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Creating Clear Restrictions for Controller Mod Designs

iFailed

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
8
The debate and controversy currently raging through the community about controller mods has piqued my interest in forming a concise rule. You all as a community should do what you can to preserve the integrity of Melee, but this should never be your primary concern over the welfare of your players. However, I believe there is a way that you would be able to satisfy most people on both sides of the argument. It would also be quite convenient for your organizers to have something that could be easily referenced for setting the rules regarding controllers in their tournaments. I hope that those of you with a little more community participation than I do, compose your own rules based on what I’ve been able to work out.

The majority of the community seems to be behind Hax$’s controller mod and against a future of cheating macro controllers. Since the main concern of the mod is that it would create a dangerous precedent for abuse, a distinction must be made, and I believe that an unyielding distinction can be made.

As it is, the validity of your Melee gear seems to be up to human judgement. Unfortunately, that sort of arbitration will eventually invite controllers into your ranks that very few of you would accept as legitimate. So, it is very important that the wording in your law leaves as little to interpretation as possible.

This is what I’ve come up with so far:


  • Each input set may provide at most, one static bufferable output set, where the number of outputs in the output set does not exceed the number of analog modifiers in the input state set.
  • An output may not be assigned to an analog unit with more input states than those which are present on the base model’s analog units responsible for that output.


Believe it or not, everything written after the second comma (the first 12 words) exists to prevent mash-out-of-shield abuse. I’ll explain the wording.

The “static bufferable output set” is a single group of outputs which can be offset by a single timer, all of which is static, meaning the outputs and the timer will never change given that input set. While buffers (timers) are utilized in the creation of macros, these rely on either multiple timers and sets, or they satisfy the 1-1 rule by computing dynamic values of the output set and/or timers. While it certainly would be much easier to say there should be no buffers at all, they are actually necessary to correct some inconsistencies.

An input set is the player physically changing the state of an analog device on the controller (such as depressing and releasing a button or moving a stick), which may take into consideration the “modifiers”, or physical state of the other analog units (such as whether or not another button is being held down).

For example, if I have buttons 1 2 and 3, that each individually output the commands “1”, “2”, and “3” respectively, when pressed, it would be legal to make button 3 output “4” when buttons 1 and 2 are being held down as modifiers. It would not be legal for the output to instead be “3”, “4”, “5”, and “6” as the number of outputs (4 total) exceeds the number of analog modifiers (3 total).

It is my belief that having another button for a function is always preferable to relying on modifiers to achieve that function. So there is really no harm in granting a group of outputs to be assigned to an input set, so long as it does not make mashing easier. For example, a controller with only 4 buttons like the Falcon Box actually has 2(2^4-2) = 28 possible input sets if I’m not mistaken, if you keep in mind that releasing a button is also considered a press. This can iron out the innate disadvantages of using these types of controllers and still get your perfect mangles.

The generally accepted “1-to-1” rule is actually very exploitable. For example, I could have a “M” button which I mash as quickly as possible in order to perform a macro which requires equal or fewer total inputs than the number times I mash. The importance of 1-to-1 really only exists for preventing an overwhelming number of inputs like an instant mash out of grab. The main prohibition of cheating is the prevention of dynamic outputs, that is, a button press set should always cause the exact same outputs to happen at the same time, every time.

The second part exists to prevent the creation of mash-out-of-grab cranks and the like. An analog unit is a moving part that must be a set distance away from other units (say, 2mm). Buttons are toggles, meaning they only have two analog states. A stick, on the other hand, could have thousands. Under this rule, you can’t assign an output which normally comes from a button on the GCC to a stick, because a stick is one analog unit with more input states than a button, but you could still assign a stick-based output to a button, as done on a device like the B0xx and smash box.

I wish you the best of luck at mending the rift and at getting made up as quickly as possible for the sake of equipment designers and the health of their customers, but also to be very careful to create something without oversights as probably exist in this draft, so that it does not need to be changed.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
Notches for perfect wd should have never been allowed imo. We simply have no governing body overseeing legality. When Kadano introduced shield drop notches, I saw that as sensible. But almost immediately, and with no opposition or official discussion, the philosophy of "either all modifications made to the gate are allowed, or none are" was adopted, assuming that all modifications made to the gate are created equal. And that is just referring to location of notches. How about depth, width, and shape? It would be implausible to ban certain sized notches and not others, so when you decide to allow notches (although it was never decided, it just happened), you allow notches of all sizes and shapes.

Watch this video: https://youtu.be/82s-istCVug

I messed up on the right side because I hadn't notched a controller in over a year and I did a rough quick job in order to make the video. My tech is also rusty, luigi is not my main, and this was a one-and-done recording (never started over). In practice and with the right side as good as the left side,I virtually wouldn't miss. I first notched a controller in 2007. I may have been the first ever. It became obvious to me early on that the notch has a stronger influence on the angle you achieve than does your own accuracy. Watch that video and tell me if you think that should be legal.

