Character viability who can place top 3

[Lunchmanjeff]

It seems like there are 7 viable characters Fox(Duh), falco,marth,jigglypuff,pikachu,Peach, and falcon. I chose top 3 because you can still make money without winning a major just placing very high. I want to know if anyone agrees or disagrees and explain exactly why.

Edit: In melee

 

[Doc Monocle]

It seems like there are 7 viable characters Fox(Duh), falco,marth,jigglypuff,pikachu,Peach, and falcon. I chose top 3 because you can still make money without winning a major just placing very high. I want to know if anyone agrees or disagrees and explain exactly why.

Viability, in my opinion (which is quite lowly), is not contingent on one's choice of character, but is a function of the sums of subjective inputs of players as to what extent each asset in the character's move set contributes to the attainment of an objective. This in turn is determined by the playstyle-- the general strategy -- taken by players, and the players' experience with the character. So I may generate a top 3 tier list for zoners, for brawlers, for rushers... However, what might be bottom tier in one category could be unrivaled in another, rendering all characters 'most viable,' unless their computed utilities fall beneath an appropriate joke constant (a term I coined). This last bit, however, would only occur on the part of a deliberate effort by developers to make competing using the character in question a laughable experience.

 

[Lunchmanjeff]

it seems like with melee specifically if that were the case than fox would just dominate most of those lists with various other characters along the way. not to mention, there are so many categories that I wouldn't even know where to begin.

 

[Doc Monocle]

it seems like with melee specifically if that were the case than fox would just dominate most of those lists with various other characters along the way. not to mention, there are so many categories that I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Unfortunately, I am a Brawl maroon, so my thoughts may seem second-quality since they have little validation experimentally (I rely on professional players to be my eyes for the time being). However, I can say that you are right. There are many combat categories. Perhaps there are more than official documents recognize.

I would ask whether Melee plays similarly enough to Brawl that I may offer input that is at least somewhat justified. Is this so?

 

[Lunchmanjeff]

Unfortunately, I am a Brawl maroon, so my thoughts may seem second-quality since they have little validation experimentally (I rely on professional players to be my eyes for the time being). However, I can say that you are right. There are many combat categories. Perhaps there are more than official documents recognize.

I would ask whether Melee plays similarly enough to Brawl that I may offer input that is at least somewhat justified. Is this so?

The movement just isn't the same and that's what makes a lot of the game different from the others, the only character who is even close to the speed of melee would be meta knight, but other than that they are pretty different for being both smash games.

 

[Doc Monocle]

The movement just isn't the same and that's what makes a lot of the game different from the others, the only character who is even close to the speed of melee would be meta knight, but other than that they are pretty different for being both smash games.

Hmmm... It is unfortunate that I cannot be of satisfactory, concrete input. I hope my suggestion to the contradiction of the 'aristocracy of smash competence' argument is at least partially relevant:

Fox is fast, but as a result, the Fox player himself/herself must be one step ahead of Fox's actions at close or medium range, or else he will get cramped out by higher priority attacks. That is, the player must think in dyads of steps, or Fox will prove easy to overpower. Because his attacks are so quick and have short hit windows and range, it is easy for the player to attack prematurely. This can be exploited by knowledgeable opponents. He works best as a get-in-get-out character, and does not do well without an immediate follow up to a previous action in tight spaces.

Falco, being much slower, is easier to control, and has greater hit consistency, but his attacks are of limited use when he is threatened from multiple angles in a short period of time without landing a hit.

Marth is challenged by the interference of his attacks (which additionally have short hit windows) with his mobility, forcing him to attempt multiple quick, short-lived strikes. This can be exploited by provoking him to rush from a predictable distance (which is especially good news since he is without projectiles or horizontal boosting attacks). He also has difficulty pressuring opponents that are calmly and methodically moving away from him.

Jigglypuff is 'squishy' and terrible on the ground, but excellent in the air, so with the right prediction and baiting methods, it can be 'roofed' in. Do not let it gain an altitude advantage, or its aerial attacks combined with its jumps, side special, and airspeed act effectively as a large, grounded character that has good reach and the ability to hit and run.

I am not sure what the best way of describing Pikachu's and Peach's shortcomings in terms of viability is, but for Captain Falcon, I refer you to this.

 

[BIG D Was Taken]

It seems like there are 7 viable characters Fox(Duh), falco,marth,jigglypuff,pikachu,Peach, and falcon. I chose top 3 because you can still make money without winning a major just placing very high. I want to know if anyone agrees or disagrees and explain exactly why.

Edit: In melee

gonna steal lots of this from Asum's video but idc, first, let's qualify what viable means;
"Viable, capable of working successfully; feasible."
Luigi, Ice climbers, samus, yoshi and dr mario all have had at some recent point shown potential to win a major / super major, ( i expect Amsa to do some pretty insane things once covid is over but because of the travel restrictions we can't really see him play melee anymore)

Sheik : Plup's sheik has had massive wins over tons of top players and multiple super major/major wins, the only reason that she is considered to not have won a super major yet is because they're weren't won solo. Plup used fox as a secondary against hungrybox, hungrybox and hungrybox.

Yoshi : Amsa is so good at yoshi that the melee script writters had to create covid19 to stop him. Same as Plup, tons of victories against everyone in the top 5.

Ganon : ganon has already gotten into lots of top 8's and beat top players but they're mostly old so this one is filled with doubt

Dr Mario : remember shroomed ?

Ice Climbers : wins against pretty much everyone in top 5 + every god expect Armada, consistent top 8.

Luigi : Plup's luigi is insane but he's not used much since its not worth the risk. Wins against S2J and Druggedfox but few top 8's.

Samus : recent wins against most top players, loads of top 8. Duck is our overlord.

 

[Lunchmanjeff]

gonna steal lots of this from Asum's video but idc, first, let's qualify what viable means;
"Viable, capable of working successfully; feasible."
Luigi, Ice climbers, samus, yoshi and dr mario all have had at some recent point shown potential to win a major / super major, ( i expect Amsa to do some pretty insane things once covid is over but because of the travel restrictions we can't really see him play melee anymore)

Sheik : Plup's sheik has had massive wins over tons of top players and multiple super major/major wins, the only reason that she is considered to not have won a super major yet is because they're weren't won solo. Plup used fox as a secondary against hungrybox, hungrybox and hungrybox.

Yoshi : Amsa is so good at yoshi that the melee script writters had to create covid19 to stop him. Same as Plup, tons of victories against everyone in the top 5.

Ganon : ganon has already gotten into lots of top 8's and beat top players but they're mostly old so this one is filled with doubt

Dr Mario : remember shroomed ?

Ice Climbers : wins against pretty much everyone in top 5 + every god expect Armada, consistent top 8.

Luigi : Plup's luigi is insane but he's not used much since its not worth the risk. Wins against S2J and Druggedfox but few top 8's.

Samus : recent wins against most top players, loads of top 8. Duck is our overlord.

I agree with a lot of that actually, sadly shroomed is now playing sheik.

 

[BIG D Was Taken]

I agree with a lot of that actually, sadly shroomed is now playing sheik.

i have no memory of that, all that i can remember about a man named "shroomed" is that he played dr mario and then he dissapeared