Compared to Brawl...

[Link24a]

Smash 4: more characters, better balance, no tripping, faster movement, better combos, no more ledge camping... all spikes nerfed, ledge trumping added, chain grabs removed, recoveries incredibly buffed, blast zones much larger...

As not so many changes were made to smash 4 from brawl as the other games... the smaller changes become big deals.

I honestly think that the small tweaks from brawl that make smash 4 are overall "eh." Yes, the game is much more solid competitively than brawl, but pace is an issue. Almost anything that would get kills at early percents or give setups for such were removed or made far worse, and recoveries became almost guaranteed. The result is a methodical neutral-based game where it's rare for one to get KO'd before 100%, and it usually happens past 120%. Brawl was definitely slower than Melee, but at least it had useful spikes, some effective ledge guarding tactics, and chain grabbing, it wasn't unheard of for a character to get KO'd at 50% due to a spike or was taken from one side of a stage all the way to the other for a kill. Smash 4 only has very straightforward kill options. Down throw up air for Diddy, up smash for Fox, back throw for Ness, etc.

This methodical pace led to smash 4 having one less stock and 2-3 less minutes on the clock.

Honestly, if brawl didn't have tripping or hitstun cancelling, I'd probably prefer it over smash 4 as its just a faster, more Melee-like experience.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Raijinken]

My thoughts are that Smash4 takes the worst of Brawl, gets rid of it, speeds up what's left, adds customs and more characters for more variety at all levels, etc. Recovery power (disregarding your sweeping generalizations that Mac and Doc players would glare at you for) makes offstage play safer while still rewarding, yet players rarely take advantage of it - a missed opportunity for skill and quicker kills. Ledge guarding is thereby even safer, and yet still takes skill.

Every spike is useful here, since there's no meteor canceling, so I'm not sure where that stance came from. Chain grabs are toxic to balance, so I'm not sure why you want those either.

The time a match takes has very little to do with stock. For Glory forced people to rethink stock counts, and a desire for shorter games led to the stock change.

Even with DACUS, Brawl's still just a slow game.

 

[tru.]

I think SSB4 made nothing but improvements. Characters were at least attempted to be made balanced in this game, whereas in Brawl, Meta Knight and Ice Climbers blatantly were renounced the best playable people in the game. The reason this is important is because everyone who plays should have a close to equal chance of winning, and a player's skill level should dictate if they will win against an opponent or not. All around, SSB4 is a much better game than its predecessors.

 

[[Obnoxshush/Dasshizer]]

SSB4 is better than Brawl gameplay wise, but fun wise... Subspace Emissary is much better than Smash Tour and Smash Run. That and SSB4 is missing some characters that made Brawl fun, however that could be fixed with DLC. I don't know, I think Brawl is just more fun at the moment, that could change though. Plus Brawl also has Break the targets.

 

[Furret]

The result is a methodical neutral-based game where it's rare for one to get KO'd before 100%, and it usually happens past 120%. Brawl was definitely slower than Melee, but at least it had useful spikes, some effective ledge guarding tactics, and chain grabbing, it wasn't unheard of for a character to get KO'd at 50% due to a spike or was taken from one side of a stage all the way to the other for a kill.

I killed someone at 10% although I probably should have included the dair in that % (like it still happens and you still have to work for it, this game is still new give it time people will adjust). Honestly all my complaints in killing in this game are based on rage. It feels like every match is just building rage until kill power is achieved.

Smash 4 only has very straightforward kill options. Down throw up air for Diddy, up smash for Fox, back throw for Ness, etc.

Kill options straightforward? well ya some moves need to be (all smash games have them), if a character doesn't have a go to for killing at higher percents they are going to have a rough time. this game just allows people to get to higher percents thanks to the new ledge game

 

[TheKingWalnut]

Honestly, if brawl didn't have tripping or hitstun cancelling, I'd probably prefer it over smash 4 as its just a faster, more Melee-like experience.

