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Checkmate [OU RMT]

9Kplus1

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
3,518
Location
Smogon (PM FC: 4256-7740-0627)
Introduction

The 4th generation of Pokemon has been through so much as opposed to the simpler times of its predecessors - RBY, GSC, RSE. This metagame constantly fluctuates Pokemon between tiers if they seem to fit the requirements of a tier higher, or lower than their own. Wobbufett and Raikou are decent examples to this fluctuation, as they've been across a lines of higher and lower tiers. Though, I'm not here to talk about the metagame; I'm posting a team in hopes that someone will help it become even better than it is now. With that said, I can state a fact that we all know: Pokemon is a game of luck. Unlike other strategic games (including a few FPS), the outcome of a match is always decided by luck rather than skill. Luck and the expectancy of this metagame causes most good players to think; good players don't like to think since their choice can be out-predicted by a significantly less skilled player, causing a loss in most cases. Very often, I'm stricken with pretty gay luck - be it misses, misprections, critical hits, being bull****ted out a very likely KO, or unexpected things that are never prepared in advance for due to their low viability in the OU metagame (Weavile, Electivire, Curse Mamo, etc etc) - and it's inevitable, impossible to play around without a team that can somehow destroy part of the programming of Shoddy, and ignore any form of luck. Such a team would be impossible to have, however, I can make a team that almost always places me a good position regardless of luck (excluding bull**** luck).
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Team Checkmate


Special thanks to Blinding Rampage on Shoddy for helping me with this team
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Heatran (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Overheat
- Stealth Rock
---
"Eyyo Metagross! I-I'm real happy for you, imma let you finish, but... Choice Specs Heatran is one of the best leads of all time! One of the best leads of all time!"

Those words are more true than you think, Choice Specs Heatran is a great lead to have these days, partially due to its immense power coupled with excellent typing and decent Speed. Choice Specs Overheat destroys Metagross through the Occa Berry, while it dents just about everything else that can switch in on Heatran pretty badly. Hidden Power Grass hits Swampert for an OHKO, even if one decides to go 252/252 Careful. Hidden Power Grass also nails bulky Waters, Suicune and Vaporeon namely, as well as Tyranitar a good amount of damage (though, 4/0 Tyranitar aren't 2HKO'd by Hidden Power Grass 75% of the time). Dragon Pulse is there for filler, honestly; however, Latias switch ins and Ninjask running Leftovers tend to get annoying and with Flygon and Gyarados forcing Heatran out, Dragon Pulse is a much more reliable option than Earth Power. I play this Heatran very conservatively since it functions well as a late game sweeper and with Heatran's ability to scare a good amount of OU into not attacking, Stealth Rock went into the final slot. In all honesty, this team hasn't shown a major need for Stealth Rock until mid/late game since Machamp only needs it to get the jump on Gyarados as it switches in.

As said before, Heatran functions well as a late game sweeper thanks to its decent Speed alongside the 1.5x power boost from Choice Specs. After attacking, Heatran will be locked into a single move; in order to effectively use the power of the Choice Specs, I need to know my opponent's team. Saving Heatran until late game really helps ease the prediction, and it allows Heatran to net a good amount of kills with its moderate coverage. Heatran also serves as my Swords Dance Scizor check in the event that Gyarados should faint.

Team Synergy:




---


Flygon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 136 Atk/252 Spd/120 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Outrage
---
Ahhhhh early D/P, those were the days. No one complained about Garrchomp, Cresselia was one of the dominant Psychic types, and of course, MixGon was present in the OU metagame.

The current metagame groups all Dragons into a single bucket - Steel trap fodder. This is due to the fact that with the advent of Outrage, Dragons have made themselves more prone to being revenge killed as opposed to lacking a great amount power with Dragon Claw (excluding Garchomp, and Dragonite who've had Outrage since D/P came out). MixGon and MixMence have a way around becoming trapped into Steels while maintaining the same coverage and power that Outrage gave (barring attacks aimed at Blissey) - Draco Meteor.

Flygon has a decent Special Attack stat to abuse Draco Meteor, which gives it an even better shot at safely revenge killing a Pokemon. Stone Edge was replaced due to its ineffectiveness on my team, usually against Gyarados, Gliscor, Machamp and Salamence. Draco Meteor also hits Swampert for quite a bit if it doesn't invest much into Special Defense. Earthquake and U-turn are self explanatory; STAB and scouting respectively. Outrage is great when my opponent's team is revealed to me, or I know how weakened my opponent's Steels are. The only problem here is the spread, I'm stumped on what to invest in; however, the spread is as close to "balanced" as I'm going to get due to the fact that investing more in Special Attack, or Attack won't have much of an impact on the Pokemon that Flygon can revenge.

For the curious, I did some calcs to prove how strong Draco Meteor is compared to Stone Edge

Code:
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/f/f4/Spr_1g_130.png[/IMG]
Draco Meteor vs 4/0 Gyarados
226 Atk vs 236 Def & 331 HP (140 Base Power): 144 - 171 (43.50% - 51.66%)

It can only 2HKO with Stealth Rock around 40% of the time; however, I
still have Machamp and my own Gyarados to switch in and take the hit,
crippling the opposing Gyarados, or just KOing it..

