repeat things too much
- Marth is light so I'm pretty sure jab > u-smash works well. You tried it, but the smash followed up too late, I think.
- If you're going to hang on the ledge, do some stall stuff or at least drop down and jump back to get some invincibility frames.
- Try not to dash-attack too much; it's a great move, yeah, but doing it into a shield will lead into easy shield-grab. Most times, a SHFFL'd nair (when you can) is going to be as good as or better than a dash attack.
- Punish airdodges with smash attacks. P: You coulda easily killed when he had 140% or so.
- Needs more lasers. P:
- You don't always have to FireFox to the ledge. It makes it more predictable in any case.
- Wavedash more. I saw you roll right into a grab.
But I really liked your u-throw > u-airs early on and the edge-guard on Marth's second stock.
And most of these are small errors that might only occur just once; I'm just pointing them out as I see them. And just a reminder: stay off the platforms! D: I mean, you did a good job, but just reminding you.
- L-cancel. I'm sure anyone who started watching noticed that considering the first thing shown was a FJ (or double-jump'd; idr) d-air that wasn't L-canceled. Shine after every aerial since Marths love to shield-grab. JC grab after shines, if they shield the shine, is great.
- Don't get too predictable. The wall-jump > side-B was a nice mind game and it worked twice, but try not to repeat things too much
- Marth is light so I'm pretty sure jab > u-smash works well. You tried it, but the smash followed up too late, I think.
- If you're going to hang on the ledge, do some stall stuff or at least drop down and jump back to get some invincibility frames.
- Try not to dash-attack too much; it's a great move, yeah, but doing it into a shield will lead into easy shield-grab. Most times, a SHFFL'd nair (when you can) is going to be as good as or better than a dash attack.
- Punish airdodges with smash attacks. P: You coulda easily killed when he had 140% or so.
- Needs more lasers. P:
- You don't always have to FireFox to the ledge. It makes it more predictable in any case.
- Wavedash more. I saw you roll right into a grab.
But I really liked your u-throw > u-airs early on and the edge-guard on Marth's second stock.
And most of these are small errors that might only occur just once; I'm just pointing them out as I see them. And just a reminder: stay off the platforms! D: I mean, you did a good job, but just reminding you.
short version:
1. cant CC fox's dair. (especially important when opponent is low %)
2. use that ledge invincibility. YOUR INVINCIBLE!
3. SPACING SPACING SPACING!
4. lasers
long version:
1. cant CC fox's dair. (especially important when opponent is low %)
2. use that ledge invincibility. YOUR INVINCIBLE!
3. SPACING SPACING SPACING! i suggest watching pro foxes and pay attention to their spacing. btw despite popular belief the short hoppenest, double laserinest, flashy tech skill, infinite inverse drill shininest foxes are NOT the proest foxes. foxes that win consistently against a variety of other players and characters are pro foxes. honestly i think mango has the best space animal spacing (no pun intended).
4. you gotta keep moving. this goes along with the spacing thing. you gotta keep dash dancing around and stuff and a side note/kinda my personal opinion, you should try to cover less ground at a time in general. in other words move around a lot and move fast but around only in a smallish area at a time instead of around the whole map. the main reason is to avoid the full on run animation in favor of the dash animation.
5. related to both 3 and 4: you can avoid being baited so much by leaving yourself with more mobility options. try to be moving away from your opponent when you attack so that if you miss you are safer. also if you didnt manage to get as close as you would have liked before attacking, retreat instead of attacking anyway and just hoping it works out. if you dont play his games, he will have to start attacking you and then its your turn to bait him.
6. if your opponent plays a persistent run away and bait game and refuses to make himself open by attacking, you can keep you distance and laser until he feels forced to get close and attack.
1. cant CC fox's dair. (especially important when opponent is low %)
2. use that ledge invincibility. YOUR INVINCIBLE!
3. SPACING SPACING SPACING!
4. lasers
long version:
1. cant CC fox's dair. (especially important when opponent is low %)
2. use that ledge invincibility. YOUR INVINCIBLE!
3. SPACING SPACING SPACING! i suggest watching pro foxes and pay attention to their spacing. btw despite popular belief the short hoppenest, double laserinest, flashy tech skill, infinite inverse drill shininest foxes are NOT the proest foxes. foxes that win consistently against a variety of other players and characters are pro foxes. honestly i think mango has the best space animal spacing (no pun intended).
4. you gotta keep moving. this goes along with the spacing thing. you gotta keep dash dancing around and stuff and a side note/kinda my personal opinion, you should try to cover less ground at a time in general. in other words move around a lot and move fast but around only in a smallish area at a time instead of around the whole map. the main reason is to avoid the full on run animation in favor of the dash animation.
5. related to both 3 and 4: you can avoid being baited so much by leaving yourself with more mobility options. try to be moving away from your opponent when you attack so that if you miss you are safer. also if you didnt manage to get as close as you would have liked before attacking, retreat instead of attacking anyway and just hoping it works out. if you dont play his games, he will have to start attacking you and then its your turn to bait him.
6. if your opponent plays a persistent run away and bait game and refuses to make himself open by attacking, you can keep you distance and laser until he feels forced to get close and attack.
sigh just a couple more:
1. dont jab anyone if they are on the ground. a good player will usually CC the jab and F you up. even if you do the full jab combo, theres enough delay between the second jab and the kicks for someone to CC->grab etc.
2. nair has the best shield stun/landing lag ratio or all fox's aerials. dair i think is the worst (almost no shield stun). keep this in mind when attacking someone's shield. and i know back in the day it was cool watching a pro falco do dair-shine-dair-shine etc against shield but these days even if you have the tech skill to do that with fox (even nair-shine-nair-shine), it just is NOT safe. if you shine against marth's shield, there are only two safe things you can do: JC grab or JC shine. even nair i dont think is fast enough if the marth times the shield grab perfectly (its pretty **** close either way so throw in a little human error and imo its NOT safe). long story short is, it is almost never a good idea to purposely attacking someone's shield. (almost never)
1. dont jab anyone if they are on the ground. a good player will usually CC the jab and F you up. even if you do the full jab combo, theres enough delay between the second jab and the kicks for someone to CC->grab etc.
2. nair has the best shield stun/landing lag ratio or all fox's aerials. dair i think is the worst (almost no shield stun). keep this in mind when attacking someone's shield. and i know back in the day it was cool watching a pro falco do dair-shine-dair-shine etc against shield but these days even if you have the tech skill to do that with fox (even nair-shine-nair-shine), it just is NOT safe. if you shine against marth's shield, there are only two safe things you can do: JC grab or JC shine. even nair i dont think is fast enough if the marth times the shield grab perfectly (its pretty **** close either way so throw in a little human error and imo its NOT safe). long story short is, it is almost never a good idea to purposely attacking someone's shield. (almost never)
Siglemic
Smash Journeyman
i disagree
especially if you're pressuring from behind
Sage Osaka
Smash Ace
against marth, (especially one not good at shield tilting when being shield pressured) it is a very good idea to attack his shield (especially from the back) because his hitboxes poke out of his shield a lot, even moreso when you wear his shield down a bit. if your shield pressure is almost perfect, and you are attacking him from the back, you will more than likely shield poke him.