Competitive Smash consumer action

[Flux20XX]

also i barley have real people to practice pm with so i only do computers a similar situation that M2K had when starting out

 

[hype machine]

i can do it but not in mid match so i rely on match ups so that i can counter them easily

Yea i know what you mean it was the same thing for me when i first started youre just going to have to train your fingers faster and be more consistent with it, if you can barely shorthop and putta ton of effort in trainning youre not going to do it in a real match, you have to shorthop effortlessly in trainning to do it in a real match.

sorry for the misgrammar it happens when i speed type

 

[Flux20XX]

actually sometimes i switch between claw method and reg because i can double laser short hop but not nearly as good at short hoping with my thumb

 

[hype machine]

also i barley have real people to practice pm with so i only do computers a similar situation that M2K had when starting out

if you can shorthop agianst coms then you shouldnt have a problem shorthopping against real people unless you choke. if you choke and get nervous like i did when i first started playing youre going to find yourself under performing and playing a fraction of what you can do. i suggest playing with friends who play this game, if you dont have any friends that play the game youre going to have a tough time, i have a friend to play with but playing locals still made me choke.

Honestly I don't use claw style so I can't help you there. Double short hop lasers are good but you should teach yourself to shorthop first.

 

[Flux20XX]

i have a cousin but he lives and so do my friends in school but computers are way more perfected so in a real match ill end up overating the other player

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

in that case it wont be seen as much in top level play, but i cant believe alot people think this will actually help the meta improve.

It will for showing what can be done.

If the game is to die or succeed it need to happen one way or another.

That said, I hope for it to be patched out, but we'll see.

 

[Flux20XX]

i use both reg and claw dependent on the player but i can only double laser with claw

 

[hype machine]

i have a cousin but he lives and so do my friends in school but computers are way more perfected so in a real match ill end up overating the other player

What do you mean by computers are way to perfected, and overrating the other player

It will for showing what can be done.

If the game is to die or succeed it need to happen one way or another.

That said, I hope for it to be patched out, but we'll see.

If it ever becomes half as bad as pika watch in doubles it will be patched. In order for the game to survive it needs less players like dabuzzkill and that one pacman player and more players like zero and r1 smash and 6wx. Dabuzz literally made brawl 2.0 a reality and if it wasn't for zero it could have shifted the entire meta back into brawl.

 

[Flux20XX]

well the computers are literally too good in ways like DI, true combos, pressure, (atleast for me) at level 9 they rarley make mistakes but can sd but otherwise you can still win but they play in such a style relying on the best option

and i tend to think an actual player is better than me because i tend to compare players but thats my mentality and its a huge flaw but i cant really change since i think diffrently than others

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Pika/Watch, best way to make doubles last 17 seconds.

Dabuz's Olimar was actually a lot more hype than his Rosalina tbh, but I've never hated how Olimar played. It's very interesting with the micro management and how he goes about. Rosalina was only really terrible with Pacman but I get the feeling a lot of APEX reaked to me of a developing meta and people not entirely sure what to do outside of a few people.

I'm happy to see where it goes from here, and more players like aMSa who can place well in both games and make it exicting.

Edit: Please be careful of double posts guys!

 

[hype machine]

well the computers are literally too good in ways like DI, true combos, pressure, (atleast for me) at level 9 they rarley make mistakes but can sd but otherwise you can still win but they play in such a style relying on the best option

Oh yea don't work on mind games with computers you should use computers to work on your punish game, and DI. Some people say you should be practicing against lvl 1 CPUs. But I'm not sure if it affects their Di . Oh and the computers in this game can mixup their DI which will help your combo game out

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'd use training mode to get bread and butter down. Then CPUs to experiment a bit for the not so easily confirmed stuff.

After that point I'd try and find someone to play regularly or a tournament to play regularly.

 

[Flux20XX]

another flaw of mine is that i dont like using shine but its one of fox's best moves should i just adapt to using it or use it rarly like for spiking or not at all

 

[hype machine]

Pika/Watch, best way to make doubles last 17 seconds.

Dabuz's Olimar was actually a lot more hype than his Rosalina tbh, but I've never hated how Olimar played. It's very interesting with the micro management and how he goes about. Rosalina was only really terrible with Pacman but I get the feeling a lot of APEX reaked to me of a developing meta and people not entirely sure what to do outside of a few people.

I'm happy to see where it goes from here, and more players like aMSa who can place well in both games and make it exicting.

Edit: Please be careful of double posts guys!