-1 Stone Edge vs 4/0 Gyarados
199 Atk vs 196 Def & 331 HP (100 Base Power): 146 - 174 (44.11% - 52.57%)

Gyarados is switching in on Flygon since it's immune to Earthquake, takes little damage
 from U-turn, and Intimidate allows it to use Outrage as setup fodder since it's doing a
 maximum of 47%, allowing it to either kill Flygon with Ice Fang (albeit rarely used), or
 setup two Dragon Dances. However, in the case of Flygon revenging Gyarados:

Stone Edge vs 4/0 Gyarados
299 Atk vs 196 Def & 331 HP (100 Base Power): 220 - 260 (66.47% - 78.55%)

Life Orb Waterfall vs Flygon
383 Atk vs 196 Def & 301 HP (80 Base Power): 169 - 199 (56.15% - 66.11%)

+1 Life Orb Waterfall vs Flygon
574 Atk vs 196 Def & 301 HP (80 Base Power): 252 - 297 (83.72% - 98.67%)

In this case, Flygon needs Stealth Rock, and a round of Life Orb recoil (or, 29%
damage done to Gyarados) to OHKO it on average. It needs Stealth Rock, and
two rounds of Life Orb recoil to net the OHKO all of the time.

In both cases, Flygon manages to beat Gyarados without much trouble.
----------
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/a/a0/PinRS373.png[/IMG]
Draco Meteor vs 4/0 Salamence
226 Atk vs 196 Def & 331 HP (140 Base Power): 348 - 410 (105.14% - 123.87%)

Stone Edge vs 4/0 Salamence
299 Atk vs 196 Def & 331 HP (100 Base Power): 220 - 260 (66.47% - 78.55%)

Stone Edge only has a 20% chance of OHKOing Salamence after Stealth Rock.
Draco Meteor has a 100% chance of OHKOing Salamence with, or without Stealth Rock.
I like dem' odds.

Draco Meteor outright beats Stone Edge when revenging Salamence,
which keeps Flygon from having its life ended early by a "surprise"
Steel type on the other team.
----------
[IMG]http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/1/14/MDP472.png[/IMG]
Draco Meteor vs 252/0 Jolly Gliscor
226 Atk vs 186 Def & 354 HP (140 Base Power): 183 - 216 (51.69% - 61.02%)

Stone Edge vs 252/40 Jolly Glis- hold on... what is this ****?
Max - 24%

Draco Meteor can win with a bit of residual damage while Stone Edge just
sits there and looks pretty.
Team Synergy:



---

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 160 HP/176 Atk/20 Spd/152 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Bug Bite
---
How can you not say "checkmate" without Scizor? Sporting fantastic typing alongside a massive Attack stat, a great ability, and a nice movepool to choose attacks from, Scizor can shift the entire tide of game in a single turn.. Once Scizor gained Bullet Punch and Superpower, it shot from being an underrated sweeper in UU (or BL, don't exactly remember) to the most used and most fearful Pokemon of the OU tier. Quite an impressive feat, and it was all thanks to the addition of those two moves. The first thing that every player notes about Scizor is its amazing ability to utilize the Choice Band. It places Scizor at an impressive 591 Attack every time it switches in with a base 60 STAB priority move to fire off at will. Scizor managed to change the pace of the OU metagame a bit, making itself a threat that just about every team has to prepare for. This led a majority of players to add Fire type moves to their team in order to decimate Scizor before it gets a chance at harming anything (others went with the "can't touch me" way of killing Scizor).

Latias can take a Choice Banded Bullet Punch to the mouth while Gengar can scout with Protect. Both carry Hidden Power Fire commonly often to kill off Scizor, making Pursuit more risky to use than anything else when up against these Pokemon. Scizor has had his face broken more than often by these Pokemon, and others that can switch into Scizor without much trouble. Bug Bite is one hell of a move on Scizor, boasting an even greater base power than U-turn - I've even gone as far as calling it Scizor's Meteor Mash. Choice Banded Bug Bites dent a good amount of Pokemon in OU, most notably, a 2HKO on 4/0 Gyarados after Stealth Rock damage and Intimidate have been accounted for. Just to set one thing straight, I did test Pursuit at one time, however, it always resulted in a misprediction and Scizor getting nailed in the face with Hidden Power Fire. If your Scizor doesn't have Bullet Punch, you're doing something wrong. A base 60 priority move with STAB, and can hit Ghosts and **** Ice types unlike Ice Shard and Extremespeed - why wouldn't Scizor have this? U-turn withers the opposition down while it gives me the luxury of switching in the Pokemon that would do "best" against the switched in Pokemon. Superpower keeps Heatran, Blissey, Lucario, umm... any Pokemon weak to the attack from ruining Scizor's party.

I "borrowed" the EVs from a place that I don't remember much about. They allow Scizor to take Latias's Surfs relatively well while only losing around 10% of its attacking power. Though, I am considering the 26 HP/252 Atk/232 Spd spread to outplace Agility Empoleon, Adamant Tyranitar, etc.

