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Counterpick Stage Tricks

R.Kefka

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
28
Most people know MK's tricks on the neutral levels regarding his moves. He's got a lot of options because he has a lot of mobility. I figured that the counterpick levels, with their peculiar configurations, would also have a lot of neat tricks. I spent some time messing around, and this is what I found. There is a LOT of text here.

I gave a bunch of these tricks cool (or stupid, depending on your perspective) names because it's fun to do so. I don't really care if you use the names, but they're fun to shout.

I also don't claim credit for this stuff. I'm sure other people have found them before me, but it's nice to have them all in one place. Some of them are just using old tricks and noting where they apply. Hopefully, this may give people some ideas for counterpicks.

Warning: these tricks are kind of tough to describe. It's best if you just go into the stage and test them out for yourself. If I can find a way to upload videos, I'll record them.

I use some terms that some people might not be familiar with. Frenzy refers to MK's rapid A attack. SLoop is a term for his up+b, and halberding is canceling an up+b onto a platform so you have no lag. This is different from glide attack canceling, because it happens much faster and requires no extra input after hitting up+b. There is a thread about halberding with video accompaniment somewhere on this board. If you're still confused, find it and watch.

Lastly, I like to get a lot of information about the levels (see Skyworld for an example). It's probably more than you will ever need. The goal in giving you the information is just to help you understand the levels a bit better. Even if you don't know exact values, you will have a better intuitive understanding of how they work. This can give you an edge over opponents who don't practice on counterpick levels. Many people only practice on neutrals (which is a TERRIBLE idea), and this puts you at an advantage. Lastly, counterpick levels can kill you in dumb ways. Knowing little tidbits about them keeps that from happening.


Norfair

Staircasing: This technique uses the natural cancels of MK (or any character) to quickly ascend or descend the platforms using Norfair's edges. There are several ways you can do this.

Down+b: Let go of the edge and down+b up and away. You should catch on to the outside edge of the platform above you. You can also descend by dropping, and then hold straight towards the level. If you want to mix this up (so you don't get edgehogged), use other angles to land on the platforms instead.

You can also teleport to either the top left or top right platform from the central one with a single down+b.

Forward+b: Let go of the edge and forward+b downward and in. You will cancel onto the ledge below you. If you're on the edge of the bottom platform, you can forward+b up and away, and grab the edges of the top platforms.

Halberding: Drop off the edges and up+b facing any direction you want. You can cancel onto most of the platforms from a variety of heights and angles. There are too many to describe; just go into Norfair on training, and try it out. Cancel on edges, change the way you're facing, land on platforms... you have so many options with your up+b here, it's absurd.

Safety Drill: From the bottom platform, you can actually warp into the safety room when the lava flow is coming. Just use your forward+b from the bottom platform and aim for the bottom of the safety room. If you do it right, you will warp inside without ever opening the door. If you do it wrong, you'll poke the door, then warp inside. Either way, it's still pretty awesome.

Tunneling: Drop down, and use the drill beneath the central platform. If you angle up at the last moment, you can cancel and quickly grab the other edge of the central platform. You can easily sneak under

With all of these tricks at his disposal, MK can be nearly untouchable. Your ability to rise through the platforms with neutral+b also lets you hit people through shields. I think this may be one of Meta-Knight's strongest counterpicks. The nice part is that if you screw up any of your tricks, there's a chance the lava will save you.

Delfino Plaza

Note: Many of these tricks can also be performed on the Halberd as well. That's why I didn't cover that stage in here. Apply them as you see fit.

Riptide: Hover over an opponent stuck in the water, and chase them off the edge with repeated down-airs. You send them back into the water and can abuse the stun of down-airs and the water to chase them out to sea. It's extra mean if you footstool before each down-air.

I'll be honest, that one isn't really reliable. It's funny though, which is really what matters.

Coastal Storms: Use your tornado to rise through the middle of the stage. It's almost impossible to shield, and this lets you pressure the enemy regardless of where you are. Just float around under the level to make them nervous.

From that position, you can also halberd a lot.

Zelda Pirate Ship:

Up+b Cancels: You can cancel the SLoop in a lot of places here. If you do a standing up+b beneath the center platforms, you can quickly glide attack cancel. If you jump before doing an up+b, you'll get an automatic cancel on the top platform.

You can also abuse the characteristics of the left edge with your up+b. If you drop and move forward slightly, then up+b, you'll go through the level with your SLoop and then grab the edge again. This can be a good way to keep enemies from pressuring you on the edge.

When the ship crashes into the rocks, you can up+b and repeatedly grab its left edge. Just drop, and up+b facing whichever way you want. You'll loop around to grab the edge quickly.

