counter hit

[Phaiyte]

I think this game could be made even deeper by simply implementing a counter hit system. Basically if you get hit while you have an active hitbox out, you will suffer slightly more hit stun and/or certain moves can have slightly different properties on hit. The metagame would certainly make a giant shift for the better, overall creating more skilled players as time goes on. You'd be punished for just spamming buttons and rewarded for patience like other good fighting games. It allows every character to punish harder at the expense of being punished harder for bad actions.

 

[Xermo]

In a game that rewards a strong offense, adding a penalty for throwing out a hitbox and being hit instead would be a terrible thing. Both players are usually inputting attacks at the same time; every hit would have a drawback to it if yours didn't out-prioritize your opponents'.

 

[Phaiyte]

Play smart instead of just spamming buttons and you won't have that problem as much.

 

[Paradoxium]

If you're just spamming buttons you will still lose. And plus already have crouch cancelling

 

[SpiderMad]

You get more knockback if you're hit while ?charging? a Smash Attack IIRC

 

[Comatose]

Play smart instead of just spamming buttons and you won't have that problem as much.

Not every attack is thrown out with the intent to hit you know. Just cuz you're throwing out attacks that dont hit doesnt mean you're just mashing buttons or not playing smart. Look at HBox in melee, not all of his attacks hit, but he throws them out with the intent to keep the opponent away.

 

[Phaiyte]

Not every attack is thrown out with the intent to hit you know. Just cuz you're throwing out attacks that dont hit doesnt mean you're just mashing buttons or not playing smart. Look at HBox in melee, not all of his attacks hit, but he throws them out with the intent to keep the opponent away.

The same applies to footsies in SF3 3rd Strike, GG, BB, any other fighter in history. Counter hits still exist.

 

[Terotrous]

In high level play, pretty much every hit during neutral play is a counter hit, so the only effect it would have is increasing hitstun across the board.

 

[Vashimus]

While we're at it, we also should bring back the severe stale-move negation Brawl had on knockback. After all, you shouldn't be using your finishers in combos, so it allows more overall strategy and depth to the game, punishing people who use their attacks recklessly while rewarding those who make use of their attacks appropriately.

Limiting or punishing players for the sake of depth is not always the best decision from a design perspective. Counter-hits would just allow attacks to combo into other attacks way more effectively than they should thanks to the increased hitstun, and potentially lead to ridiculous damage-rackers at low percents for a lot of characters.

 

[SpiderMad]

The same applies to footsies in SF3 3rd Strike, GG, BB, any other fighter in history. Counter hits still exist.

There's no counter hit thing like that for 3s that me or my friend are aware of, the closest thing being Parrying a Jab/Strong/Fierce putting the opponent into 4/3/2 extra frames of freeze state beyond the standard 16 (which the Parrier goes through 16 as well). By the way I'd play you in GGPO/Supercade (though not for the next few days cus I messed up my arm)

Spoiler

<Mad}>: DangerOnTheRanger: Does GG have a mechanic that puts you into more hitstun if you get hit out of certain attacks?
<DangerOnTheRanger>: only fighting game that I *know* implements that mechanic is persona 4 arena
<Mad}>: DangerOnTheRanger: http://smashboards.com/threads/counter-hit.350628/#post-16501869
<BasedDantbot`>: Title: counter hit | Smashboards (at smashboards.com)
<DangerOnTheRanger>: as far as I know other fighting games with a counter-hit mechanic - SF4, blazblue, guilty, etc. - all either have a universal hitstun buff, or in blazblue's case, have certain attacks give more hitstun on a counter hit
<DangerOnTheRanger>: fatal counter attacks in blazblue, as they're called, give 3f more hitstun for every attack in the combo, as opposed to just the initial counterhit
<Mad}>: define universal hitstun buff
<DangerOnTheRanger>: in SF4 you get a certain extra amount of hitstun regardless of what attack the other guy was doing
<Mad}>: to discourage spamming stuff to zone people?
<DangerOnTheRanger>: no, I think the intent was to make frametraps more deadly
<The0x539>: wait
<The0x539>: is mayflash the kind to get for wiimote adapters?
<Mad}>: frametraps more deadly?
<The0x539>: I know it is for PC
<The0x539>: but wiiu?
<DangerOnTheRanger>: Mad}: if you counter-hit someone in SF4, you're usually getting 2x/3x more damage than if it was a regular hit
<DangerOnTheRanger>: certain combos are only possible on counter-hit
<DangerOnTheRanger>: heck, some characters - cammy and cody for example - are entirely built around getting that counterhit
<DangerOnTheRanger>: to my knowledge 3s doesn't have extra hitstun on counterhits

 

[Phaiyte]

If there's a way to play GGAC+R on GGPO I'd do that. I have a mad good Axl.

 

[SpiderMad]

If there's a way to play GGAC+R on GGPO I'd do that. I have a mad good Axl.

so no 3s ='(?

 

[PastLink]

While we're at it, we also should bring back the severe stale-move negation Brawl had on knockback. After all, you shouldn't be using your finishers in combos, so it allows more overall strategy and depth to the game, punishing people who use their attacks recklessly while rewarding those who make use of their attacks appropriately.

Limiting or punishing players for the sake of depth is not always the best decision from a design perspective. Counter-hits would just allow attacks to combo into other attacks way more effectively than they should thanks to the increased hitstun, and potentially lead to ridiculous damage-rackers at low percents for a lot of characters.

The problem with the original system is some moves staled too quickly. I wouldn't really be opposed to it if it were balanced out, it'd make people think more carefully. but to counteract it, the negative effects shouldn't be permanent, like it was in brawl. In brawl, over the course of the match, if you used your moves over a long match, you'd be screwed. but if you could go maybe two or three full seconds without using the move again so that it comes out fresh? i could get behind that.

 

[DrinkingFood]

The system we have in place now works just fine, there's no need to go additionally complicating what is supposed to be a relatively simple system only to yield an extraordinarily unpredictable change on the meta.

 

[Phaiyte]

so no 3s ='(?

I have it on PSN. By all means if I can run it on my computer I'd love to whip out my Urien and Q.

 

[NWRL]

I think it'd be interesting. And then I realized we have Frame 1 attack moves.

 

[PastLink]

I think it'd be interesting. And then I realized we have Frame 1 attack moves.

oh **** you're right. mission aborted.

 

[SpiderMad]

I have it on PSN. By all means if I can run it on my computer I'd love to whip out my Urien and Q.

Yeah, easiest way would be using Supercade with your PS3 controller plugged in as USB
http://damdai.com/supercade/
Do you have a skype? mine is james.madway