Team Synergy:


---

Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/244 Def/8 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Dynamicpunch
- Stone Edge
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
---
Pure Fighting typing, 90/80/85 Defenses, a 100% accurate STAB base 100 attack that causes Confusion and a base 130 Attack to boot make Machamp a valuable member of this team. There isn't much to discuss, here; Machamp breaks faces in OU, leaving only Gliscor and Latias running around "safely". He's also the best Tyranitar counter in the game (barring Groudon), which is great considering that my team does jack **** to it. Another fact about Machamp is that he's Captain Falcon's offspring, which makes him the grandson of Chuck Norris.

Get *****.

Dynamicpunch is a very fun move to play around with in OU, as it's going to dent something and Confuse it. The low PP keeps Machamp from flinging around Dynamicpunches randomly, however. Stone Edge hits most of the threats to my team for a good amount of damage and the fact that it's always going to hit gives me an option against Bounce Gyarados. Machamp makes a great ResTalker on this team for the traits mentioned in the first part the description. Rest and Sleep Talk are pretty obvious moves, hence the term "ResTalker"

Max Defense Machamp is very underrated, taking hits from some of the most dangerous powerhouses of OU. Life Orb Naive Salamence for example, always OHKOs Adamant 252/0 Machamp with a +1 Outrage while this Machamp is never OHKO'd. Machamp still hits pretty hard with both Stone Edge and Dynamicpunch, maintaining the [major] 2HKOs and OHKOs on Pokemon such as Blissey and Gyarados. The 8 Speed EVs outplace 0 Speed and 4 Speed Machamp in the case that Machamp is ever pitted against one.

Team Synergy:



---

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP/100 Atk/112 Def/96 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Taunt
- Stone Edge
---
Gyarados is maaaaaaaaaaaaaadddd cute. Just look at him, nothing about Gyarados isn't cute. Gyarados's cuteness however, is often overlooked by his position as one of OU's "massive" threats... which brings me to the fifth slot of this team: BulkyDos. I'm still feeling nostalgic from Flygon, but BulkyDD Dos is a better example of what early D/P was like. It led off teams, it made Skarmory **** his pants, it even made teams using Garchomp shake in fear when Gyarados managed to setup a single Dragon Dance. BulkyDos's omnipresence in OU promoted Hidden Power Electric to be used by most, if not all bulky Waters since Gyarados lacked the ability to OHKO, or 2HKO them after a Dragon Dance. Although, this soon changed when OffensiveDos found its way into the OU metagame. 2HKOs turned into OHKOs and 3HKOs changed into 2HKOs, lessening the need of Hidden Power Electric. Though, BulkyDos still remained a threat to a good amount of teams. Even in this metagame with Empoleon and Jirachi running around, BulkyDos is a great addition to a good amount of teams.

I tweaked the EVs on the BulkyDD Dos set to give Gyarados a bit more bulk and power in exchange for some Speed. 224 Speed beats most Scizor and Adamant Tyranitar, which is all Gyarados needs to setup a sweep; Latias, nor Starmie are OHKOed by Stone Edge and both carry Thunderbolt and most Gengar only switch in if they're holding a Choice Scarf.

Taking a bat to the face one person in my life that I have a stinging hatred for - that one person that I just loathe - is what is feels like when Gyarados gets up a Dragon Dance. Couple 513 Attack and 336 Speed stats alongside one of the best offensive and defensive types in the game and you have a monster on your hands. Stone Edge covers most of what Waterfall can't hit and with Gyarados's bulk, the 80% accuracy isn't much of a problem to get by. Taunt is a icing on the cake, allowing Gyarados to setup on quite of few Pokemon - usually bulky Waters and Pokemon that have a decent chance of Phazing, cripping or setting up on Gyarados such as Dual Screen Cresselia, Suicune and Skarmory.
---
Team Synergy:



---

Lanturn (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 40 HP/216 Def/252 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic
- Thunder Wave
---
Want a lulzy Pokemon? Try Lanturn. No, seriously, Lanturn is the comedic relief of this team for a few reasons - the first reason being this ****ing pic; EPIC. Lanturn also possesses something that other bulky Waters not named Swampert lack: The ability to constantly switch in on Electric type moves with little trouble. Not only does this help against threats such as OffensiveCune, but it also gives my team another immunity (a much more reliable option to switch in), which definitely helps in the long run. Lanturn also weighs roughly 50 pounds, which drops Grass Knot - one of the most common Grass type attacks - down to a sultry 50 base power. This allows Lanturn to take on defensive Celebi, Infernape and other common users of the move. Lanturn also has access to Electric type moves, making it an effective check to Starmie, Suicune and Gyarados lacking Earthquake.

Thunderbolt and Surf provide excellent coverage and they come with the bonus of being Lanturn's most reliable and powerful STAB attacks. Thunder Wave ****s **** up, nuff' said. I've actually had Blissey switch into Lanturn and Thunder Wave on the switch as well as Machamp making an attempt to kill Lanturn with Dynamicpunch, giving me a bit of reason to use Toxic as opposed to Ice Beam or Confuse Ray.