Hull Boring: On either side hang from the edge, then let go. Forward+b into the side of the level, and it will push you back onto the edge when it finishes. You poke through the level doing this, and it's a great way to shield stab. If the enemy tries to edge-hog you, you can always angle up and go back onto the stage, so it's very safe. It's also irritating (most of these tricks are).

Down+b: You can also teleport through the left side of the level slightly. If you drop from the edge and down+b up and inward, you can teleport behind enemies quickly. This works really nicely with the teleport attack.

More forward+b stuff: When the dragon ship is on the right side of the level, you can be really mean. Sit inside of it, then forward+b into it; if you angle around the dragon, you will poke through and then quickly grab the main ship's edge. It's a great way to bug people if they're trying to edgeguard you.

Frigate Orpheon

There's not much here. You can use the side platform in its first form to up+b cancel from beneath. If you screw up, you can then glide under the level and survive anyhow, so it's relatively safe.

The second form also offers little tricks. If you land a grab on the moving platforms, down+throw. This can get you some suicide KOs, which are handy if you're ahead. What happens is you will dance on their head while the platform carries you both away. If they're at a higher percent, you can wait for a bit and back-throw when you're close to the edge, then return as normal.

Skyworld

There are edges everywhere. I can't even begin to talk about where to cancel because there are so many ways. Just mess around with your SLoop, and you'll find plenty on your own. The only thing to be wary of is that you can break the edge you may have planned to grab, and you'll SD. Don't do that.

Instead, I want to focus on the breakable floors. You should never have to worry about decayed moves here. When the enemy isn't nearby, spam down-tilt and up-air to refresh your decay.

Also, pay attention to when the platforms are about to break. If you break a platform that you're standing on, you will cancel the move instantly and have no lag. If you break your opponent's platform, he will fall down with no lag. Knocking an opponent off a platform and onto a cloud will put him in a falling animation, and you can sometimes get a free attack afterwards.

Here is some platform data for you:

8 down-tilts will break a platform.
4 front hits from your down-smash will break a platform.
3 back hits from your down-smash will break a platform.
2 neutral-airs will break a platform if you get both hits.
6 weak neutral-air hits will break a platform.
3 forward-smashes will break a platform.
7 up-airs will break a platform.
6 down-airs will break a platform.
19 hits from your frenzy will break a platform.
6 up-tilts will break a platform.
10 hits using only the first hit of your forward-tilt will break a platform.
8 hits using only the third hit of your forward-tilt will break a platform.
3 and 1/3 hits of the full f-tilt combo will break a platform.
5 up-smashes will break a platform.
5 strong up+b's (the beginning of the loop) will break a platform.
7 weak up+b's (at the top of the loop) will break a platform.
5 short tornados (all hits) will break a platform.
3 long tornados (all hits) will break a platform.
You can't damage a platform from beneath using your tornado. You have to hit above it, or to the side of it.

Platforms take 12 seconds to respawn after breaking.
If you hold down after breaking through a platform, you will fall through the cloud. This lets you follow up with surprise up+b's and tornados very quickly.

This is probably the best thing I've ever discovered. You can teleport through the bottoms of the platforms (without breaking them) using your drill rush. Forward+b beneath a platform, and angle it up as high as you can. You will crash into the platform from beneath, then reappear above it. Use this to shield stab people like crazy, and then shock them when you survive. If their shield survives, you cancel quickly, so you can down-smash or tornado right after.

This also means you

Note: you have to get the complete upwards movement with the drill in order to do this. Otherwise, you won't make it through the platform.

Summit

Not much to say here either. You can't grab the sides, so there aren't any neat edge cancels.

What you *can* do is down+b everywhere. The level is structured in a way that lets you teleport around rapidly. You can go around the platforms, come up through them... try it out.

Additionally, you can get a lot of halberds by looping around the center block. Varying heights and directions get varying results, so mess around a lot here.

Also, you can borrow a trick from Skyworld. If you down-smash the breakable portion, you can down-smash and then quickly do another move after it breaks. Furthermore, you can use the block to spam up-air against to reduce the decay on your other moves. You can get six hits worth of decay reduction against it, so it's very worth it.

Green Hill Zone

I don't think there's much to say here, other than neat tidbits about the level itself.

The middle part is breakable. I won't get full breaking data; all you need to know is it takes over thirty hits from a down-tilt to break them. If you can camp the checkpoint, use the opportunity to refresh all your moves by spamming down-tilt on the floor.

The breakable sections take 20 seconds to respawn. If you're inside of them when they respawn, they will pop you up (but do no damage).

There are no cool cancels to be done until the breakable parts are gone, then you can do your standard up+b tricks. You can, however, shield stab people effectively by drill rushing straight into the hill. The slope carries you up, but you hit low.

