Charizard Down Throw Combo's 1.1.5

[Jmacz]

EDIT:

So I wasn't aware that training mode was inaccurate even if you tested DI, so none of these numbers are accurate all so don't trust them. They can still work at some points but not nearly as late as the numbers I have posted. They still do seem to work with bad DI up to about 70-90%. I've gotten a lot of kills by tricking people into thinking they could DI up to get away from my F-Air at early percents, then hitting them with an Up-Air when they think it's safe at 90%. F-Air at the ledge works at 80%ish for a kill but if they DI away you can't be to close because you need to run, rage only makes this harder. I can't tell for sure if these confirm but they certainly seem like they do, especially Up-Air with DI Up. I've also had situations at higher percents when I grab them near the ledge when they are at to high of a percent to confirm and follow them offstage. If they airdodge it's an easy Up-Air. You can probably hit a fly if they jump away or throw out an attack but I haven't had this happen yet.

Ever since the patch came out I've been testing to the best of my ability just how much this air speed buff changed things. Though D-Throw is very influenced by DI and it takes different approaches and the proper read to hit depending on which way they DI. I have been testing this on Omega Kalos Pokemon League. What I've been doing is for DI Away, I simply put the controller in my lap and after I grab the other character I move left/right on the thumbstick then try the combo. For DI Up and DI Up/Away I use a rubber band. Also as a note, I'm not the greatest at this game. I'm having a lot of trouble dashing, double jumping, and buffering an aerial out of the double jump which is essential for comboing when they DI away or away and up. The timing for it is really tricky, you have to dash a certain amount and then double jump at the right time (for some it's a short hop double jump, some you have to do it right before max height, sometimes at max height etc). So a lot of the combos I say don't work, may actually work. And the ones I say work, may work even later than the percents I list (especially DI Away or DI Up and Away). I'll put a note next to any that I think may work/work longer. If anyone finds any discrepancy's, or wants to test another character feel free to post it here and I'll add it to the OP as well as credit you for it. I plan on doing at least two characters every day or so. And I'll try to get N-Air added to Marth and Falco tomorrow, I just got lazy. Anyways here's to the results.

Mario:

D-Throw to F-Air: For all of these I feel like someone better than I may be able to connect with these another 5% or so later as I feel I'm just a few frames off from making it register.

D-Throw to F-Air/No DI: 0-106%
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Away: 0-101%
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Up: 0-101%
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Up and Away : 0-95%


Kills with lightning bolt after grab at the ledge at 77% with no DI.

D-Throw to U-Air: I'm really really bad at this one, I couldn't get it to connect at all with DI Up and Away but I feel like once again I just can't get the timing right. You have to dash the right amount and then full hop while buffering the U-Air, so I keep either dashing to short/long or jump canceling and up smashing.

D-Throw to U-Air/No DI: 0-100%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Away: Doesn't work.
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up: 0-105%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up and Away: Can't get to register. Someone else may be able to get it.

Kills with lighting bolt at 89% with no DI.

D-Throw to N-Air:

D-Throw to N-Air/No DI: 0-83%
D-Throw to N-Air/DI Away: Doesn't work
D-Throw to N-Air/DI Up: 0-83%
D-Throw to N-air/DI Up and Away: Doesn't work


Luigi:

D-Throw to F-Air: Having a lot more trouble on the DI Away and Up and Away compared to Mario. Someone else may be able to push it to the mid 90's. I'll give it another go tomorrow as well.

D-Throw to F-Air/No DI: 0-105%
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Away 0-85% (Having Trouble with this one, almost said not possible. Finally got it to register at 85% in 1/2 speed)
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Up: 0-113%
D-Throw to F-Air/Up and Away: 0-85% (Also having trouble with this one, these were the reasons I didn't do more.)

Lighting Bolt after grab at ledge at 78% with no DI.

D-Throw to U-Air: Again having trouble when I have to dash, double jump, and buffer an aerial out of the double jump. The Up and Away DI may be possible, I just need more practice at this which is one of the reasons I'm doing this.

D-Throw to U-Air/No DI: 0-80%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Away: Not Possible
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up: 0-104%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up and Away: Can't hit/not possible someone else might want to give this a go.

