JcFerggy
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2015
- Messages
- 11
Hey everyone! I just want to preface this topic with the knowledge that I know that I am new on the forums, and that I have not earned anyones trust or reputation. With that said I'd like to say that I have been playing Smash since its release in 1999. I also have graduated college with a Game Design and Programing degree, just to say I'm not a young kid with some crazy idea. Anyway, onto the content of this post.
In playing Project M, and following the development of it, It would be fair to assume that one of the goals for the stages is to provide a competitive atmosphere while still giving each individual stage its own identity and gimmicks. This personally is one of the reasons I love Project M, as it opens up more stages to play on in contrast to the stages that are considered legal in tournaments for Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4.
I've spent the last few weeks thinking over what could be changed to the current stages that have yet to be altered, and with the additional bonus of the Alternate Stage Loader being introduced, I have come up with these mockups. Understand that I am borrowing some ideas here from many places including Brawl Minus, stages on Brawl Vault, and even the Omega Stages in Smash 4. Anyway, lets get started.
Luigi's Mansion
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I have a love-hate relationship with this stage. I really like the idea of the stage, but the execution is just done poorly. The fact that the pillars can stop projectiles and moves, combined that when the stage falls apart it changes the dynamic of the stage makes it one that I don't enjoy playing.
![]()
My idea here would be to make the pillars purely visual, leaving the stage always as a complete structure. After playing Brawl Minus's version, I feel that the middle platforms just clutter up the area. And if possible, it would be nice if the interior of the house was always visible, even when players are outside.
75m
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This stage is just a mess, even worse than New Pork City in my opinion. In Smash 4, they removed the walk offs on the right side of the stage, but even then it is a crazy miss-mash of flying hazards and awkward platforms.
![]()
This is the Brawl Minus version of the stage. It really does simplify the stage, but the conveyor on the left side if stood on for too long will KO you off the top.
![]()
My mock-up here uses the base from Smash 4, with two conveyors on each side, positioned so if you rode either to its destination, you would have a bit of buffer room to recover onto another platform without dying. Finishing it off is a platform in the center of the stage.
Brinstar
![]()
This picture is taken straight from Brawl Minus (I swear I'm not trying to be biased). For those who do not know, when the substance in the floor of the righter half of the stage is destroyed, instead of separating, it comes together to make a complete platform, after which it will return to normal. My only other idea with the stage is to remove the stringy bits attached to the left and right platform, allowing them to stay horizontal the whole time.
Frigate Orpheon
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I really like this stages hazard in theory, but having it flip to erratically can cause cheap deaths.
![]()
My idea would be to have it stay on the second transformation the whole time, while allowing the platforms from the left and right move in and out as usual. The black should still happen, as it is a staple of the level.
Castle Siege
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In previous versions of Project M, the second transformation of Castle Siege was removed. My guess would have been because of the walk off combined with the breakable statues that can eat projectiles.
![]()
My mock up here would remove the walk offs, and make the statues just background elements holding up the platforms. I would also remove the canopies on the sides for a clearer view of air fights.
Another quick note, on the 3rd transformation, would it be possible to prevent the rock from tilting back and forth and just keep it as a stationary platform?
Shadow Moses Island
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Shadow Moses is a cool stage, but with the walls that can allow players to abuse infinites and prevent horizontal kills, and the walk off once the towers are destroyed, it can really ruin the fun of some fights.
![]()
The simple solution that I came up with is just remove the towers and add pits to both sides of the level. This would still keep the unique platform placements, and with the Metal Gears still breaking through, along with the spotlights, the charm of the level would stay intact.
Halberd
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Halberd is already a legal stage in Brawl and Smash 4, but it still has some issues. Starting off in the level, there are walk offs to the left and right. More importantly, there are two different hazards when landing on the ship that can KO a player at a decent percent.
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My proposed solution to this would be to have the starting platform have pits on both sides, and when on the ship, disable the canon and claw hazard.
Green Hill
![]()
This picture is another one taken straight from Brawl Minus, but it shows how simple the change can be. Basically by adding pits on both sides of the level, you can remove the cheap kills of walks off, but preserve the unique slope and breakable floors. This version also added in a platform to the middle, and while I am not overly against it, I would suggest that it match the other platforms shown in the background of the level.
Pokemon Stadium 1
![]()
This stage is one of my favorites, and I assume it is for many others. It is also an iconic stage for Melee tournaments. But two of its transformations do not lend itself well to competitive play.
![]()
For all transformations, I will be overlaying the default layout in green so you can compare.
![]()
Grass: I would say this is nearly perfect. The right balance of platforms and open space to fight.