Hanenbow

Canceling is really hard here because your moves will cause the leaves to move, changing your aim. Learning the ins and outs of the leaves will take a lot of practicing on this level.

You can down+b everywhere. It's lots of fun. Just go up and around the platforms and have a blast.

There are only three grabbable edges on Hanenbow; the bottom right leaf, the bottom center leaf, and the right side of the bottom right leaf. Keep that in mind if you choose to drill rush or up+b anywhere.

The leaves slowly reorient themselves back to normal over time. Keep that in mind if you leave part of the stage alone for a long period of time.

If you want to have a ton of fun, frenzy on any of the leaves. It will go up and down like crazy as you hit it rapidly. The tornado will have a similar effect; in fact, you gain a lot of height quickly by using your tornado at the edge of a leaf. Once it rises to its peak, start mashing B.

Down-throwing also makes the leaves go nuts. This level is awesome.

The left leaves are a great place to get up-throw KO's and tornado KO's.

Distant Planet

Not much to say here. You can drill-rush cancel from the right edge to the slope on the left. Your down-throw on the left side is also really handy because it pushes the enemies into the slope. This can get them to miss a tech very easily, and you can follow up with dash attack.

Actually, one ridiculous combo (if they react poorly) is to down-throw, then run after them and up+b. You can do this very quickly, and it's very good at KO'ing them off the left side at low percents.

You probably didn't know this, but the monster has an edge on its body. If his mouth is open, you can grab onto his bottom lip. You probably want to use this only as a last resort though. He's very good at eating people, or so I hear.

Castle Siege

There's a very tricky SLoop cancel in the first form of this stage. On the left side, of you up+b to the *left* from beneath the lip of the level, you can cancel onto the left platform.

You can also halberd on the right side of the stage if you go really low, then up+b to the right.

The last hit of your drill rush can poke people through the sides, and then it will pop you up to grab the edge. I don't think this has much application, but it's cool to know.

The second form has breakable statues. Down-tilt and up-air them ferociously whenever you get the chance.

The third form is very, very lame. You do not want to try to halberd on the edges because the level tilts. This can ruin your aim, causing you to glide off the level or trap yourself beneath it.

The trickiest you can safely get is to glide underneath the main stage, then drill rush up the sides.

Green Greens

I don't know why people allow this level, but sometimes they do.

Sometimes you can trap people underneath blocks with down-tilts. This lets you rack up a lot of damage. Watch out though; sometimes bombs like to randomly fall and ruin your fun.

You can detonate bombs safely with the tip if your down-tilt, down-smash, forward-tilt, and forward-smash. The tilts require you to be very, very precise.

If you up+b or glide attack into the blocks, you can momentarily freeze yourself there. The stun will make your attack last a very long time.

You can halberd from beneath the blocks very easily, but bombs ruin your fun. Try not to abuse it too much.

Forward-throwing the enemy into bomb blocks detonates the bombs; if you're at the right distance, you will not get hit by the explosion. This is very painful.

I still hate this level.

Brinstar

This level is very good for MK, I believe. It's somewhat small, which mitigates his KO'ing problem. If forced into a bad recovery position, he can stall with his glide until the lava comes to save him. There are three breakable areas for reducing decay, and the numerous platforms give him many halberding options.

When the lava rises, let the enemy reach the top platform and jump around beneath him. Poke his shield with aerials, or rise up through with tornado.

Use the Delfino/Halberd strategy of hovering beneath the stage, then rising through with tornado. This lets you pressure the enemy no matter where you are on the level. An alternative option is to up+b through the level and cancel instantly on the main platform.

You can also break the middle instantly by rising through it with a tornado.

If you down-throw somebody on the breakable center of the stage, you can break it and drop them through it. You will pop up back on to the stage while they fall through; this is a very mean trick against grapple recovery characters. The level breaks apart, so the right edge goes far away from them. There is no ledge in the middle for them to grab, and this can gimp them at low percents.

When the lava rises, you can also be very aggressive with up+b edgeguards. If you miss the edge, you can just fall to the lava and bounce back up.

You can repeatedly drop from the edge and grab it with up+b as well. If the enemy tries to edgehog, just glide to the other side.

*

That's all I found. I hope you enjoy messing around. Remember; never let a counterpick stage catch you off guard.
 

Fire!

Smash Champion
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,049
Location
Seattle
NNID
Fire149
3DS FC
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Yeah, some of this stuff can be really handy

Thanks
 

EternalCrusade

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
485
Location
Oviedo, FL
Good read, good info, I've never been in a tournament where Distant Planet is counterpick but it's probably just a local thing. 95 percent of the time I counterpick Castle Siege ^_^
 
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