Kills with lightning bolt after grab at 83% with no DI.

D-Throw to N-Air:

D-Throw to N-Air/No DI: 0-55%
D-Throw to N-Air/DI Away: Not Possible
D-Throw to N-Air/DI Up: 0-57%
D-Throw to N-Air/DI Up and Away: Not Possible

Marth:

UP THROW TO FLARE BLITZ WORKS!!!!!!

Actually it doesn't, it looks like if they DI Down and Away you can get out buy my friend won't tell me. You can hit them if you don't jump and side B but it doesn't register.

Up-Throw to Flare Blitz/Any DI: 40% (I didn't test other percents)

Kills with Lightning Bolt at ledge.

D-Throw to F-Air:

D-Throw to F-Air/No DI: 0-145%
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Away: 0-120% (Can probably get more out of this, 100/110 was easy, 120% took forever.)
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Up: 0-150%
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Up and Away: 0-115% (Can probably get more out of this, only one that's given me trouble the whole time with Marth so far. Took a quite few tries just to get it at 100%)

Lighting Bolt after grab at the ledge after grab at 85% with no DI.

D-Throw to U-Air

D-Throw to U-Air/No DI: 0-150%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Away: Not Possible
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up: 0-160%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up and Away: 0-90% (Finally got U-Air to register here, spent a lot of time because I knew I was really close. Really makes me think this is possible on Mario/Luigi as well. Probably possible a bit later than 90% as well)

Lighting Bolt after grab at 86% with no DI.

Falco: *Side note for Falco, D-Throw to U-Smash seemed to work at 0% though I didn't test with DI. Found it right before I was getting off*

D-Throw to F-Air:

D-Throw to F-Air/No DI: 0-135%
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Away: 0-110% (Might be able to get more out of this)
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Up: 0-145%
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Up and Away: 0-105% (I just gave up here, so close at 110% and 120%, pretty sure it's possible.)

Lighting Bolt after grab at the ledge at 78% with no DI.

D-Throw to U-Air:

D-Throw to U-Air/No DI: 30-135%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Away: Not possible
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up: 0-155%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up and Away: Not possible/Can't connect someone else might be able to.

Lighting Bolt after grab at 81% with no DI.

DK:

D-Throw to F-Air:

D-Throw to F-Air/No DI: 0-170%
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Away: 0-160%
D-Throw to F-Air DI Up: 0-160%
D-Throw to F-Air/DI Up and Away: 0-150%

Kills with grab at the ledge at 105% with No DI.

D-Throw to U-Air:

D-Throw to U-Air/No DI: 0-170%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Away: Doesn't work
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up: 0-195%
D-Throw to U-Air/DI Up and Away: 0-110%

Kills after grab at 105% No DI









This will probably be my last update, doing this is very boring and frustrating. And it also makes my finger hurt from jumping so much lol. I think I learned enough from this though. Fair is going to be guaranteed until at least 90% on most of the cast, even further on some. Then if they try to DI up, we can get an U-air and kill super early. One thing I've been doing is whiffing F-Airs on purpose early percent when they DI Up. That way they think it's safe so when you get them to about 90% you can hit them with the quick U-Air.

 

[Jmacz]

[RESERVED]

Because who knows how long this will be.

 

[Marrow]

I think DThrow > RAR Bair works, though the timing is strict. I can't test with DI since i'm one guy in training mode, but it has registered as true, even getting the sweetspot. if someone were to master the timing, it could be the new dthrow knee.

 

[Steeler]

Dthrow has more angles they can DI at, if they DI straight up they probably won't ever get hit by bair. Legit if they DI away at low mid percent tho

 

[Jmacz]

I'll try it on Marth next time I do some testing because he seems the easiest to hit this kind of stuff. Just got home from work now, but I grabbed Pokken before and I really wanna play it so I'll probably do some more testing Sunday (working 1pm to 1 am tomorrow). I have a feeling that Steeler may be right and that it's not true if you DI Up or Up and Away. What percents have you been testing it at?

 

[Jmacz]

Sorry for the double post, just wanted to update this one last time. This just takes to long and I'm getting way to bored/frustrated doing this so it will probably be the last update on this. Just added DK so there was at least one heavy. Also I tested D-Throw to B-air and only got it to work once on Sheik at 0% with no DI so it's kinda there I'm just really bad with the timing.