![]()
My only suggestion would be to make the ground completely flat, but even still, the transformation is fine as is.
![]()
Water: This is another fine stage. It has good sized platforms, and a slightly varied ground. The only issue I see with it is the windmill.
![]()
The change I would suggest is making the windmill a background element to aerial battles can flow easier on the left side of the stage. Maybe even a platform could be added to supplement it.
![]()
Fire: This is an interesting transformation. It plays well, but the wall that the tree makes can allow people to abuse infinites.
![]()
I would suggest making the tree a background element, and making a larger platform at the top of the tree. Other than that not much to say.
![]()
Rock: Everyones favorite transformation to hate. The stage is very cluttered with platforms making it hard to move, and the left side is blocked off with the giant rock wall.
![]()
I would remove the rock wall completely blending it into the rocks already in the background. Then I would remove all the platforms except the three I highlighted. This would allow players to move around freely, and the layout favoring the left side would mirror how the Water transformation favors the right.
Other thoughts: An idea I had would to make the transformations follow a certain order. Something like Grass -> Fire -> Water -> Rock. Mind you what stage you get when starting would be random, but then you would know what stage would be next in the order.
Spear Pillar
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Spear Pillar is a stage that relies heavily on stage hazards, allowing for some cheap kills. Reflecting that is the cave of life area in the middle, that can allow people to live on. The stage also can break apart too, making it a mess overall.
![]()
The obvious solution would be to make the Pokemon hazards purely visual. Next the cave in the center would be filled in, though I would not want the blast line move up to compensate. This would make the stage sort of taller, kind of like Fountain of Dreams.
WarioWare Inc.
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These two screenshots are of Brawl Minus (I swear, I'm REALLY trying not to be biased). For those who have not played it, the level starts out with the normal platform configuration, but after a minute or two, the platforms flash for a few seconds, then disappear to be placed in another orientation. I really like this idea as it prevents the stage from just being static, while at the same time removing the microgames that interrupt the flow.
Non-Project M Stages
These stages are not currently in Project M, but with the Alternate Stage Loader, they could be considered.
Pokemon Stadium 2
![]()
Like Pokemon Stadium 1, the neutral platform plays very well (So much so that its all there is in Project M). If Pokemon Stadium 2 was to come back, I'd like to see the neutral layout be reused in another stage as it is perfect to fight on and ranks up there with Battlefield and Fountain of Dreams. Anyway, in the following shots, the green bars are the normal layout for reference.
![]()
Ground: This transformation is not that bad, but the large mound of dirt on the stage interrupts the flow.
![]()
The easy fix would just be to remove the dirt pile. The other platforms are quite fine as is.
![]()
Ice: The actual layout of ice is fine, but the physics of the ice are, well, slippery.
![]()
My fix would just be to remove the ice physics from the transformation. I suppose you could keep it, but Id rather much want a full stage to fight with ice than a part of regular stage.
![]()
Electric: I'm quite saddened from this transformation. It looks really nice, but the treadmill floors ruin it for me.
![]()
I would remove the moving floors, and move that upper platform to the right to balance the area.
![]()
Flying: In brawl if you didn't think the floaty physics were bad enough, this transformation made it worse tenfold. Slowly floating around trying to attack your opponent was way more difficult than it should have been.
![]()
My fix would be remove the wind currents, and add a single platform in the center. My thinking is that we don't have a stage with a high neutral platform, and having one here would reflect on the flying aesthetic.
Mushroom Kingdom 1
![]()
Again, this is just a screenshot of Brawl Minus, but the idea is still good. In Smash 64, Melee, and Brawl (Though a sandy desert), the original look of the first Super Mario Bros has been represented. Although each version of the stage has had walk offs, this example here shows how the concept can look. The only issues with this implementation is the balance platforms are just moving platforms and do not fall when stood on for too long.
Mushroom Kingdom 2
![]()
Mushroom Kingdom 2 is a personal favorite because of my love for Super Mario Bros 2, but the stage itself is rather rough. The blast lines on the side are very close, and the hazards are more of a nuisance than anything else.
![]()
This concept here would have you fighting on a background of waterfalls. The logs would still come down the sides, and could even possibly happen on the outer left and right as well depending on how it played. Combining Mushroom Kingdom 1 & 2 into a slot with the ASL could make a good option.
Closing Thoughts
I really appreciate what the Project M Development team has given us, I really do. I don't want to come off as demanding or anything, please do not take it that way. I am merely providing some concepts with visual aid in the hopes that they are considered. I don't know everything, and have only been playing competitively for the last year, so don't take me as an expert, but also don't dismiss me as kid who thinks he has the answers for everything. I would personally love to get in contact with a dev, as I have more ideas rattling around, but these are the ones I had time to make today.
