http://youtu.be/A5KLwfW4Iyw
I cannot get past this guy's dk. Any general tips or tips for the matchup?
I cannot get past this guy's dk. Any general tips or tips for the matchup?
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Critique my ****ty Marth
- Thread starter 52pickup
- Start date
Quadobot
Smash Rookie
It seems like you have decent control over Marth in general. Your gameplan was just poopy. You resorted to shffling aerials along the edges of the stage while the DK played the dash dancing game and waited for openings in your wall of aerials.
You were also at some points just spamming Dtilts. Once again, its easy to find an opening and punish that. I think you should try and combine your shffling, dash dancing, Dtitls, etc.. to find openings against the other player. Use those things as a way to impose a threat, not try and keep the other player out.
You were also at some points just spamming Dtilts. Once again, its easy to find an opening and punish that. I think you should try and combine your shffling, dash dancing, Dtitls, etc.. to find openings against the other player. Use those things as a way to impose a threat, not try and keep the other player out.
Nesious
Smash Rookie
I'm not terribly experienced, but to me it seemed like you were letting him have all the stage control and didn't challenge him at all for it, instead just chilling at the edge with SHFFL'd Nairs until he came at you. He completely dictated the flow of the match and when/where/how exchanges happened. The few times you did challenge him, things generally went well (although you seemed inexperienced vs characters of that weight/DK in particular), but sometimes you just went full Falcon and just Fair'd straight past him and got smacked with a Bair/got grabbed (don't do that! 
).
I think if you can aggress but still retain your full spacing things will go a lot better for you (you certainly have a great grasp of your tech skill and general mechanics already). Also just mixing up your approaches/approach timings would help a lot with tacking on the percent you need to finish a DK off. Many times you would try to approach with a Short Hop Fair after he missed an aerial but just come in too late, leading to him just WD'ing back and going for another aerial/grab. If you had waited like a second more he probably would've thrown out another aerial that you were actually prepared for and you could properly punish him, instead of just rushing to punish and missing it.
You seemed to quit on using your JC grabs on anywhere but the very beginning of stocks, which I think could've been quite useful in a lot of the situations since it takes less time to reach over a large horizontal distance than a SH Fair (assuming they're standing slightly out of Fair range), and maybe overused Nair where other options would've actually had a guaranteed hit (Nair only seemed to work if he ran into it while trying to hit you, and at least imo isn't that great of an option in Neutral compared to the rest of Marth's moveset).
Random Notes/Maybe a Summary: Dash dance more and abuse your spacing, get used to DK's odd weight so you don't Falcon at him then just get grabbed since he doesn't fly like Pichu and barely staggers (if at all). Don't be afraid you move when you SHFFL, doing it in place doesn't really gain you much, especially vs. someone as space-conscious as that DK, and usually leaves you open to getting rekt immediately after. Grab more and just try to get some safe percent by being decently aggressive so you can actually start getting easy combos off of even a non tipped Fair. Also... you have really solid combos when your enemy's are above you, but you never really got him above you with UAirs/UThrows/UTilts, even though Battlefield's a pretty great stage for these sorts of combos. If you can get him up on the ledge above you on Yoshi's/Battlefield, you can get the wonder combo of UTilt -> UTilt -> USomething -> probably an aerial and probably get a stock or at least like 50+%.
I might have missed a few things (Easter is hectic) but I hope this helps somewhat!
).I think if you can aggress but still retain your full spacing things will go a lot better for you (you certainly have a great grasp of your tech skill and general mechanics already). Also just mixing up your approaches/approach timings would help a lot with tacking on the percent you need to finish a DK off. Many times you would try to approach with a Short Hop Fair after he missed an aerial but just come in too late, leading to him just WD'ing back and going for another aerial/grab. If you had waited like a second more he probably would've thrown out another aerial that you were actually prepared for and you could properly punish him, instead of just rushing to punish and missing it.
You seemed to quit on using your JC grabs on anywhere but the very beginning of stocks, which I think could've been quite useful in a lot of the situations since it takes less time to reach over a large horizontal distance than a SH Fair (assuming they're standing slightly out of Fair range), and maybe overused Nair where other options would've actually had a guaranteed hit (Nair only seemed to work if he ran into it while trying to hit you, and at least imo isn't that great of an option in Neutral compared to the rest of Marth's moveset).
Random Notes/Maybe a Summary: Dash dance more and abuse your spacing, get used to DK's odd weight so you don't Falcon at him then just get grabbed since he doesn't fly like Pichu and barely staggers (if at all). Don't be afraid you move when you SHFFL
, doing it in place doesn't really gain you much, especially vs. someone as space-conscious as that DK, and usually leaves you open to getting rekt immediately after. Grab more and just try to get some safe percent by being decently aggressive so you can actually start getting easy combos off of even a non tipped Fair. Also... you have really solid combos when your enemy's are above you, but you never really got him above you with UAirs/UThrows/UTilts, even though Battlefield's a pretty great stage for these sorts of combos. If you can get him up on the ledge above you on Yoshi's/Battlefield, you can get the wonder combo of UTilt -> UTilt -> USomething -> probably an aerial and probably get a stock or at least like 50+%.I might have missed a few things (Easter is hectic
) but I hope this helps somewhat!