Pac man was hype because it was the first time anyone has ever seen a top level pacman. Most of his matches lasted way too long same for Dabuz, olimar was hype because of the comeback with m2k. Eventually games that time out will become very stale quickly. I don't understand the zero hate in the smash 4 community, I think his diddy is the most entertaining, he did more than just d throw to up air. But personally I find top over defensive players to be toxic for the meta, and bad for viewers as their playstyle becomes stale to watch

 

[Flux20XX]

i cant explain the zero hate

 

[hype machine]

another flaw of mine is that i dont like using shine but its one of fox's best moves should i just adapt to using it or use it rarly like for spiking or not at all

I don't use fox, but I heard his shine isn't as good as melee shine but still really good at the same time. You should try learning how drill shine, wave shine, and double shine, they are really useful IMO.for shine spiking I can't help you there I'm not a fox user

 

[Flux20XX]

remeber nakats ice climber in brawl they hated him? now they suport him yeah that logic

i know drill shine im learning the others and shine spiking is literally shine spiking i can double shine but not multi

 

[hype machine]

remeber nakats ice climber in brawl they hated him? now they suport him yeah that logic

I didn't start watching competitive smash until six months ago, I've seen some top level brawl but not nakats ice climbers.but most of smash 4 fans are just really hypocritical, and jump the gun too early so it doesn't surprise me.

 

[Flux20XX]

ice climbers =1 grab= death

 

[hype machine]

i know drill shine im learning the others and shine spiking is literally shine spiking i can double shine but not multi

Double shine is good enough. You don't have to learn multi shining I suggest practicing on something else, maybe triple shining if you get good enough. Oh and for falco I heard it really important to learn how to wavedash and waveland with him and if you can do it perfectly you can make falco look as fast as fox.

 

[hype machine]

ice climbers =1 grab= death

Yea I can see how the viewers would hate that.

 

[Flux20XX]

meh but now they support him alot more but if he used diddy all that respect is gone for the viewers

thanks for the help apreciate it

 

[Vigilante]

I'll be making it on Saturday. You see, the reason for the delay is because I was given an emergency set of shifts. Being the last guy who was hired, I kind of have to patch holes at work.

I will certainly cover the fact that competitive smash and casual smash can and has coexisted. Also, please keep the discussion about the topic at hand.

So here is how it's going to work:

1. I will write a rough draft.
2. You guys comment on it and we can edit it.
3. We can start spreading it.

 

[hype machine]

I'll be making it on Saturday. You see, the reason for the delay is because I was given an emergency set of shifts. Being the last guy who was hired, I kind of have to patch holes at work.

I will certainly cover the fact that competitive smash and casual smash can and has coexisted. Also, please keep the discussion about the topic at hand.

So here is how it's going to work:

1. I will write a rough draft.
2. You guys comment on it and we can edit it.
3. We can start spreading it.

You should post it in a new thread, this thread is kinda ruined from all the smash 4 vs melee

 

[Flux20XX]

okay im stupid XD i shouldve created a fox based on full hop arial with a face to face and mid laser style shine spike only ill use full hop arials to cover if they want to jump over lasers to tag in a little damage and the shine to gimp people under the pineapple its my fox the diverse the better i wanted to look like a pro but it aint like that its me and who i am its my fox my falco my mewtwo my doc my roy my shiek my ganon my style my way ( not a subway advirtisment ) ill have it my way

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

@ hype machine and @ Flux20XX , please don't double post. That's to make two posts one after each other. It's against the rules and is outlined as such in the holiest of holies "The Global Rules". Just edit your original post if you want to change/add anything to it.

If you want to quote someone after you posted:
1) click reply to the post you want to quote
2) go to your text box and select all
3) copy the quote
4) go to your original post
5) click edit
6) go to the Editor text box and go to the bottom
7) paste
8) add your reply to the quote after the [/quote]

I had to merge your double posts like 8,000ish times so you both get a warning. Continuing to double post will result in infractions so please be careful.

 

[hype machine]

okay im stupid XD i shouldve created a fox based on full hop arial with a face to face and mid laser style shine spike only ill use full hop arials to cover if they want to jump over lasers to tag in a little damage and the shine to gimp people under the pineapple its my fox the diverse the better i wanted to look like a pro but it aint like that its me and who i am its my fox my falco my mewtwo my doc my roy my shiek my ganon my style my way ( not a subway advirtisment ) ill have it my way

Lol ok good luck with that

 

[Vigilante]

I'd like to create a new thread, but can moderation please help us keep this abotut he topic at hand? I'm a bit peeved that we even have a moderator derailing the topic. I don't believe that all mods on this forum are like this, but it would be good to be able to discuss this peacefully.

 

[Bleck]

people disagreeing with you is not the same as being off-topic, to imply as such is pretty disingenuous dude

 

[Vigilante]

people disagreeing with you is not the same as being off-topic, to imply as such is pretty disingenuous dude

The point of this topic is to create a civil movement, not to argue about which smash game is best.

 

[Bleck]

and yet your civil movement is based entirely on your frustration that newer Smash games aren't to your liking (i.e similar to Melee)

it's almost like you're just mad that people are disagreeing with you with regards to how necessary and/or productive it is to voice these complaints

 

[hype machine]

Don't even respond to this guy, he trolls on the pm boards all the time, arguing with him brings you nowhere

 

[Rᴏb]

He's right though.

The point of this topic is to wallow in the anguish that is not enjoying a videogame, and nothing more. To pretend that this "movement" (lol) could possibly amount to anything other than a circlejerk is pretty ****ing arrogant and incredibly ridiculous. If you consider that an accomplishment, then fine, but don't get mad at others when they tell you they think it is a waste of time.