Perfect wd angle hack is not legit. What are players missing out on by perfect wd not being easy? In how many situations will it matter whether you get a very long wd versus a perfect one? People are way too caught up on that one particular angle. The vast majority of wd oos's and waveshines work with a long wd, it doesn't have to be absolutely perfect. As it is, if you're good at wavedashing you have access to these punishes and neutral options. If perfect wd is made significantly easier, players who aren't good at wavedashing suddenly have access not only to good wavedashes, but the perfect one, consistently. This is how it takes skill out of the game. It makes people artificially good at wavedashing. I am fine with the other fixes. I draw the line at making tech easier. It's not a controller inconsistency issue. They should hack the game instead of the controller as well. That would just make virtually all controllers equally functional across the board. The motive behind the perfect wd hack is to shoehorn the b0xx into legality. The b0xx needs to have a stick to to be legal. Superhuman SDI, superhuman mashing out of grab, and insanely easier access to perfect angles is not legit. People have to realize that the perfect wd angle is also the angle for maximum grounded ASDI distance for punish/evade, for ASDI grabbing a jab or tilt, or evading an aerial approach by forcing a cross up and making a bair oos possible. It is a very desirable angle in melee and people seem to be oblivious to the fact that it's more than just for perfect wd and firefox angles.

The way it is now, the better you are at wavedashing, the better wavedashes you achieve. We are suggesting changing that to "pretty much anyone can get the longest possible wavedash". We should all think about this.
 
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iFailed

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
8
I think I came at this subject a lot more liberally than most would have. Having TO's provide both controllers and a GC mod to remove the discrepancies would be the absolute best way to ensure everybody plays on a near-perfectly level playing field. But that comes at a much steeper cost to TO's for that equipment, especially if Nintendo were to drop sponsorship of an event due to the copies of Melee being modded. I, for one, don't believe that being able to do perfectly consistent angles is that much of a problem. Warping your controller to be able to always get a perfect WD may not be as practical as you'd think, as it undoubtedly changes the ways you can move the stick. There's quite a few situations where you'd want to shorten your wavedash; you're mod has just shifted the dexterity around, not removed it.

And if we want players to bring their own equipment, but have it pass some sort of inspection to determine if it's legal, then we're basically back to square one of the whole arbitration issue.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
I, for one, don't believe that being able to do perfectly consistent angles is that much of a problem.
Accuracy with the stick is the most important skill in the game. The perfect wd angle is the single most desired angle in the game. This is absolutely meta-changing. We make the game less competitive when we remove skill. Tournaments are supposed to test player ability.

The slippery slope is real. The video I linked above highlights what is legal as soon as notches were made legal. Hybrid gate crossed a major line. We went from solving controller inconsistency problems to flat out making melee's tech easier/removing skill from the game. It started a trend that is nothing short of grimey from a competitive standpoint. If this is excepted, more skill will be removed from the game in the future.

Ask yourself, conceptually, why macros are banned. You'll find that the reasons apply to most other mods.

Controller variance/inconsistency is the problem. "Melee is too technically demanding" is not the problem.
 

iFailed

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
8
What about players who have hands that are too big/small to use a standard-sized GCC? What if anatomical differences cause you hand injuries while playing? What if you have a thumb deformity like Dan Avidan that lets you get those angles every time, or you wear hooked gloves or have robotic hands? I have always thought that macros were banned not because they gave you better tech skill, but because it would allow you to do things that were physically impossible to perform normally. If maintaining the integrity of tech skill is your goal, though, you will have to change the way you think about it in more concrete terms. "X should not be easier on your controller than it is on mine" is too abstract of a sentiment.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,536
Location
The back country, GA
What about players who have hands that are too big/small to use a standard-sized GCC? What if anatomical differences cause you hand injuries while playing? What if you have a thumb deformity like Dan Avidan that lets you get those angles every time, or you wear hooked gloves or have robotic hands? I have always thought that macros were banned not because they gave you better tech skill, but because it would allow you to do things that were physically impossible to perform normally. If maintaining the integrity of tech skill is your goal, though, you will have to change the way you think about it in more concrete terms. "X should not be easier on your controller than it is on mine" is too abstract of a sentiment.
Firstly, extremely rare cases should hold little bearing over determining legality over typical cases. Secondly, I am not afraid of change. A smashbox with a functional stick would help significantly with hand and wrist pain, solve the controller variance issue, and cater to the FGC. A lot of people simply don't like the risk/reward dynamic associated with going for a long wavedash. They want more reward and less risk because they feel everyone deserves it, whereas I feel only players good at wavedashing deserve it. A large chunk of newer, less informed players want to make changes that don't solve problems for a competitive atmosphere. Solving controller inconsistency issues makes the game more competitive. Making tech skill easier makes the game less competitive.
 

iFailed

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
8
Well I don't play competitive smash so I guess I've been overstating my opinion. Except the whole concrete rules part, but the solution to preventing sticks from being notched "unfairly" is probably not elegant; you'd essentially have to disqualify sticks based on strict conformation specs. The other route you could go is make rules regarding cardinals... but I can't really think of that logic atm
 

iFailed

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
8
From the research I've done, the perfect wavedash is 17 degrees below horizontal. A regular hexagon oriented with vertical vertices would have natural vertices as 30 degrees below horizontal, which is a degree difference of 13. That's slightly over halfway to perfect WD from the GCC's natural 45 degree vertices which are 28 degrees from perfect. Are any vertices closer than 28 degrees to perfect WD unacceptable?

Also, is it acceptable for there to be duplicates of buttons, or only one of each button that's on the GCC? Could I add A and B button grips like on a Steam controller, for example? If only one of each button is allowed, is there a minimum distance they would need to be between each other to prevent mash abuse, or would this be balanced by the increased risk of errors?
 
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