Cloud Changes - 1.1.4 > 1.1.5

[GHNeko]

IT'S HAPPENING BOYS.

THE NERF HAMMER COMETH.

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Confirmed changes so Far

• Uair Early/Late Damage: 13/9.5 -> 12/8.5
• Forward Smash Third Hit KBG: 119 -> 115
• Down Smash Second Hit KBG: 96 -> 94
• Limit Cross Slash KGB: 155 -> 153
• Finishing Touch (Air):
  • Normal Hit KBG: 417 -> 359
  • Late Hit KBG: 390 -> 335
  • Windbox KBG: 100 -> 86
• Limit Charge Total Charge Time: 362F -> 404F (Increased by 0.42 seconds)
• Front/Back Roll Intangibility: 4-17F -> 4-15F

 

[SM Mystic]

IT'S HAPPENING BOYS.

THE NERF HAMMER COMETH.

---

Confirmed changes so Far

• Uair Damage 13% > 12%

Will update as info rolls in.

Confirming. Compared the damage on Wii U (1.1.5) and 3DS (1.1.4)

 

[CrimsonRick117]

It is as we feared, our Ex-Soldier was smacked with the nerf Hammer

 

[GHNeko]

So outside of Uair DMG changes, all of his other moves do the same DMG.

 

[CrimsonRick117]

So outside of Uair DMG changes, all of his other moves do the same DMG.

What about landing lag for his ariel moves? unchanged as well? I would check myself, but I don't have access to my Wii U atm.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The time it took for the Limit Gauge to fill up was 362 frames (6 seconds + 2 frames) pre-patch

Don't have the exact frame data with me, but it definitly got longer (at least .6 seconds longer)

Still takes 250% damage given to fill it

Still takes 100% damage received to fill it

 

[~Skelly~]

Uair recieved a knockback nerf alongside the damage nerf I think. Anyone else have confirmation?

 

[Skyfox2000]

I can't believe that there was a surprise patch.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Linking hits with normal CS and dsmash still inconsistent?

 

[Laken64]

RIP FT, RIP best in doubles

 

[GHNeko]

The time it took for the Limit Gauge to fill up was 362 frames (6 seconds + 2 frames) pre-patch

Don't have the exact frame data with me, but it definitly got longer (at least .6 seconds longer)

Still takes 250% damage given to fill it

Still takes 100% damage received to fill it

Yeah I can soft-confirm LB takes 10% longer to charge. See my opening post.

Uair recieved a knockback nerf alongside the damage nerf I think. Anyone else have confirmation?

Uair recieved a damage nerf of 1%. This means that it inherently does less kb, hitstun, and shield stun.

It's no longer safe on shield.

So the KB nerf is relative to the damage nerf.

 

[GHNeko]

Linking hits with normal CS and dsmash still inconsistent?

Havnt checked yet.

 

[Mech0nis]

Tested finishing touch (air) and killed captain falcon on training mode at 64% roughly in previous patch and about 88% in the new patch. So about a 22% difference mostly. Otherwise I don't see anything else different than what was already said.

 

[GHNeko]

Double check for grounded.

But yeah it's looking like its around ~20%.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

Couldn't they at least make the startup not horrendous?

 

[ZombieVito]

Nothing but nerfs.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Probably placebo, but I could swear that the first two hits of normal CS come out a few frames faster, linking better.

 

[NikkiNanka]

It's hard to test the limit break KBG changes just because of how the character hit moves around, but from testing here's what I've found:
(All tested on mario on FD, no DI)
Side b limit at edge 61>62
Side b limit middle of fd 94>96
Up air from ground 143>155

 

[haxfactory]

It is as we feared, our Ex-Soldier was smacked with the nerf Hammer

*facepalm*

Why do people STILL call Cloud an Ex-Soldier? I mean it was revealed in Final Fantasy VII that he never actually made it into Soldier. Not because he was physically incapable, but because he's mentally unstable and he couldn't handle the Mako. Which is also why he was a useless vegetable all throughout the end of Crisis Core while Zack went through just as much experimentation and was 100% fine.

 

[Axel311]

Honestly this patch may have been a buff by proxy for Cloud in singles. Many other top tiers got nerfed harder, and what really makes Cloud good - his huge disjoints combined with lack of lag, was not touched. His recovery was not nerfed either. You'll have to camp a bit more because of longer limit charge and work opponents up to slightly higher percents to kill because of across the board damage/knockback nerfs, but this is mostly just a slap on the wrist for Cloud in singles. Also, FT was never a big thing in singles.

 

[Fenriraga]

Dunno if it means anything but Limit frames seem to be about .42 seconds longer rather than the .66 or so.

*facepalm*

Why do people STILL call Cloud an Ex-Soldier? I mean it was revealed in Final Fantasy VII that he never actually made it into Soldier. Not because he was physically incapable, but because he's mentally unstable and he couldn't handle the Mako. Which is also why he was a useless vegetable all throughout the end of Crisis Core while Zack went through just as much experimentation and was 100% fine.