**** yeah Lanturn.
---
Team Synergy:



---

Entry Hazard overview



2 Stealth Rock resists
1 Stealth Rock weakness
3 take regular Stealth Rock damage



2 immune to Spikes
4 take Spikes damage



4 immune to Toxic Spikes
2 are Poisoned by Toxic Spikes
1 ResTalker

Replacements

Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 160 HP/176 Atk/20 Spd/152 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Bug Bite
---
Swords Dance and Roost can take advantage of Scizor's typing and bulk much better than the Choice Band variant can. Though, I'm suspicious on how BulkySD Scizor will play out on this team; more testing after my ban is lifted should calm my thoughts =/.

Leftovers is the primary item choice for this reason:

+1 Bug Bite vs 4/0 Gyarados (factoring in Intimidate)
564 Atk vs 196 Def & 331 HP (90 Base Power): 139 - 164 (41.99% - 49.55%)
2HKO 100% of the time with Stealth Rock

Leftovers also promote Scizor's survival and go along well with Roost.

Threat List

Scizor: Gyarados and Heatran have their way with Scizor. Lanturn also has a decent shot at switching in on the behemoth and denting it with Surf.

Salamence: Gyarados is the initial switch in thanks to Intimidate and Stone Edge. Machamp is the secondary choice since it can take most of Salamence's attacks pretty well. Flygon and Scizor can easily revenge it if I have to sacrifice something.

Heatran: Gyarados and Flygon can easily switch in and OHKO Heatran while Machamp can switch in on anything but a Fire Blast. Lanturn can 2HKO Timid 4/0 Tran with Surf, yaaaaaaayyyyyyyy.

Gyarados: My own Gyarados has no problem taking out Offensive. variants that lack Stone Edge while Machamp can handle most forms of BulkyDos. Any variant that doesn't carry Earthquake has to worry about Lanturn. Flygon can revenge Gyarados after a bit of damage.

Rotom-A: Heatran can take on just about every non-Specs'd form of Rotom-A. Flygon only has to worry about Will-o-Wisp, otherwise it can switch in and Draco Meteor Rotom into submission. Lanturn has its fun with Rotom any Rotom form barring Rotom-c.

Latias: Scizor and Heatran molest Latias. Lanturn can switch in on anything but boosted Dragon Pulses and throw around some poison.

Tyranitar: Machamp, hands down. Scizor can switch in and **** Tyranitar up pretty badly. Flygon can revenge Dragon Dance Tyranitar without much trouble.

Metagross: Metagross is bacon for Gyarados considering that it lacks Thunderpunch. Heatran also makes a decent switch in to Choice Band Metagross. Flygon can chip off over 60% with Earthquake, and Scizor can bring Metagross down to 50% with Bug Bite. LeadGross is always beaten by Heatran.

Lucario: Gyarados can handle most of what Lucario can dish out, only falling to Stone Edge. Machamp can switch into most of what Lucario can dish out and destroy him with Dynamicpunch. Flygon can revenge +1 Lucario, which means that if Gyarados succumbs to Lucario, Flygon can revenge it.

Infernape: Gyarados, excluding Swords Dance variants. In that case, Machamp and Flygon fare well against the ape. Lanturn ***** MixApe.

Jirachi: Jirachi hates Flygon and Heatran. Machamp dents the hell out of it with Dynamicpunch. Lanturn stands a chance against support Jirachi.

Gengar: Scizor and Flygon can handle it without much of a problem. Lanturn also plays a part in keeping the ghost at bay.

Swampert: Considering that most Swampert lead rather than switch in later, Heatran can get the jump on him with Hidden Power. Machamp can beat down other variants that lack Rest, only risking a "surprise" Hydro Pump.

Blissey: Scizor can switch in on just about everything Blissey can toss at it, and Machamp outright ***** her. Without Thunderbolt, Blissey has to worry about Gyarados setting up on her.

Azelf: Flygon and Heatran can take most variants of Azelf on. It's very rare that I see Life Orb Azelf but in that case, Heatran serves as the best switch in to Azelf with Lanturn falling in as the secondary choice with Thunder Wave to cripple Azelf.

Starmie: Lanturn and Scizor :/.

Gliscor: Flygon can break Gliscor apart with Draco Meteor after 20% has been taken. Gyarados does more than 50% with Waterfall, **** Roost.

Vaporeon: Gyarados takes out variants that lack Hidden Power Electric, Scizor does some fatal damage with Bug Bite, and Lanturn can **** everything that Vaporeon does... or just poison it.

Magnezone: Flygon ***** it. Really, it does. Machamp has no problem with Thunderbolt, and destroys Magnezone with Dynamicpunch. **** Explosion, Lanturn can take Magnezone on pretty well.

Zapdos: Heatran can go for the OHKO with Overheat, though Thunderbolt can 2HKO it after Stealth Rock, or if Zapdos invests a bit in Special Attack. Lanturn has a nice chance against any variant that lacks Hidden Power Grass.

