Competitive options for Cloud.

[ShadowCalibur]

I need help on of my three mains is cloud and i keep losing to my same friend over and over i looked at a couple combos (which i suck with combos) but he just says the same thing "your predictable" i see one problem is my approach i usually do two things a dash attack or a grab any thing else specific i should do to make me not so predictable im new to the boards but im a ssb vet from the late melee (i had no idea what i was doing then) any tips for cloud roy or ike (all three are my mains) please help

 

[Omastar]

I need help on of my three mains is cloud and i keep losing to my same friend over and over i looked at a couple combos (which i suck with combos) but he just says the same thing "your predictable" i see one problem is my approach i usually do two things a dash attack or a grab any thing else specific i should do to make me not so predictable im new to the boards but im a ssb vet from the late melee (i had no idea what i was doing then) any tips for cloud roy or ike (all three are my mains) please help

Are you playing neutral correctly? Cloud has more options in neutral than dash attack and grab. I am by no means a cloud expert, but you can space with bair and nair. You can charge limit if he isn't approaching. You can implement a lot of movement techs that are effective with cloud like perfect pivoting and fox trots. Are you auto cancelling your dairs? Cloud has a lot of options in neutral and can be played unpredictably if you know his options. Watch players like M2K, Tweek, MK Leo, and Komorikiri to name a few as they all have different styles.

• Also for future reference try asking these kinds of questions in a QA thread as I don't see the need for an entirely new discussion.

 

[ShadowCalibur]

I dont like opening with charge but I play a very offensive style but I am trying to approach with an nair but it is always punished shall i say with a grab right when i reach the ground which makes no sense sometimes it works but it usually doesnt

 

[ShadowCalibur]

perhaps blade beam as well? and i want a discussion for other things i can do too like combos or strings

 

[Omastar]

perhaps blade beam as well? and i want a discussion for other things i can do too like combos or strings

To reply to both comments you probably aren't spacing nair correctly. Blade beam in neutral without limit can be punished. If you want combos and strings look at top players and what they are doing as well as looking through the forum.

 

[ShadowCalibur]

My nair is spaced almost always at the edge at the sword but my friend regardless of what character he used is almost always able to grab me or a jab among other things yes a couple times i am able to jab immediatly afterward but i cant consistently do that maybe i should simply punishing like when i fool around with characters like ganon or bowser perhaps a couple combos?
I know the ff uair footstool ffdair finishing touch combo but i usually screw up the footstool or the ffdair the dair is either too early or late? I probably just need practice with that though

 

[ShadowCalibur]

can you get anyone else here? for more option givin out

 

[HFlash]

I dont like opening with charge but I play a very offensive style

That's your first mistake. Cloud is played much better defensively than offensively. He has a really strong punish game, and forces the approach due to limit charging.

 

[ShadowCalibur]

That's your first mistake. Cloud is played much better defensively than offensively. He has a really strong punish game, and forces the approach due to limit charging.

One thing i will say is that he is much more combo oriented than defensive cloud is a balanced character its like saying mario is better at defence than offence. Yes they can play defence but they are better offensively. I perfer to take hold with an offensive approach yes he has good punish but so does most of the cast like marth and captain falcon

 

[Omastar]

One thing i will say is that he is much more combo oriented than defensive cloud is a balanced character its like saying mario is better at defence than offence. Yes they can play defence but they are better offensively. I perfer to take hold with an offensive approach yes he has good punish but so does most of the cast like marth and captain falcon

If you aren't willing to listen to anything people are telling you... why bother asking? Go watch pros and then come back to this thread.

 

[ShadowCalibur]

Im looking for different options because sitting around and waiting isnt my favorite thing to do besides when i do play complete defence it doesnt work for me especially with cloud. With ike yes i can get some milage but with cloud it just doesnt work for me hence why im looking for approach options and ive spoken to severall other people who said that it is smarter to focus on getting close the opponent and racking up damage via pressure and combos with defence only when absolutely necessary i just am not a defender yes ive seen mew2king fight but i just hate that playstyle yes i do charge when they are recovering or when im waiting for oppenents to respawn from death or if i really cant get an opening which is rare (unless its bait then i charge)

 

[ShadowCalibur]

Hello anyone here?

