Character Air Speed

[Altanic]

I made a similar post about this in then official 3.6b forum, but I wanted to make a thread because I haven't seen this menioned yet anywhere. I think this might be something that really creates a more natural movement and combo experience.



[I would like to note a few things gameplay-wise that I would personally change in the next update, or future release depending on the amount of effort required. Just a couple things I've noticed switching between PM and Melee a lot these past few days.

One thing is noticed is that, other than Captain Falcon (maybe more, I didn't review the entire roster, but a majority of it), characters carry the same aerial momentum whether they are sprinting at full speed or walking at full speed. I noticed this difference when switching from Melee to PM while training with Fox. After dashing and jumping, his aerial speed does not match his dashing speed as it would in Melee. I first noticed this while doing nairs. Fox would short hop, nair, and then a few frames after hitting his air speed will significantly decrease, almost to a standstill. Now, I know that this could be semi-counteracted by doing -->, A, -->, to continue forward with his aerial momentum, but that doesn't take away that his air speed is the same whether you are running or walking full speed.]

Please, by all means, test this for yourself and give your thoughts. Use Fox on training stage, and go to a space where you can line up with a dark line. Facing one direction, sprint forward and short hop before your feet cross the line and let go of the control stick so you stop moving past the point of the initial jump. Repeat while walking forward instead of dashing. Notice that you went the same distance. With Fox you should travel between 3-4 blocks, running or walking.

I mentioned increasing the running speed of Falco and Mario. But honestly, I think that changing the amount of momentum they carry when dashing will make that unnecessary.

I do want to mention a thought on smoothing wavedashes as well. In Melee, characters have the same jump and land squat animations, which I think is the reason why wavedashes seem to look more fluid. Wavedashing on PM works just as fluidly as on Melee, this would just be a way to make them look better. Maybe? In thought I suppose. There could be more to it, I'm not a developer, but these are some observations.


edit:
Well just confirmed that it's the same on Melee, Fox goes the same speed running or walking. Though, he does move faster overall in the air, like he just carries more momentum. Maybe that's just what should be altered, more forward momentum.

 

[ECHOnce]

You're misinterpreting how jumping momentum works; you're relying on buffering the directional input from before the jump squat animation, so you're restricted to doing so from either a standing or dashing position. When you press jump, a character enters a 3-6 frame jump squat animation, and then goes airborne on the next frame. However much the control stick is being held horizontally on the last frame of the jump squat is what determines their momentum. Try it; you can jump straight up out of dash with Falcon, or jump his max distance forwards/backwards from a standing position.

The reason why you may be noticing a difference (and that's a big maybe...) is that PM registers characters as airborne one frame sooner iirc, so you have one frame less to input the jump momentum. That said, one frame is really quick, and if you weren't aware of the above, it's unlikely that 1/60 of a second would have influenced you so much, despite the fact that you seem to have tested this a bit and gotten the same results consistently in either game. The next most likely explanation is that you're wrong; they are going the same distances for your inputs, but because of character model size differences, they visually look different. (Brawl character models are slightly larger than Melee's. This doesn't technically affect gameplay because the hurtboxes extend past the models in Melee; the hurtboxes are the same size in Brawl, and the larger character model just matches them more seamlessly)

 

[Altanic]

You're misinterpreting how jumping momentum works; you're relying on buffering the directional input from before the jump squat animation, so you're restricted to doing so from either a standing or dashing position. When you press jump, a character enters a 3-6 frame jump squat animation, and then goes airborne on the next frame. However much the control stick is being held horizontally on the last frame of the jump squat is what determines their momentum. Try it; you can jump straight up out of dash with Falcon, or jump his max distance forwards/backwards from a standing position.

The reason why you may be noticing a difference (and that's a big maybe...) is that PM registers characters as airborne one frame sooner iirc, so you have one frame less to input the jump momentum. That said, one frame is really quick, and if you weren't aware of the above, it's unlikely that 1/60 of a second would have influenced you so much, despite the fact that you seem to have tested this a bit and gotten the same results consistently in either game. The next most likely explanation is that you're wrong; they are going the same distances for your inputs, but because of character model size differences, they visually look different. (Brawl character models are slightly larger than Melee's. This doesn't technically affect gameplay because the hurtboxes extend past the models in Melee; the hurtboxes are the same size in Brawl, and the larger character model just matches them more seamlessly)

I think what I was actually noticing was the difference in forward speed between the dash and in midair. Using Fox as an example still, the amount of the speed that is lost during his jump after sprinting felt sort of abrupt. Though when switching to Falco, he seemed to keep much more speed horizontally. Maybe that's just his design, being that he kills more horizontally? Maybe coming from a Melee background, I'm used to the characters moving a little faster in general, but some characters do seem to just have lower air mobility than before. Falco is notably faster on his feet in Melee than in PM. It could just be me also noticing the overall speed difference between both games.

I'm trying to keep in mind that they aren't going for a 1:1 melee clone, and they aren't working with the melee engine. I guess I just really like how fast the characters move, and would like a faster feeling PM in comparison. Not that PM is slow, because its not. It's just like, trying to find that happy medium I guess?

I was aware of what you had mentioned, and I measured the distances by using the PM training stage and Pokemon Stadium on Melee.