Kingdra: Gyarados's Taunt prevents Kingdra from setting up more than one Dragon Dance while it can setup a few Dragon Dances of its own. Otherwise, Flygon's going to have to revenge another Pokemon.

Breloom: Machamp can take the Sleep, Gyarados can setup on SubSeed Breloom and Scizor can revenge it.

Skarmory: Call the police! Someone's getting ***** by a Gyarados! Well, on average, Gyarados can beat most Skarmory. Lanturn and Heatran make Skarmory **** bricks.

Bronzong: Scizor's Bug Bite does a minimum of 55%. Get *****. Heatran and Gyarados also have fun dinging the bell around.

Celebi: Heatran has no problem Overheating. Scizor has its U-turn and reliable typing to switch in. **** yeah Lanturn.

Flygon: Gyarados and Machamp are the most reliable switch ins.

Suicune: Lanturn beats OffensiveCune without much of a problem (bar Toxic Spikes) while Gyarados has little to no problem with Crocune. Heatran can 2HKO 252/0 Bold Suicune with Hidden Power Grass most of the time, **** that switch in.

Empoleon: Gyarados can setup on Empoleon lacking Grass Knot while keeping it from Subbing to its Petaya Berry with Taunt. Lanturn takes very little damage from all of Empoleon's unboosted attacks; however, even with a +1 boost and Torrent activated, Surf is doing a maximum of 42%. Flygon can revenge +2 Speed Empoleon.

Forretress: Setup for my big, blue dragon. Heatran ***** it, and Machamp knocks it around with Dynamicpunch.

Electivire: Electivire is a very uncommon yet potent threat that switches in when my **** luck calls for it, which gives it a spot on this threat list. Machamp can switch in on just about every attack Electivire can throw at him excluding a 319 Special Attack Life Orb Thunderbolt, which 2HKOs. Dynamicpunch eradicates Electivire (well, it only does 77% on average, which is a surefire OHKO if Electivire is running a Life Orb =/). Flygon can revenge Vire if it only gets a single Motor Drive boost... what the hell am I saying? Flygon can switch in on most of Electivire's moves and deliver an OHKO with Earthquake. Without Earthquake, Lanturn has a decent chance against Mixivire, only taking 25.44% - 29.93% from an unboosted Cross Chop.

Team Building Process



I read something a good while ago about using Choice Specs Heatran as a lead. So, after doing a few calcs, Heatran became my lead of choice (no pun intended).



Once Heatran is locked into a move, it's bound to lure in a good amount of Pokemon. These Pokemon range from Latias to Flygon; essentially Earthquake users, or Pokemon that can use Heatran as setup fodder. Flygon sports excellent synergy with Heatran, only risking getting hit by simple predicted switches. Choice Scarf Flygon can scare out most of Heatran's threats and it can scout pretty well with U-turn.




Without batting an eye, I chose Choice Band Scizor as the next Pokemon for this team since it can kill just about every Pokemon that switches in on Flygon. It also synergizes well with both Heatran and Flygon.



At this point, I needed a reliable check to Tyranitar that doesn't require me to scrap one of my Pokemon and a "counter" Defensive Rotom-A. Blissey began to show her fat, ugly face which led me to using ResTalk Machamp as a status absorber.



The final two slots were a true mystery to me; however, Blinding Rampage suggested Gyarados in one slot and Jirachi in the other. Both Jirachi and Gyarados fit perfectly with the team, though Starmie and Gengar became prominent threats to this team and finding a check for both of them was a hard and grueling task. Most of the candidates for the 6th slot didn't synergize well with Jirachi, only getting a safe chance to switch in when Starmie and Gengar decide to show up. With that in mind, I decided to take another route and go with Rotom-h as the primary sweeper of the team. It managed to net a good amount of KOs, but that was through sheer expectancy and luck. Then I found out how much stall and heavy offense teams break me down, which led me back to Gyarados. After tweaking some EVs, testing it out for a bit and getting banned from Shoddy so I could work of this RMT (har har), BulkyDos became the primary sweeper of this team.



With Gyarados in the 5th slot, I decided to finally use a reliable check to Starmie and a somewhat decent check to Gengar (Life Orb Shadow Balls hurt, but Thunder Wave ****s over Gengar's role as a late game sweeper for the opposition). Lanturn is funny and he doesn't care.



And that's how this team came to life.

Closing Words

**** stall
 

Wave⁂

Smash Legend
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
11,870
Make Heatran Modest FOR THE LULZ.

Flygon isn't a Bug, so it doesn't get STAB on U-Turn.
As for the EVs / nature, either stick with what you have right now, use this guy to find a nice balanece (or lack of balance), or find the EVs needed to take out key threats. For example, the SpAtk needed to OHKO min / min Gyarados with Draco Meteor, or something.

Why in the hell would you ever give Scizor an EV set that doesn't have 252 Atk.

Machamp: Weird EVs.

Gyarados: That's an interesting set.

Jirachi: Tyranitar doesn't really wall you. Also Celebi.


Opposing (Scarf) Jirachi with Psychic / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam might be a problem if your Heatran is down.
 