I suppose the TL;DR of it would be remove walk-offs from stages, nerf or remove stage hazards, and provide stage layouts that encourage flow, while at the same time leaving the spirit of the stages.
Thank you for your time. I would appreciate any feedback below about improving my ideas or otherwise.
In playing Project M, and following the development of it, It would be fair to assume that one of the goals for the stages is to provide a competitive atmosphere while still giving each individual stage its own identity and gimmicks. This personally is one of the reasons I love Project M, as it opens up more stages to play on in contrast to the stages that are considered legal in tournaments for Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4.
I've spent the last few weeks thinking over what could be changed to the current stages that have yet to be altered, and with the additional bonus of the Alternate Stage Loader being introduced, I have come up with these mockups. Understand that I am borrowing some ideas here from many places including Brawl Minus, stages on Brawl Vault, and even the Omega Stages in Smash 4. Anyway, lets get started.
Luigi's Mansion
I have a love-hate relationship with this stage. I really like the idea of the stage, but the execution is just done poorly. The fact that the pillars can stop projectiles and moves, combined that when the stage falls apart it changes the dynamic of the stage makes it one that I don't enjoy playing.
My idea here would be to make the pillars purely visual, leaving the stage always as a complete structure. After playing Brawl Minus's version, I feel that the middle platforms just clutter up the area. And if possible, it would be nice if the interior of the house was always visible, even when players are outside.
75m
This stage is just a mess, even worse than New Pork City in my opinion. In Smash 4, they removed the walk offs on the right side of the stage, but even then it is a crazy miss-mash of flying hazards and awkward platforms.
This is the Brawl Minus version of the stage. It really does simplify the stage, but the conveyor on the left side if stood on for too long will KO you off the top.
My mock-up here uses the base from Smash 4, with two conveyors on each side, positioned so if you rode either to its destination, you would have a bit of buffer room to recover onto another platform without dying. Finishing it off is a platform in the center of the stage.
Brinstar
This picture is taken straight from Brawl Minus (I swear I'm not trying to be biased). For those who do not know, when the substance in the floor of the righter half of the stage is destroyed, instead of separating, it comes together to make a complete platform, after which it will return to normal. My only other idea with the stage is to remove the stringy bits attached to the left and right platform, allowing them to stay horizontal the whole time.
Frigate Orpheon
I really like this stages hazard in theory, but having it flip to erratically can cause cheap deaths.
My idea would be to have it stay on the second transformation the whole time, while allowing the platforms from the left and right move in and out as usual. The black should still happen, as it is a staple of the level.
Castle Siege
In previous versions of Project M, the second transformation of Castle Siege was removed. My guess would have been because of the walk off combined with the breakable statues that can eat projectiles.
My mock up here would remove the walk offs, and make the statues just background elements holding up the platforms. I would also remove the canopies on the sides for a clearer view of air fights.
Another quick note, on the 3rd transformation, would it be possible to prevent the rock from tilting back and forth and just keep it as a stationary platform?
Shadow Moses Island
Shadow Moses is a cool stage, but with the walls that can allow players to abuse infinites and prevent horizontal kills, and the walk off once the towers are destroyed, it can really ruin the fun of some fights.
The simple solution that I came up with is just remove the towers and add pits to both sides of the level. This would still keep the unique platform placements, and with the Metal Gears still breaking through, along with the spotlights, the charm of the level would stay intact.
Halberd
Halberd is already a legal stage in Brawl and Smash 4, but it still has some issues. Starting off in the level, there are walk offs to the left and right. More importantly, there are two different hazards when landing on the ship that can KO a player at a decent percent.
My proposed solution to this would be to have the starting platform have pits on both sides, and when on the ship, disable the canon and claw hazard.
Green Hill
This picture is another one taken straight from Brawl Minus, but it shows how simple the change can be. Basically by adding pits on both sides of the level, you can remove the cheap kills of walks off, but preserve the unique slope and breakable floors. This version also added in a platform to the middle, and while I am not overly against it, I would suggest that it match the other platforms shown in the background of the level.
Pokemon Stadium 1
This stage is one of my favorites, and I assume it is for many others. It is also an iconic stage for Melee tournaments. But two of its transformations do not lend itself well to competitive play.
For all transformations, I will be overlaying the default layout in green so you can compare.
Grass: I would say this is nearly perfect. The right balance of platforms and open space to fight.
My only suggestion would be to make the ground completely flat, but even still, the transformation is fine as is.