 

[Vilikis]

You play patiently, observantly, and most importantly, carefully as Cloud or you die because your fool ass got gimped at 10%. You can't just rush in and be aggressive carelessly. That goes with any character, but more-so Cloud because that's a great way to put yourself a stock behind and throw away any kind of advantage you somehow managed to get.
You have a Limit to charge to make them approach you. You have no idea how good this is against characters like Villager and Toon Link, who want to bombard you with projectiles most of the game but don't have a great approach themselves. And when you do have Limit charged and ready to go, you have the 5th fastest ground speed and the fastest air speed in the game, which makes it harder for them to keep you out. Also your n-air is god-like for spacing, especially when you're in Limit status. Use it to your advantage and force the opponent to overextend. You have a sword that's the size of most of the cast. Use it's massive reach to your advantage and space carefully.
It pays a lot to know all about your aerials and how to use them, with normal Cloud and Limit Cloud. (because Cloud falls slightly faster when he has Limit, which changes up auto-cancel windows) because Cloud doesn't get quite as much mileage with his grounded options, with the exception of u-tilt. Know what you can get off late d-air, u-air, and n-air, at what percents, and pay careful attention to how they respond to your aerials. Did they try to punish it? If so, how, and were they successful? Did they opt to not punish it at all? Did they hold shield or did they attempt to retreat? How can you prepare for those options the next time you approach with that aerial? Ask this question each time for each aerial. Cloud's aerials when spaced well are hard to punish, and easy for Cloud to mix-up his follow-up options from a blocked one while remaining safe. Just try not to overextend and space to the best of your ability. Cloud can be aggressive, but you don't want to be very aggressive. At the start of the round, you should be playing defensively, or at least passive-aggressively.

Oh, and a word of advice that will go a long way in life in general, not just Smash.
Beggar's can't be choosers. Don't ask for help and then reject it because it's not what you want to hear.

 

[ShadowCalibur]

Thanks any other options for other matchups?

 

[Vilikis]

Not really much else I can say, really, since I'm not as involved in the Smash scene. I'm somewhat new too, but I've been playing Cloud since he was released and learning a lot about him, and trying to get better at fighting games in general. I did, however, leave out the importance of mixing up and getting creative with your recovery. It's super important because it leads to you dying stupidly early if you become predictable.

 

[Vilikis]

And if you're looking for specific mu's, there are threads dedicated to that.

 

[ShadowCalibur]

Well my unique playstyle has given me very early leads i guess its just down to going back and fourth between pursuit and baiting in games ive been playing cloud since the release but i lost my smash for several months which made me loss valuable practice but now im able to fight a bit (my smash is lost again and i play 3ds version not u) so i use my friends at school to fight and practice. Got anything else for Roy or Ike or should i just go watch Ryo

 

[ShadowCalibur]

Ps ive been playing smash since the demo was released and i mained ike until roy and cloud came out so im using them too

 

[ShadowCalibur]

is anyone here?

 

[EpOc-Samydoo]

I need help on of my three mains is cloud and i keep losing to my same friend over and over i looked at a couple combos (which i suck with combos) but he just says the same thing "your predictable" i see one problem is my approach i usually do two things a dash attack or a grab any thing else specific i should do to make me not so predictable im new to the boards but im a ssb vet from the late melee (i had no idea what i was doing then) any tips for cloud roy or ike (all three are my mains) please help

auto cancelled down air is a great option, u should learn how to do that

 

[ShadowCalibur]

I know how to do that it is one of my most used attacks besides short hop nair

 

[ShadowCalibur]

Any thing else?

 

[Dance!!]

One thing I would say is that you say you approach with Nair and that you use Dair a lot. In general these are actually not his best aerials, especially for approaching. Typically you want to use Bair the most, and falling Uair the second most. That's because these moves are actually a plus on shield (or in the case of a Uair which is even on shield). Nair, and especially Dair are both negative on block, giving your opponent more time to react to your aggressive playstyle.

If you want to be aggressive, that's fine, but I would recommend trying to do so with these moves rather than the ones you mentioned. Dair and Nair are good moves for ledge trapping and maybe as a mix-up or off stage, but they are more punishable than people might lead you to believe.

On-block frame data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...OWFwy_dg04Rrq4a-YF9-VDOhZI/edit#gid=127531413

 

[ShadowCalibur]

k i'll make note of that