9Kplus1

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
3,518
Location
Smogon (PM FC: 4256-7740-0627)
Make Heatran Modest FOR THE LULZ.
...No.

Flygon isn't a Bug, so it doesn't get STAB on U-Turn.
As for the EVs / nature, either stick with what you have right now, use this guy to find a nice balanece (or lack of balance), or find the EVs needed to take out key threats. For example, the SpAtk needed to OHKO min / min Gyarados with Draco Meteor, or something.
The EV spread is as close as I'm going to get to "balanced" as I'm going to get =/.

Why in the hell would you ever give Scizor an EV set that doesn't have 252 Atk.
Me said:
I "borrowed" the EVs from a place that I don't remember much about. They allow Scizor to take Latias's Surfs relatively well while only losing around 10% of its attacking power.
Opposing (Scarf) Jirachi with Psychic / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam might be a problem if your Heatran is down.
Jirachi doesn't get Ice Beam nor does it run a Special Scarf set.

Jirachi: Tyranitar doesn't really wall you. Also Celebi.

+1 Thunderbolt does 23% max to Adamant 4/0 Tyranitar and Celebi is setup fodder as I already mentioned >_>
 

Circa

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 6, 2009
Messages
2,874
Location
Three Rivers, MI
NNID
timssu
3DS FC
1891-2120-4792
If that's all you're planning on hitting with Draco Meteor on Flygon, then I recommend trying out this EV spread:
180 Atk/76 SAtk/252 Spe

Reason being is that I think you may have forgotten the fact that Draco Meteor cuts your SAtk in half when you use the move. You see, when that cut is implemented you can't net the 2HKO on Gyara (especially one with Leftovers, which is the prominent item you see) or Gliscor; even after SR. So now all the move is left countering, at least from that list of three, is Mence. So the changes I made to the spread were meant to ignore what Draco Meteor doesn't do to those two and instead pay attention to what Draco Meteor DOES do to Mence. 76 SAtk EVs are the bare minimum needed to get that OHKO, and unless you're planning on OHKO'ing something else I wouldn't advise giving it anymore. From there you can then invest everything left over into Attack, which is what your moveset is mainly focusing on using to begin with. This spread should net your more kills overall, which is always a good thing.

Also, I did some calcing for you and discovered that a -1 Outrage from the EV spread I gave has a 54% chance of landing a 2HKO on Gyarados with SR up and Leftovers recovery. You obviously won't be able to do much to Gliscor still (dumb thing), but the stuff you can now do to Gyara should make up for it. ;)
 

Wave⁂

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I "borrowed" the EVs from a place that I don't remember much about. They allow Scizor to take Latias's Surfs relatively well while only losing around 10% of its attacking power.
What about the 20 Speed EVs?

Also, how is Celebi set-up fodder? Resists both of your attacks, often carries HP Fire or Earth Power to accompany Grass Knot / Leaf Storm, and has Leech Seed (or the occasional Thunder Wave).
 

9Kplus1

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Snip about Draco Meteor
No, I didn't forget about the Special Attack drop:

226 Atk vs 236 Def & 331 HP (140 Base Power): 144 - 171 (43.50% - 51.66%)
Draco Meteor vs Gyarados

113 Atk vs 236 Def & 331 HP (140 Base Power): 73 - 87 (22.05% - 26.28%)
-1 Draco Meteor vs Gyarados

That's around a 40% chance of a 2HKO with Stealth Rock.

The extra Attack EVs won't help much with anything; Blissey is still 3HKO'd by Outrage, Tyranitar is still 2HKO'd by Earthquake, Heatran is still OHKO'd by Earthquake, - there isn't
much of a notable difference.

Also, I did some calcing for you and discovered that a -1 Outrage from the EV spread I gave has a 54% chance of landing a 2HKO on Gyarados with SR up and Leftovers recovery.
Really? I'm getting a 19% chance of a 2HKO with Stealth Rock and Leftovers.

You obviously won't be able to do much to Gliscor still (dumb thing), but the stuff you can now do to Gyara should make up for it. ;)
Gyarados does 53% to 252/40 Jolly Gliscor - the most common spread and nature - with Waterfall on average.

Also, how is Celebi set-up fodder? Resists both of your attacks, often carries HP Fire or Earth Power to accompany Grass Knot / Leaf Storm, and has Leech Seed (or the occasional Thunder Wave).
Grass Knot does laughable damage and after the SAtk drop from Leaf Storm, Jirachi can setup multiple Calm Minds from behind a Substitute.

But if you're still not convinced:

Max Special Attack Life Orb Celebi's Grass Knot vs Jirachi: 328 Atk vs 256 Def & 404 HP (20 Base Power): 18 - 21 (4.46% - 5.20%)

Leaf Storm from the same Celebi: 328 Atk vs 256 Def & 404 HP (140 Base Power): 125 - 147 (30.94% - 36.39%)

Post-Special Attack drop: 164 Atk vs 256 Def & 404 HP (140 Base Power): 63 - 75 (15.59% - 18.56%)

+6 Psychic vs 4/0 Celebi: 1024 Atk vs 236 Def & 341 HP (95 Base Power): 221 - 261 (64.81% - 76.54%)

...lol

It's also pretty rare to see a Celebi with Hidden Power Fire and even with Hidden Power Fire, it isn't breaking Jirachi's subs after a boost. If you're referring to Tink, Jirachi only needs two Calm Minds to ensure that hidden Power Fire doesn't break its Subs.

