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Rohins

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
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1,585
Location
Winter Park, FL
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Rohins
Here is a match of me vs Bladewise (#1 in WA) from the tournament I went to last Saturday. It's the only match that was recorded, the computer messed up for the second match. I want all you Samus mains to observe what happens at 3:11 as I perform the self proclaimed, "Rohins Combo"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGa7AX8nigk

and in case any of you were wondering no it wasn't on purpose and yeah I was angry.
 

MGrand15

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
2
Pretty cool combo. If he knew it was coming, would he have been able to air dodge? Either way, it seems like a good way to apply pressure. Even if the power missile and the dash attack are shielded, it looks like it can really damage a shield.

*ramble*

Unrelated to the combo though, did the second match go better? It looked like you got outclassed basically. Your only kills, iirc, were spikes where his Marth got careless. I know Marth is a bad matchup for Samus but you couldn't keep him away. Was there a reason you were using the standing grab so much? I saw it was useful when he was d-tilting but generally, its only something I rarely do because its very punishable.

Another thing to think about I guess - I saw you f-smashing a lot (or more then I thought you should). This may be because my Samus is a lot more defensive and conservative but I REALLY prefer f-tilting due to its range and safeness. Anyway, I'll stop - I can talk Samus all day. =P

*end ramble*
 

Rohins

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Messages
1,585
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Winter Park, FL
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Rohins
Pretty cool combo. If he knew it was coming, would he have been able to air dodge? Either way, it seems like a good way to apply pressure. Even if the power missile and the dash attack are shielded, it looks like it can really damage a shield.

*ramble*

Unrelated to the combo though, did the second match go better? It looked like you got outclassed basically. Your only kills, iirc, were spikes where his Marth got careless. I know Marth is a bad matchup for Samus but you couldn't keep him away. Was there a reason you were using the standing grab so much? I saw it was useful when he was d-tilting but generally, its only something I rarely do because its very punishable.

Another thing to think about I guess - I saw you f-smashing a lot (or more then I thought you should). This may be because my Samus is a lot more defensive and conservative but I REALLY prefer f-tilting due to its range and safeness. Anyway, I'll stop - I can talk Samus all day. =P

*end ramble*
That 'combo' was nothing special. I was making a joke thread about my upB off the level killing myself. As far as the matchup goes, yeah I was having a rough time especially with nothing to work with from the edge. I got pretty unlucky getting this stage on random but w/e , I did pretty well.

I agree about the ftilt / fsmash thing...but I only threw about 3 fsmashes, nothing crazy. Ftilt is way better because the hitbox comes out sooner and I've never seen it whiff like fsmash.

The grabs that landed were either pretty well spaced or setup/oos. If your grab is going to land you don't have to worry about being punished. Although I'll admit those grabs when returning on stage were pretty goofy.

The main thing I see missing are bombs. The only opportunities for bombs I saw were when I was being aggressive. I could have bombed back and canceled, but we all know how vulnerable Samus is when she's in her morph ball.

Overall my main messups were getting hit by that fsmash in the beginning and SDing stupid at the end lol. I'm sure there are some things I can do differently to manage close range with Marth but I'll need to practice the matchup.

Oh yeah anyone have any insite on what to do while on the edge on Yoshi's?
 

Throwback

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
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1,249
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Green Tooth Gorge
You were holding up pretty well, especially on the last life you looked like you had the best of it. Nice combo finish!

On Yoshi's I have tried playing around with Samus' walljump, but haven't been able to do anything. Maybe you can find something.

The other thing I can think of is the ledgehopped zair with Yoshi's nice sloped edges, but I'm sure you are better at it than me - plus I don't think the Marth was hanging back enough to make that a good option, iirc.

On the bombs - I have a theory that bombs can really level the playing field with a lot of characters, the problem is that it is a) hard to pick when to bomb, and b) often easier to use a move with a more direct pay-off.

The trick is picking when you are on the defensive, and your opponent isn't about to/can't rush (I'm terrible at this!). for example, you could have bombed at the 26-28 second mark after the throw and probably still landed the d-tilt.
 

n00b

BRoomer
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midair bomb raigoth screw stock cancel ftw

i 3 stocked a metaknight with that combo
 

Rohins

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Messages
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Winter Park, FL
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Rohins
A couple of observations now looking at the vid today. Zair vs Marth on yoshi's isn't too good because of the slope of the level. You can see Bladewise run under my zair. That dip in the middle + Marth's low hurtbox while running is pretty brutal.

As for the ledge game, I think I may have figured out what I need to do. Yeah, most of Samus' ledge tricks are removed since there is a wall and a slope by the ledge, but there is that ghost platform that pops up. It might be in my best interest to wait until the ghost appears then jump to that. I usually charge mah lazor there, but if people continue to wait on level I could probably spam a few missiles from there as well.
 

Orichalcum

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
444
Location
Europe
i dont get what this is all about, an inside joke? you shouldnt have died like that on your 2nd stock, love your way of playing
 

MGrand15

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
2
Lol well I feel dumb about the'combo' thing -

Anyway, I'm guessing it wouldn't work since it seems too obvious but why wouldn't a ff f-air work while you were on the ledge? Or power missiles? I don't know, I don't like the idea of waiting for the ghost platform to show up but that's just me.