 

[MegaMissingno]

A lot of us are dissatisfied with the direction the series has been going. We want to voice that dissatisfaction, whether you agree with us or not.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don't even respond to this guy, he trolls on the pm boards all the time, arguing with him brings you nowhere

Except him and Yursaman are entirely right.

To pretend there is no counter point or other side is being dishonest.

He's not trolling at all, he is bringing up entirely valid points.

 

[hype machine]

Except him and Yursaman are entirely right.

To pretend there is no counter point or other side is being dishonest.

He's not trolling at all, he is bringing up entirely valid points.

Nah man its the point that we have been arguing about this forever and it never ends, we try focusing on the letter but you guys try to bring back the same never ending argument, its almost like you guys are trying to distract us from writing the letter.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Nah man its the point that we have been arguing about this forever and it never ends, we try focusing on the letter but you guys try to bring back the same never ending argument, its almost like you guys are trying to distract us from writing the letter.

Criticism when people post on a forum and ask for help in inevitable. If you don't want it and then don't post.

I'm giving my viewpoint and pointing out legitimate problems I have with mindsets and this letter.

Nothing is stopping anyone from making it, but don't pretend anyone speaking against the letter is a troll. Make the letter and work on it as such if that is your wish. But don't write off anything others ask.

@ Vigilante if you want me to lock this so you can have a clean thread I can. Just ask me if you wish to have it as such.

 

[Vigilante]

I would like to certainly have a clean thread. The goal of this thread is to organize the consummer action. I will preface it with the fact that this is not a debate thread, but a thread strictly meant for organization. If people disagree, they can, but it will not be the place to voice that thought.

Agree or not, we would like to set this in place first and foremost. We'd also like detractors to please be moderated. We can discuss this after we have fully gathered all contributions.


Added a very rough draft:

This letter was written as part of a consumer-driven movement in which we would like to peacefully air our grievances with Nintendo and all involved in making Super Smash Bros. on the general direction of the series.



Super Smash Bros. has had the amazing distinction of being playable both as party game and as an engrossing competitive experience. This is an incredible feat as it allowed two completely different audiences to enjoy a game for completely different reasons. We represent a large part of the competitive community, one that enjoys a particular kind of competitive play.



What made Super Smash Bros. Melee the most fun for us is a combination of elements. The first was having a wide range of movement options. Wavedashing, L-cancelling, and dash-dancing to name a few allowed players to move in very novel manners, space attacks, approach and evade quickly as well as combo more effectively. These techniques allow for the game to become much more offensive-oriented, rewarding taking risks over camping and biding one’s time. It becomes more exciting as a spectator sport. Of course, dodging on bad timing would need to be slightly easier to punish for it to take the desired effect. Many competitive smashers will say that Super Smash Bros. is heavily about positioning your character in the right spot. Nevertheless, this emphasis on position and movement is what set Super Smash Bros. apart from other fighters. It is what made it unique as an esport.



The second is physics variety. One thing certain people bemoan of Super Smash Bros. Brawl and Super Smash Bros U/3DS is that they feel that most characters are very slow and floaty. While it is perfectly fine for certain characters to be on this end of the spectrum like Super Smash Bros. Melee’s Jigglypuff, some like the much faster, fast-falling characters. While no one is asking for all characters to be fast and highly technical, there is demand for it. Super Smash Bros. Melee did really well in this respect, having characters on the very both extreme ends of the spectrum and many in-betweens.



The third is sharp controls. Super Smash Bros. Melee did not have forced buffer, which prevented the player from selecting an input in inadvertence. Movements were crisp and immediate, which allowed players to move their character on command.



Recoveries also play a part. Whenever recoveries are too potent, it drags out matches. Many feel that the latest games make coming back on stage much easier, which doesn’t reward risk-taking, especially off stage as much. Being able to dodge multiple times in the air also removes some of that risk-reward incentive.



Finally, and one of the most important aspects is hitlag. One of the reasons why combos don’t seem as effective and reliable is because characters don’t suffer from nearly as much hitlag, and thus can act out of being hit much quicker. This can punish trying to be bold and creative.



Now let us be clear: We are not asking for another Melee, nor as we demanding that this game only appeal to our sensibilities. However, there are some elements from Melee that we would like to see return. We fully recognize that the party aspect of Super Smash Bros. is an important consideration and should exist alongside the competitive side. We believe that these two can co-exist, and they already have. Super Smash Bros. Melee was enjoyed by both communities. Now, more and more people are jumping into For Glory mode in Super Smash Bros. U/3DS. There is a desire for an engrossing competitive experience, and we would like to peacefully give you our feedback. We are fans, the same as the party smashers you have recently catered to. Mr. Sakurai has once stated that the series could not cater only to the competitive scene, but this is not what we are asking for. We are asking to be taken into consideration whilst also taking the needs of the casual smashers into consideration as well.

 

[Bleck]

"we don't just want another Melee but here's all the ways we want the game to be like Melee"

 

[Vigilante]

"we don't just want another Melee but here's all the ways we want the game to be like Melee"

"I don't know how to read"