Brawl felt really slow to me. Doing a 3 stock match on Brawl takes way longer then 3 stock match on Smash 4, at least in my experience, and the movement speed and everything was slowed down. I might just be the Placebo effect, but I honestly think that in Brawl everything is slower. Just in my experience though, I might think it's slower because I've heard it's slower.

 

[Link24a]

My thoughts are that Smash4 takes the worst of Brawl, gets rid of it, speeds up what's left, adds customs and more characters for more variety at all levels, etc. Recovery power (disregarding your sweeping generalizations that Mac and Doc players would glare at you for) makes offstage play safer while still rewarding, yet players rarely take advantage of it - a missed opportunity for skill and quicker kills. Ledge guarding is thereby even safer, and yet still takes skill.

Every spike is useful here, since there's no meteor canceling, so I'm not sure where that stance came from. Chain grabs are toxic to balance, so I'm not sure why you want those either.

The time a match takes has very little to do with stock. For Glory forced people to rethink stock counts, and a desire for shorter games led to the stock change.

Even with DACUS, Brawl's still just a slow game.

No, they choose 2 stock matches because the game is slow. Regardless of for glory. Also, chain grabs at least speed up the game. Also, 90% of all spikes in the game were nerfed so now they're not much of a thing anymore except for Diddy...
The game makes it more difficult to gimp people even when going offstage because they have better recovery also

Kill options straightforward? well ya some moves need to be (all smash games have them), if a character doesn't have a go to for killing at higher percents they are going to have a rough time. this game just allows people to get to higher percents thanks to the new ledge game

There's barely any gimps or zero to deaths in this game I'm just saying

 

[ICXCM]

Why is that important?

 

[ZomBiehn]

I kill people below 60-70% ALL THE TIME, u obviously don't chase people off stage for kills

 

[RoboTek]

Gimps are less extreme, but more commonly attempted. Safer ledge play and less ledge invulnerability means you aren't screwed over easily for attempting the gimp/spike, and you can attempt more often. This means a better and less extreme game.

Brawl was slower if you weren't playing OP characters, making the game balanced has slowed it down.

 

[Raijinken]

No, they choose 2 stock matches because the game is slow. Regardless of for glory. Also, chain grabs at least speed up the game. Also, 90% of all spikes in the game were nerfed so now they're not much of a thing anymore except for Diddy...
The game makes it more difficult to gimp people even when going offstage because they have better recovery also

"They" isn't even the whole community, on the stock matter. Most views I've seen have also said the only reason they haven't bumped Brawl down is because they've been playing 3 for years. For that matter, a few areas started running PM at 3-stocks for a while because it took too long. Might as well play Smash64 if you want a faster game, even Melee can't keep up with that, regardless of the stock settings.

And spikes are definitely still a thing, not sure what you're watchin'/playin'. Diddy's one of the least spike-happy since he's got an easy hoohah combo. Plenty of characters play to spike, that's a matter of player preference. And again (and like Zombiehn said above), just because you or any other given player is unwilling to chase offstage in one of the easiest games to do so doesn't mean it's not doable or worthwhile.

I mean, I can't fault you if you like Brawl more, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But it's a very unusual opinion to think Brawl was faster than anything.

 

[maxpower1227]

Between the two versions, I've probably already played Sm4sh almost as much as I ever played Brawl. I think it is MUCH better. There is no doubt in my mind about this.

 

[Muro]

yeah sm4sh so far seems like a watered down brawl. They did a good job balancing the roster, but ended up with everyone feeling bland and boring. Lack of any creative combos + insane recoveries kinda killed it.

 

[Mysteltainn]

Smash 4 gave us nothing but improvements in my eyes. Like @ tru. pointed out, at least you can tell that balancing was attempted, unlike Brawl where Meta Knight was blatantly king.

As for gimps being harder due to better recoveries.. What's stopping you from using your own better recovery to go deeper off the stage to ensure they don't get back? I think that in time, people will begin to realise this.