Water: This is another fine stage. It has good sized platforms, and a slightly varied ground. The only issue I see with it is the windmill.
The change I would suggest is making the windmill a background element to aerial battles can flow easier on the left side of the stage. Maybe even a platform could be added to supplement it.
Fire: This is an interesting transformation. It plays well, but the wall that the tree makes can allow people to abuse infinites.
I would suggest making the tree a background element, and making a larger platform at the top of the tree. Other than that not much to say.
Rock: Everyones favorite transformation to hate. The stage is very cluttered with platforms making it hard to move, and the left side is blocked off with the giant rock wall.
I would remove the rock wall completely blending it into the rocks already in the background. Then I would remove all the platforms except the three I highlighted. This would allow players to move around freely, and the layout favoring the left side would mirror how the Water transformation favors the right.
Other thoughts: An idea I had would to make the transformations follow a certain order. Something like Grass -> Fire -> Water -> Rock. Mind you what stage you get when starting would be random, but then you would know what stage would be next in the order.
Spear Pillar
Spear Pillar is a stage that relies heavily on stage hazards, allowing for some cheap kills. Reflecting that is the cave of life area in the middle, that can allow people to live on. The stage also can break apart too, making it a mess overall.
The obvious solution would be to make the Pokemon hazards purely visual. Next the cave in the center would be filled in, though I would not want the blast line move up to compensate. This would make the stage sort of taller, kind of like Fountain of Dreams.
These two screenshots are of Brawl Minus (I swear, I'm REALLY trying not to be biased). For those who have not played it, the level starts out with the normal platform configuration, but after a minute or two, the platforms flash for a few seconds, then disappear to be placed in another orientation. I really like this idea as it prevents the stage from just being static, while at the same time removing the microgames that interrupt the flow.
Non-Project M Stages
These stages are not currently in Project M, but with the Alternate Stage Loader, they could be considered.
Pokemon Stadium 2
Like Pokemon Stadium 1, the neutral platform plays very well (So much so that its all there is in Project M). If Pokemon Stadium 2 was to come back, I'd like to see the neutral layout be reused in another stage as it is perfect to fight on and ranks up there with Battlefield and Fountain of Dreams. Anyway, in the following shots, the green bars are the normal layout for reference.
Ground: This transformation is not that bad, but the large mound of dirt on the stage interrupts the flow.
The easy fix would just be to remove the dirt pile. The other platforms are quite fine as is.
Ice: The actual layout of ice is fine, but the physics of the ice are, well, slippery.
My fix would just be to remove the ice physics from the transformation. I suppose you could keep it, but Id rather much want a full stage to fight with ice than a part of regular stage.
Electric: I'm quite saddened from this transformation. It looks really nice, but the treadmill floors ruin it for me.
I would remove the moving floors, and move that upper platform to the right to balance the area.
Flying: In brawl if you didn't think the floaty physics were bad enough, this transformation made it worse tenfold. Slowly floating around trying to attack your opponent was way more difficult than it should have been.
My fix would be remove the wind currents, and add a single platform in the center. My thinking is that we don't have a stage with a high neutral platform, and having one here would reflect on the flying aesthetic.
Again, this is just a screenshot of Brawl Minus, but the idea is still good. In Smash 64, Melee, and Brawl (Though a sandy desert), the original look of the first Super Mario Bros has been represented. Although each version of the stage has had walk offs, this example here shows how the concept can look. The only issues with this implementation is the balance platforms are just moving platforms and do not fall when stood on for too long.
Mushroom Kingdom 2 is a personal favorite because of my love for Super Mario Bros 2, but the stage itself is rather rough. The blast lines on the side are very close, and the hazards are more of a nuisance than anything else.
This concept here would have you fighting on a background of waterfalls. The logs would still come down the sides, and could even possibly happen on the outer left and right as well depending on how it played. Combining Mushroom Kingdom 1 & 2 into a slot with the ASL could make a good option.
I really appreciate what the Project M Development team has given us, I really do. I don't want to come off as demanding or anything, please do not take it that way. I am merely providing some concepts with visual aid in the hopes that they are considered. I don't know everything, and have only been playing competitively for the last year, so don't take me as an expert, but also don't dismiss me as kid who thinks he has the answers for everything. I would personally love to get in contact with a dev, as I have more ideas rattling around, but these are the ones I had time to make today.
I suppose the TL;DR of it would be remove walk-offs from stages, nerf or remove stage hazards, and provide stage layouts that encourage flow, while at the same time leaving the spirit of the stages.
Thank you for your time. I would appreciate any feedback below about improving my ideas or otherwise.