Yeah, I think the stage + the Marth matchup made it kinda difficult for you to do much.
 

Rohins

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Messages
1,585
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Winter Park, FL
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Rohins
i dont get what this is all about, an inside joke? you shouldnt have died like that on your 2nd stock, love your way of playing
I was just making fun of how I sd'd in a tournament match. Thanks for the compliment :)

Lol well I feel dumb about the'combo' thing -

Anyway, I'm guessing it wouldn't work since it seems too obvious but why wouldn't a ff f-air work while you were on the ledge? Or power missiles? I don't know, I don't like the idea of waiting for the ghost platform to show up but that's just me.

Yeah, I think the stage + the Marth matchup made it kinda difficult for you to do much.
The slope b.astardizes my typical ledge game, although I've figured out some interesting things you can do on Yoshi's now that you can't do on other levels thanks to those slopes near the ledge. The general idea is, most moves from a ledge hop are cut off early since there is a slope. This allows characters to be closer to the edge without as much threat.

The camping for the ghost idea was just a means to circumvent my need of getting on the level if I feel I can't do anything. Many times in that match I attempted to get on the level when the Marth was ready for me. I got punished nearly every time. The ledge camping may wear on my opponent's patients and entice them to approach me when I jump to the ghost and prep my beem / shoot missiles. I experiemented with it last night at a smash fest and it worked out pretty well. I'm sure people will adapt and force me back on the level, but me being on the level is one of the long term goals to begin with.

Some cool stuff though:

You can use the slope to be in a standing position quickly from a rising airdodge. I didn't mess with this too much, but being able to instantly tilt / smash / whatever from ledge seems pretty nice. These recent understandings of Yoshi's level makes me not want to ban it anymore in tournament, possibly use it as a counter pick in certain matchups.
 

0RLY

A great conversation filler at bars and parties
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
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2,681
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Temple University, Philadelphia
Yoshi's Island is one of Marth's best stages. Easy stage spike, tilting platform HELPS with comboing, and you can't get caught under the stage.

You'll definitely want the center of the stage. It makes you more difficult to approach since there's a platform above you. Marth was able to keep you away from there, which made it that much harder to play.

1st Stock

Right in the beginning, you should've held your shield longer to avoid the dancing blade, and possibly used your Screw Attack. After you baited Marth's B-up, you already learned that your foe will use his B-up out of shield frequently. Unfortunately, you got hit by A LOT of dolphin slashes. At 0:18, I bet you used dsmash to try to poke under Marth's shield. Dsmash doesn't do that, dtilt does. I'll just assume you messed up. Luckily, you weren't punished for it. You tried throwing Marth off the stage a lot. That doesn't really do ANYTHING at low %s. What you should do is dthrow or fthrow Marth onto one of the platforms, where you can take advantage of him the most. Samus does great around platforms. As soon as you landed the first uair, you had Marth in your control. However, you kinda just let the opportunity slide by shield camping. You had the chance to follow through with that platform drop uair also. Try not to rely on projectiles too much.

You successfully shielded his dancing blade, good. After that you tried to hit under his shield with dsmash again and got punished. Here comes the bthrow again... Maybe if you full hopped your dair it may have worked. Remember both you and your foe's options, because he jumped to avoid the dair. The end of your second stock was met with a failed edge return. Marth was spaced perfectly from the ledge to avoid your attacks. In that case, you should ledge drop, double jump, wall jump, turn around projectile. Force Marth away from his good spacing. If you feel too vulnerable, you can bait Marth with ledge drop, double jump airdodges (feel free to move around in the air while doing this). If you do this fast enough, you can regrab the ledge right as your air dodge ends. This is a bit harder: ledge drop, wall jump towards the stage, double jump+airdodge through Marth.

Right as you respawned, you should make the most use out of your invulnerability. My favorite is to go in for a grab. If you succeed, good. If you miss and your opponent tries to punish you, well, lets just say you'll be the one doing the punishing. I found you shielding too much and not enough spacing. Use more side steps if you feel you are vulnerable to a grab. Your failed grabs disappoint me. No setups or mindgames :(. The disappointment went away as soon as I saw your sexy spike, though! ^_^

2nd Stock

1:33-2:04 Rohins gets owned. Did you really think bthrow to edgehog would work? Naw, you know better than that! Your next stock looks a lot better, other than the failed missile cancel which tends to make people think you're a noob... Yeah, I get called a noob when I miss my MCs. Good double zair. Awesome spike! Bladewise uses too much shield breaker. This stock looked really good.

