Cloud is Destroying me, HELP

[Kannon]

Hi, I'm a ZSS main. I can handle most matchups vs the top tiers but cloud is the one MU I get demolished in. I know that the ZSS neutral isn't the best and spacing my nairs and zairs seem to be the only ways I can get in. Does anyone have extra knowledge on how to get in vs cloud and what to do once I'm in.

Thanks!
(P.S, Any stages that I can take cloud to would be appreciated )

 

[AstroCRiS]

If you don't perfect shield; fair is safe, nair is safe (if auto canceled or perfectly spaced), and f-smash is safe (and can break you shield). Limit break side-B is unpunishable. Up-b out of shield is great for throwing him offstage. You're gonna want him at mid range, Close enough to not get limit camped, and far enough to escape his sword. DONT CHALLENGE UAIR OR DAIR. You aren't gonna win, so if you see him in the air and you're thinking about trading fair with uair, don't. Once he's offstage, watch him, run offstage, and flip kick back when he up-b's and send him back to the depths.
Uair-Uair-Ub works between 45-55%. His tumbling hitstun animation darts around 38% so go nuts. Shield is good vs. him because his throws suck, but don't get caught too much or you'll eat a shield break.
Tldr. Shield and bait him. keep him close but not too close. Don't challenge Uair and Dair. He's combo able from 38+. You and Flip Kick meteor smash his up-b.
I love this matchup, so much fun and really rewarding for ZSS.

 

[AstroCRiS]

For more help reform to the ZSS Matchup Thread. We just talked about cloud. Good Luck!

 

[pichuthedk]

If you don't perfect shield; fair is safe, nair is safe (if auto canceled or perfectly spaced), and f-smash is safe (and can break you shield). Limit break side-B is unpunishable. Up-b out of shield is great for throwing him offstage. You're gonna want him at mid range, Close enough to not get limit camped, and far enough to escape his sword. DONT CHALLENGE UAIR OR DAIR. You aren't gonna win, so if you see him in the air and you're thinking about trading fair with uair, don't. Once he's offstage, watch him, run offstage, and flip kick back when he up-b's and send him back to the depths.
Uair-Uair-Ub works between 45-55%. His tumbling hitstun animation darts around 38% so go nuts. Shield is good vs. him because his throws suck, but don't get caught too much or you'll eat a shield break.
Tldr. Shield and bait him. keep him close but not too close. Don't challenge Uair and Dair. He's combo able from 38+. You and Flip Kick meteor smash his up-b.
I love this matchup, so much fun and really rewarding for ZSS.

You can challenge dair with upsmash but it's not worth the head ache because you need to be horizontally spaced perfectly to get that tickle interruption.

I've curious and had a thought when you mentioned up b, can we just hit cloud off stage and shield at the edge and get a jump canceled up b those times he doesn't go really low?

 

[skoolzout1]

You can challenge dair with upsmash but it's not worth the head ache because you need to be horizontally spaced perfectly to get that tickle interruption.

I've curious and had a thought when you mentioned up b, can we just hit cloud off stage and shield at the edge and get a jump canceled up b those times he doesn't go really low?

If he doesn't go low, you can pretty much do anything. Instead of UpB you could probably (I haven't tested this) side tilt him and send up at a harsher angle. If up B manages to not kill he may be able to come back since he's so high up. I see UpB as too much of a risk for the same reward that many other moves could do in that situation. Heck you could even stand back a bit and dash Attack and maybe trade (or maybe not since dash Attack has transcendent properties) just my thoughts

 

[pichuthedk]

If he doesn't go low, you can pretty much do anything. Instead of UpB you could probably (I haven't tested this) side tilt him and send up at a harsher angle. If up B manages to not kill he may be able to come back since he's so high up. I see UpB as too much of a risk for the same reward that many other moves could do in that situation. Heck you could even stand back a bit and dash Attack and maybe trade (or maybe not since dash Attack has transcendent properties) just my thoughts

True although I kind feel like I have to p.s the hits to act really.