I still really think that we can get even more out of the combo's than I'm posting. For DI away and DI Up and Away you have to dash the perfect amount, and as the percent goes up it goes just a tiny bit longer. Then at a certain point you have to start timing when you use your double jump. At first you just mash jump twice until eventually you have to wait until Charizard reaches max height on his first jump before you double jump. And all of this you have to do in addition to dashing the perfect amount AND buffering F-Air/U-Air out of the double jump. As you can see this is driving me crazy, but if anyone else finds any new combos out of D-Throw I'll be glad to update them here. I still may come back to this one day once I get better, or if there is another patch. But for now I feel like I should just be playing more Anthers Ladder or something, and not sitting in training mode doing this.

 

[charizardbro]

I think DThrow > RAR Bair works, though the timing is strict. I can't test with DI since i'm one guy in training mode, but it has registered as true, even getting the sweetspot. if someone were to master the timing, it could be the new dthrow knee.

Perfect pivot bair worked on DI away and no DI prepatch and killed with non-immediate DI in. It could kill post patch with good DI though. Ill test it and report back. Holy **** did they buff my (our) character.

Edit:

Sorry for the double post, just wanted to update this one last time. This just takes to long and I'm getting way to bored/frustrated doing this so it will probably be the last update on this. Just added DK so there was at least one heavy. Also I tested D-Throw to B-air and only got it to work once on Sheik at 0% with no DI so it's kinda there I'm just really bad with the timing.

I still really think that we can get even more out of the combo's than I'm posting. For DI away and DI Up and Away you have to dash the perfect amount, and as the percent goes up it goes just a tiny bit longer. Then at a certain point you have to start timing when you use your double jump. At first you just mash jump twice until eventually you have to wait until Charizard reaches max height on his first jump before you double jump. And all of this you have to do in addition to dashing the perfect amount AND buffering F-Air/U-Air out of the double jump. As you can see this is driving me crazy, but if anyone else finds any new combos out of D-Throw I'll be glad to update them here. I still may come back to this one day once I get better, or if there is another patch. But for now I feel like I should just be playing more Anthers Ladder or something, and not sitting in training mode doing this.

Dthrow to perfect pivit bair works up until about 55% on Sheik with DI away prepatch. I'm sure it will be a little better post patch. At lower percents you should just turn around and bair. RAR did not work prepatch.
You should also map your L button to jump and your c stick to tilts/attacks rather than smashes for this sort of stuff. It makes labbing way easier. L is good for trying to get fair and uair. C stick is useful for fair and uair as well. The only combo I would stick to x/y and the left stick/a button for is dthrow -> bair.

I'm actually super hype about these buffs so im gonna lab the hell out of it in the coming weeks dw

 

[Jmacz]

Perfect pivot bair worked on DI away and no DI prepatch and killed with non-immediate DI in. It could kill post patch with good DI though. Ill test it and report back. Holy **** did they buff my (our) character.

Edit:


Dthrow to perfect pivit bair works up until about 55% on Sheik with DI away prepatch. I'm sure it will be a little better post patch. At lower percents you should just turn around and bair. RAR did not work prepatch.
You should also map your L button to jump and your c stick to tilts/attacks rather than smashes for this sort of stuff. It makes labbing way easier. L is good for trying to get fair and uair. C stick is useful for fair and uair as well. The only combo I would stick to x/y and the left stick/a button for is dthrow -> bair.

I'm actually super hype about these buffs so im gonna lab the hell out of it in the coming weeks dw

That's why I wasn't getting it to register, I wasn't perfect pivoting. And I do have my Z button set to jump, couldn't get short hopping down with the L button. I feel more comfortable with Z anyways after years of playing Halo. I just have issues concentrating on dashing a certain amount, jumping a certain height, and then buffering the aerial out of my double jump. And is there any difference with smash stick and attack stick for aerials? I still use my c-stick for everything but N-Air.

This also shows that training mode is inaccurate, even with testing DI. I wasn't aware of this, which explains why my friend could escape Up-Throw Flare Blitz despite it registering as a combo with all my DI tests. So I'm going to be unable to be do any more testing without another person.