3rd Stock

Starts off good with a MC to dtilt. Partially charged shot pushes Marth just far enough for his dancing blade to miss, which nets you a grab (don't forget to pummel). Sadly, you keep using bthrow... you're not learning, are you? Bomb for zoning, okay. Punish the shield breaker with an ftilt. Okay, Samus has better punishing moves, and ftilt is a spacing tool. Nice job finally getting used to zair's timing on Yoshi's Island. Zair, missile, dash attack, bair was very cool. Missile+ftilt follow-up was nice as well, but you messed up when you tried to approach with zair. It would've been better if you retreated with it. Note how well you did during this stock because you stayed in the middle of the stage. Not going to comment on the ending. That was just too good, and you know it.
 

Orichalcum

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Messages
444
Location
Europe
i dont think you can punish shield breaker with an ftilt, can you?
Also that suicide happened to me aswell once in a match, for na apparent reason i just felt like doing upB and shortly after i said WTF out loud
 

Gum

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
470
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Everywhere you wanna be
You were holding up pretty well, especially on the last life you looked like you had the best of it. Nice combo finish!

On the bombs - I have a theory that bombs can really level the playing field with a lot of characters, the problem is that it is a) hard to pick when to bomb, and b) often easier to use a move with a more direct pay-off.

The trick is picking when you are on the defensive, and your opponent isn't about to/can't rush (I'm terrible at this!). for example, you could have bombed at the 26-28 second mark after the throw and probably still landed the d-tilt.
Iv'e been saying this forever. One thing to note is that most MK and Marths rush in as soon as you SH missile or zair so that they can get under it. You can bomb as soon as you land in order to create a barrier. As dumb as it sounds, they have to react to the bomb or get hit, in which case you still have the advantage.
 

Rohins

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Messages
1,585
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Winter Park, FL
NNID
Rohins
Yoshi's Island is one of Marth's best stages. Easy stage spike, tilting platform HELPS with comboing, and you can't get caught under the stage.

You'll definitely want the center of the stage. It makes you more difficult to approach since there's a platform above you. Marth was able to keep you away from there, which made it that much harder to play.

1st Stock

Right in the beginning, you should've held your shield longer to avoid the dancing blade, and possibly used your Screw Attack. After you baited Marth's B-up, you already learned that your foe will use his B-up out of shield frequently. Unfortunately, you got hit by A LOT of dolphin slashes. At 0:18, I bet you used dsmash to try to poke under Marth's shield. Dsmash doesn't do that, dtilt does. I'll just assume you messed up. Luckily, you weren't punished for it. You tried throwing Marth off the stage a lot. That doesn't really do ANYTHING at low %s. What you should do is dthrow or fthrow Marth onto one of the platforms, where you can take advantage of him the most. Samus does great around platforms. As soon as you landed the first uair, you had Marth in your control. However, you kinda just let the opportunity slide by shield camping. You had the chance to follow through with that platform drop uair also. Try not to rely on projectiles too much.

You successfully shielded his dancing blade, good. After that you tried to hit under his shield with dsmash again and got punished. Here comes the bthrow again... Maybe if you full hopped your dair it may have worked. Remember both you and your foe's options, because he jumped to avoid the dair. The end of your second stock was met with a failed edge return. Marth was spaced perfectly from the ledge to avoid your attacks. In that case, you should ledge drop, double jump, wall jump, turn around projectile. Force Marth away from his good spacing. If you feel too vulnerable, you can bait Marth with ledge drop, double jump airdodges (feel free to move around in the air while doing this). If you do this fast enough, you can regrab the ledge right as your air dodge ends. This is a bit harder: ledge drop, wall jump towards the stage, double jump+airdodge through Marth.

Right as you respawned, you should make the most use out of your invulnerability. My favorite is to go in for a grab. If you succeed, good. If you miss and your opponent tries to punish you, well, lets just say you'll be the one doing the punishing. I found you shielding too much and not enough spacing. Use more side steps if you feel you are vulnerable to a grab. Your failed grabs disappoint me. No setups or mindgames :(. The disappointment went away as soon as I saw your sexy spike, though! ^_^

2nd Stock

1:33-2:04 Rohins gets owned. Did you really think bthrow to edgehog would work? Naw, you know better than that! Your next stock looks a lot better, other than the failed missile cancel which tends to make people think you're a noob... Yeah, I get called a noob when I miss my MCs. Good double zair. Awesome spike! Bladewise uses too much shield breaker. This stock looked really good.

3rd Stock

Starts off good with a MC to dtilt. Partially charged shot pushes Marth just far enough for his dancing blade to miss, which nets you a grab (don't forget to pummel). Sadly, you keep using bthrow... you're not learning, are you? Bomb for zoning, okay. Punish the shield breaker with an ftilt. Okay, Samus has better punishing moves, and ftilt is a spacing tool. Nice job finally getting used to zair's timing on Yoshi's Island. Zair, missile, dash attack, bair was very cool. Missile+ftilt follow-up was nice as well, but you messed up when you tried to approach with zair. It would've been better if you retreated with it. Note how well you did during this stock because you stayed in the middle of the stage. Not going to comment on the ending. That was just too good, and you know it.
How did I miss this post? Great observations, I didn't even realize how poor my throws were (repetitive, not capitalizing on grabs etc.) I'll keep in mind the advice and try to step up my game for next time I meet him in tournament.
 
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