MarthZ
Smash Journeyman
at 0:35 you could've dash dance grabbed instead of jumping and trying to go for the Dair or Fair you should'nt bait with nair if you don't know what the do once he comes also you need to space marth when your oponent catches the ledge you should'nt be exactly right next to them and hope there invinsibility frames go out and dair you also need to fast fall the Fair because they can capitalize and when the fast fall doesn't work you can directional air dodge away also when you do dair from ledge L cancel its marths move with the most recovery time also when he catches you in the shield and hes spacing enough so marth can grab or at the end of his attack up b out of shield is a good option also fountain of dreams wasn't a smart pick because once you get a grab up throw you can't forward smash if the platform goes down Marth's story and FD are better options
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
You have good ideas and seem to understand hitboxes reasonably well. Your biggest problem and the main reason why you're constantly getting outplayed in neutral is your lack of REACTION.
Focus as hard as possible and watch your opponent whenever he does any move or movement. You were spacing a lot of aerials and d-tilts, but it looked like you were doing so somewhat mindlessly and you actually put up walls instead of going on the offensive at times when the DK whiffed moves. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5KLwfW4Iyw&feature=youtu.be#t=4m33s
DK threw out 4 bairs and did 3 empty short hops. One of them you were forced to shield, but if you had paid careful attention to his spacing afterward, you could have simply dropped shield and grabbed him after he whiffed his aerial. You could also have simply waited for him to land and hit him with short hop fair or d-tilt.
On the whole, you don't seem to know how to land you grabs. Try to abuse the long range on Marth's grab and the fast dash startup animation that makes him so dominant in the neutral game.
Dash dancing destroys DK since his ground speed is slow, he doesn't have a useful dash attack to discourage you from dash dancing, and his bair is pretty easy to control with dash dancing as well. You can try to tech chase with d-throw or f-throw OR you can u-throw and try to trap him above you with uairs. This latter option requires some experience and skill to execute, but it's definitely worth attempting on a big fat character who is easy to hit in the air.
Let me know if you have any questions concerning specific situations, and I'll do my best to help you address those problems.
Focus as hard as possible and watch your opponent whenever he does any move or movement. You were spacing a lot of aerials and d-tilts, but it looked like you were doing so somewhat mindlessly and you actually put up walls instead of going on the offensive at times when the DK whiffed moves. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5KLwfW4Iyw&feature=youtu.be#t=4m33s
DK threw out 4 bairs and did 3 empty short hops. One of them you were forced to shield, but if you had paid careful attention to his spacing afterward, you could have simply dropped shield and grabbed him after he whiffed his aerial. You could also have simply waited for him to land and hit him with short hop fair or d-tilt.
On the whole, you don't seem to know how to land you grabs. Try to abuse the long range on Marth's grab and the fast dash startup animation that makes him so dominant in the neutral game.
Dash dancing destroys DK since his ground speed is slow, he doesn't have a useful dash attack to discourage you from dash dancing, and his bair is pretty easy to control with dash dancing as well. You can try to tech chase with d-throw or f-throw OR you can u-throw and try to trap him above you with uairs. This latter option requires some experience and skill to execute, but it's definitely worth attempting on a big fat character who is easy to hit in the air.
Let me know if you have any questions concerning specific situations, and I'll do my best to help you address those problems.
Last edited:
Thanks everyone for the posts, they're very helpful!
I played against him again just yesterday and I did a lot better (unfortunately it wasn't recorded this time
). A lot of the critique that was posted boiled down to that I devolved into a very static gameplan and I never tried to challenge him or respond to his defense. Mixing up approaches and my own defense mechanisms plus dash dancing to try to weave around his back airs proved to be very helpful! It was close but he ended up sealing the deal with an upthrow up-air ending the game with both of us at the exact same %'s.
I played against him again just yesterday and I did a lot better (unfortunately it wasn't recorded this time
). A lot of the critique that was posted boiled down to that I devolved into a very static gameplan and I never tried to challenge him or respond to his defense. Mixing up approaches and my own defense mechanisms plus dash dancing to try to weave around his back airs proved to be very helpful! It was close but he ended up sealing the deal with an upthrow up-air ending the game with both of us at the exact same %'s.
Dandy_here
Smash Journeyman
If you had held stage control/challenged him for center stage, things would have gone your way. Also, don't spam aerials in place, that's easily punishable. Make sure you aren't being pushed away from center stage of fear from getting hit, spacing is going to be key.
Movement was solid, but try doing more wavelands and practice doing things out of a waveland.
You got some good punishes in, but dk's recovery is sh*t, so you can easily just fair him or f smash, and if you are feeling brave, going out for a neutral b doesn't hurt.
Movement was solid, but try doing more wavelands and practice doing things out of a waveland.
You got some good punishes in, but dk's recovery is sh*t, so you can easily just fair him or f smash, and if you are feeling brave, going out for a neutral b doesn't hurt.