What about the 20 Speed EVs?
They didn't have much of an impact on the spread, so I just placed them in Speed for filler. Plus, it's pretty lulzy to outplace Lanturn.
 

Circa

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No, I didn't forget about the Special Attack drop:

226 Atk vs 236 Def & 331 HP (140 Base Power): 144 - 171 (43.50% - 51.66%)
Draco Meteor vs Gyarados

113 Atk vs 236 Def & 331 HP (140 Base Power): 73 - 87 (22.05% - 26.28%)
-1 Draco Meteor vs Gyarados

That's around a 40% chance of a 2HKO with Stealth Rock.
It's a -2 drop, not -1. -1 drops the stat to .66% of the standard rate whereas -2 drops the stat to .5% of the standard rate. Although you did still give the same drop when you calculated the attack stat, so it makes no difference at this point in the discussion. Sorry about that though; I have this habit of looking at minimums when I calculate (thanks to the Counter Game), thus my concern.

The extra Attack EVs won't help much with anything; Blissey is still 3HKO'd by Outrage, Tyranitar is still 2HKO'd by Earthquake, Heatran is still OHKO'd by Earthquake, - there isn't
much of a notable difference.
Just remember that it's the small things that count. I just gave you the extra boosts because those are the moves you're going to be staying out longer with, along with what you'll mainly be killing with. The amount of extra damage you deal with those moves don't make much of a difference when a Pokemon is at full health, but when revenge killing or doing things of that matter? The extra bit of damage could be quite the deciding factor. Ah well, to each his own I guess.

Really? I'm getting a 19% chance of a 2HKO with Stealth Rock and Leftovers.
As mentioned before, -1 is .66% and -2 is .5%. If you change your calcs for that, then you should be seeing what I'm seeing. Although I was still off before. You had led me to believe that Gyarados was a base 80 in Defense, even though he's a base 79. It doesn't sound like it makes a huge difference, but if the Gyara is a 4/0 then you'll actually have about a 66% chance of landing a 2HKO. A 0/4 variant still has a 54% of being 2HKO'd though.

Gyarados does 53% to 252/40 Jolly Gliscor - the most common spread and nature - with Waterfall on average.
I...didn't think I worded what I said in an awkward way, but okay. I was telling you what Flygon was going to do to Gyarados and Gliscor respectively, not what your Gyara was going to do to Gliscor.
 

9Kplus1

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It's a -2 drop, not -1.
-1 was actually a typo, I did the calc with -2.

Just remember that it's the small things that count. I just gave you the extra boosts because those are the moves you're going to be staying out longer with, along with what you'll mainly be killing with. The amount of extra damage you deal with those moves don't make much of a difference when a Pokemon is at full health, but when revenge killing or doing things of that matter? The extra bit of damage could be quite the deciding factor. Ah well, to each his own I guess.
The boost in Attack only gives a 1% difference on average. There aren't many notable differences that come with the rise in Attack =/

I...didn't think I worded what I said in an awkward way, but okay. I was telling you what Flygon was going to do to Gyarados and Gliscor respectively, not what your Gyara was going to do to Gliscor.
Yeah, sorry about that one. I really took that as "Gyarados can't do much to Gliscor". Still, Draco Metoer does more than 50% on average to 252/0 Gliscor, which helps with Flygon's job of being a revenge killer.
 

Wave⁂

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Celebi, there will come a day where you are unable to KO a SD Lucario with Bullet Punch, while he stands with 1% HP left, and you will promptly dump all those Speed EVs into Attack after he sweeps you.

But, to each his (her?) own.
 

9Kplus1

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Celebi, there will come a day where you are unable to KO a SD Lucario with Bullet Punch, while he stands with 1% HP left, and you will promptly dump all those Speed EVs into Attack after he sweeps you.

But, to each his (her?) own.

Actually... with, or without the EVs, Scizor isn't going to OHKO Lucario on average without -2 in Defense and 3 rounds of Life Orb recoil.

And to keep my gender simple, refer to me as "Jester" from now on.
 

Wave⁂

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1. SD Lucario was just an example.
2. That's assuming the opponent only switched int Lucario once, and took no damage at all.

EDIT: Lead Aerodactyl?
 

9Kplus1

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Why is Specs Heatran Timid? I don't think it's gonna help outspeed other specific leads.
"Me said:
I play this Heatran very conservatively since it functions well as a late game sweeper and with Heatran's ability to scare a good amount of OU into not attacking...
The only Pokemon that Heatran misses a notable KO on when running Timid is the 7% chance of OHKOing LeadChamp.

1. SD Lucario was just an example.
2. That's assuming the opponent only switched int Lucario once, and took no damage at all.

EDIT: Lead Aerodactyl?
As with Flygon, the difference in power isn't noticeable at all.
 