Last I checked we aren't here to discuss FF7 details and Lore.

 

[NikkiNanka]

Here's something I found, dunno if it was possible before or even if it will be anything other than situational, but its here https://vine.co/v/iwPp0AA21Ea

 

[Tisbomb]

Here's something I found, dunno if it was possible before or even if it will be anything other than situational, but its here https://vine.co/v/iwPp0AA21Ea

This was possible pre patch. Maybe the window is smaller now?

 

[NintendoPSX]

Don't believe anything regarding Cloud's apparent 1.5 second Limit Charge increase. It's actually only by .42 seconds. https://youtu.be/bR3epeMT3Dc

 

[Fenriraga]

Don't believe anything regarding Cloud's apparent 1.5 second Limit Charge increase. It's actually only by .42 seconds. https://youtu.be/bR3epeMT3Dc

Literally just posted that already. :V

But yeah, not really too bad all things considered. Just a fraction of a second more of charging, which doesn't mean too much since Limit charging is stupidly hard to punish to begin with.

This was possible pre patch. Maybe the window is smaller now?

The -1% MIGHT make the window ever so slightly reduced, but I really don't think it makes a notable difference.

 

[Tisbomb]

Literally just posted that already. :V

But yeah, not really too bad all things considered. Just a fraction of a second more of charging, which doesn't mean too much since Limit charging is stupidly hard to punish to begin with.



The -1% MIGHT make the window ever so slightly reduced, but I really don't think it makes a notable difference.

This will mean similar results to weak hit dair to uair
EDIT: it will still work, just kill at later percents

 

[Lyled]

I wonder if Cloud's fsmash and limit blade beam can still be SDI-ed out like what Nairo did...

 

[DrizzyDrew]

Does the Limit down b nerf only apply when he is in the air according to the patch notes? Can anyone confirm if it remains strong while on the ground?

 

[Axel311]

Does the Limit down b nerf only apply when he is in the air according to the patch notes? Can anyone confirm if it remains strong while on the ground?

It's definitely been nerfed on the ground as well.

 

[MaxRevenge]

It's definitely been nerfed on the ground as well.

No, it hasn't been nerfed on the ground. Kill percentages on the ground remain the same. It has only been nerfed in the air.

 

[Funkermonster]

I hear you got nerfs to your roll, limit crosslash, and Fsmash & dsmash. How bad do you think they are?

 

[Vyseskies]

I'm still really happy and satisfied with these nerfs, even being a Cloud main. In practice, these nerfs wont affect Cloud too much on singles, in fact, Cloud's Uair was actually a buff since Cloud now can lead to new strings after a falling Uair on the ground like for example uair > LB Cross Slash and combos easier on itself now even on late %s because its weaker. Komorikiri played a lot of matches against 9B's Bayo this earlier morning, and destroyed him on most matches. The biggest hit is on FT airbone, which will probably remove Cloud from top tier on doubles.

 

[Vyseskies]

It's definitely been nerfed on the ground as well.

Nope, grounded FT remais the same.

 

[~Skelly~]

I hear you got nerfs to your roll, limit crosslash, and Fsmash & dsmash. How bad do you think they are?

They're relatively minute overall. FSmash, DSmash, and LB CS are still really good kill moves, we just can't kill as early.

As for rolling, it's not a big deal unless you overtly rely on it.

Bottom line, like everyone has said, this patch was simply a slap on the wrist for Cloud.

 

[GHNeko]

Updated OP with official 1.1.5 info.

 

[CrimsonRick117]

*facepalm*

Why do people STILL call Cloud an Ex-Soldier? I mean it was revealed in Final Fantasy VII that he never actually made it into Soldier. Not because he was physically incapable, but because he's mentally unstable and he couldn't handle the Mako. Which is also why he was a useless vegetable all throughout the end of Crisis Core while Zack went through just as much experimentation and was 100% fine.

First off this isn't the thread to discuss FF7 lore and secondly are you trying to tell me what I already know about a game I played to death? ( I'm referring to FF7 and CC )... I used the title "Ex-soldier" as a creative way of saying how Cloud recently got nerf and even then they are so minuscule it's barely noticeable. Besides Clouds alias in Smash is 1st Class Soldier.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Limit Charge Total Charge Time: 362F -> 404F (Increased by 0.42 seconds)

42 frames =/= 0.42 seconds

It should be 0.7 seconds

 

[GHNeko]

42 frames =/= 0.42 seconds

It should be 0.7 seconds

Got my info here.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Got my info here.

Well...I learned something...I guess...

 

[GHNeko]

Yeah. It's odd how they're writing it. But at this point they got the hard data. My stop watch stuff was soft testing.

So who am I to contest their methods without having an equivalent method myself.