Wave⁂

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I tried out your team a coupe times. Lead Aerodactyl is not fun. Hippowdon (especially those with Curse) is bad, he's 3HKOd by Waterfall, and can Slack Off damage or hit you with a Stone Edge. I had to resort to Heatran Overheating on him.
 

ss118

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I'm very surprised at the lack of Lopunny on this team.

The Heatran starter is going to get owned: a lot. It loses to Azelf(they set up SR, Explode, and then bring in something offensive to take the advantage while you....SR? At that point their just going to spam Psychic+Fire Blast). Sleep starters like Roserade and Smeargle, which are becoming more common, also beat you. Aerodactyl beats you. Tyranitar beats you. Hell, Gyarados beats you. Starmie and Infernape beat you. and if you're going to say that it's mainly to "beat metagross", just wait till you're hit with a scarfed one that uses trick.... that's really going to **** your **** up.

General stall teams are really going to **** you over, especially if they run something like Perish Song Celebi, which can be used to stop your Jirachi. MAchamp gets helplessly walled by Rotom, As does Scizor. Flygon at that point will be wishing it had been investing in a band over scarf(not a reccomendation). Taunt Gyarados can give you problems with a little scouting, seeing as your best reliable counter to it is.... Gyarados.

Here's what I suggest. First off, your starter. Try a Lum Berry, as sleep starters are coming back into style. I suggest using Max Speed and HP with Magma Storm(breaks sashes+traps), earth power, SR, and WoW/ Explosion. Whatever fits your fancies, really.

Flygon is fine, honestly. Helps check offensive teams with good power and coverage while threatening stall teams and U-Turning to build up damage. Not being hit by the majority of residual damage helps as well.

****ing Scizor. Personally I don't like the *******, but w/e. It works for others, I guess.

Machamp is gay. I'd suggest using

Machamp @ Leftovers
No Guard: Adamant
252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Speed
D-Punch
SE
Payback
Substitute

Honestly the gayest set ever. It will help to lure a lot of your potential trouble pokemon out and, with luck, eliminate them.

I love your Gyarados set. I really do. But the issue comes with what exactly is the paralysis and Taunt going to do? Are you expecting to flinch them to death? I'd suggest having a bit more power behind your attacks, personally, but without entry hazards off your field and none really on your side, Gyarados won't last long. I'd suggest to either put Rest over Roar(if you're not afraid of the two free turns....), or go Forrey over Scizor, who can act both as a spinner and a spiker while being a good Rotom-h lure(if you want, CB Payback probably knocks it out =P).

Jirachi is fine.

Good luck with the team. ^^
 

NJzFinest

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I completely agree with using that Machamp set Articanus posted. If you force a switch and put a sub up, your opponent basically loses 1 pokemon.
 

Wave⁂

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Probably the same person. Use of the word "lulzy" and the term "OffensiveCune" instead of "Crocune".
 

ss118

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OffensiveCune is a pokemon though.

Suicune @ Life Orb/ Leftovers
Pressure: Timid/ Modest
4 HP, 252 Speed, 252 Sp. Attack
Surf/ Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Hidden Power [Electric]
Calm Mind

Offensive teams have a problem because with it's natural bulk and wide type coverage, along with Calm Mind to boost it's sp. attack.
 

9Kplus1

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http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2339711#post2339711

either this is you and you ignored my entire post while replacing Jirachi with Lanturn, you guys think a LOT alike, or he just ripped off your ****ing team
Last edited by Oxymentus; Nov 25th, 2009 at 10:17:28 PM.
Last edited by ILoveCelebi!!208; Today at 11:10 PM.
...yeah, that's me.

Also:

Here's what I suggest. First off, your starter. Try a Lum Berry, as sleep starters are coming back into style. I suggest using Max Speed and HP with Magma Storm(breaks sashes+traps), earth power, SR, and WoW/ Explosion. Whatever fits your fancies, really.
I already made and used a LeadTran set utilizing Magma Storm. Magma Storm missed more than often and as already said, this team didn't benefit from Stealth Rock support until mid/late game. I also have Flygon to use as a scout in the case of Dual Screen Azelf.

Machamp @ Leftovers
No Guard: Adamant
252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Speed
D-Punch
SE
Payback
Substitute
Machamp has a lower chance of switching in safely and preforming its initial task of tanking through stuff with that set. Toxic Spikes also ****s this set over pretty bad and chances are that Heatran won't be able to prevent Roserade leads from setting them up.

I tried out your team a coupe times. Lead Aerodactyl is not fun. Hippowdon (especially those with Curse) is bad, he's 3HKOd by Waterfall, and can Slack Off damage or hit you with a Stone Edge. I had to resort to Heatran Overheating on him.

Two things:

1.) 538 Atk vs 196 Def & 420 HP (140 Base Power): 412 - 486 (98.10% - 115.71%)

2.) | Hippowdon | Move | Curse | 5.1 |

Also, let's not forget: | Hippowdon | Move | Stone Edge | 13.2 |

That's what I thought.


Use of the word "lulzy" and the term "OffensiveCune" instead of "Crocune".
http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/suicune
 
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