Casual: Doc

[MarioMariox2]

What do you think about Doc? (not necessarily in the competitive doc v mario sense but what do you do with him?)

For me, I play Doc if I ever wanted to sandbag with Mario.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

I play doc to feel like a more successful Mario with a PHD

 

[MarioMariox2]

I play doc to feel like a more successful Mario with a PHD

Sound like what a Doc main would say D:

 

[Lordydennek]

I play doc when i want to lose

 

[MarioMariox2]

I play doc when i want to lose

Hah, there we go. Wait... Is this gonna turn into a bash Doc topic? o.O

 

[Lordydennek]

lol no i just suck with him CRITIQUE MAH VID

 

[MarioMariox2]

lol no i just suck with him CRITIQUE MAH VID

PM the link.

 

[Lordydennek]

its on the main mario board dude. i made a new thread for it

 

[Blanky]

i like doc. transitioning from mario to doc is a bit awkward for me. the pills are way more useful in comparison to mario's fireballs, but i feel mario can pull off a lot more combos. it is, however, a lot easier to kill with doc.

mario's wavedash is much better imho. smoother and more distance. doc is good for slower fingers.

 

[MarioMariox2]

i like doc. transitioning from mario to doc is a bit awkward for me. the pills are way more useful in comparison to mario's fireballs, but i feel mario can pull off a lot more combos. it is, however, a lot easier to kill with doc.

mario's wavedash is much better imho. smoother and more distance. doc is good for slower fingers.

True. I feel slow with Doc :\ Though the metagame today may not agree, I believe what was said in the old Mario guide: "Mario for high-end play, Doc for low-end play"

 

[condemned_soul]

which makes mario better.....not by much but still better. Thats all i want to hear

 

[MarioMariox2]

which makes mario better.....not by much but still better. Thats all i want to hear

Amen, Condemned.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Doc is better against Ganondorf and Sheik, otherwise I don't really care to use him in most matchups.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

Doc is better against Ganondorf and Sheik, otherwise I don't really care to use him in most matchups.

he's good against puff too

 

[A2ZOMG]

All Doc has against Jiggs over Mario is random F-airs out of grabs at the right percents. Getting grabs against Jiggs honestly is also pretty random, as is landing most ground moves not named F-tilt and U-tilt in this matchup. For the most part I really don't think the matchup for Mario and Doc vs Jiggs is really any different.

The only two matchups high tierish matchups where Doc I think is noticeably better are against Sheik and Ganon, who both Mario and Doc can kinda easily get in on on the ground, but Doc clearly likes having a better D-smash and F-air when he needs kills.

Actually I almost forgot. He's probably better against Samus too. But against Spacies, Peach, Jiggs, Marth, and the ICs, I'd consider it mostly down to preference. And against Falcon, Mario is definitely better.

 

[condemned_soul]

Link, Roy, and Doc are in mario's category(even though doc Dtilt can lead to fair).

 

[MarioMariox2]

And against Falcon, Mario is definitely better.

Haha, what makes you think that? (Looks at all our mario v falco videos)

 

[M@1funk$hun]

I love the abundance of VS Falcon vids
cuz on long island it's like half falcon half fox lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

Haha, what makes you think that? (Looks at all our mario v falco videos)

Mario's combos on Falcon work earlier (both Mario and Doc actually suck at comboing Falcon at 0, although Mario's F-air at 0 does the trick nicely, plus his U-air's slightly higher knockback gives the edge) and he has a better way to create a 50/50 for bad DI between sweetspot N-air and U-air when juggling, he gimps Falcon basically just as easily as Doc with his tools, his U-tilt is better in this matchup, those are the main reasons.

Plus random disjointed F-smash shenanigans are always useful.

Basically you have to be more precise with Mario in knowing what purpose your moves serve against Falcon, but your moves get better synergy in that matchup than Doc's do. Mario can more efficiently combo Falcon and then get him offstage for an easy gimp.

This is by far my most played matchup anyhow. I think it's very close to even for Mario, while Doc clearly loses about 6/4 to 65/35, since he has to work harder to combo and get Falcon offstage, and his extra KO power for the most part isn't quite that practical against Falcon, who is heavy and very resistant to vertical KOs.

 

[condemned_soul]

isnt it weird that falcon is the most played against character by mario mains.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falcon users are reasonably common, and it's a very fun matchup. I think it's pretty logical.

 

[-PM-]

Doc vs mario on a small map doc normally wins, nuff said ;P


But in a general FD doc vs mario, doc gets it. It just depends if the mario can actually get the kill rather then just combo'ing and getting %. A lot of marios have an issue finishing their food. Many people argue the fact that docs u-b suck but in honestly it comes down to who can not get caped in the matchup. Also its mostly about gimps for mario and doc. In my opinion it depends on which map is being played.


Mario vs Falcon is hard for a falcon that isn't expecting it. Soul ***** me this weekend. haha.

 

[Blanky]

man i love the falcon match up haha it's fun as hell.

 

[MarioMariox2]

I know they say Roy is Mario's punching bag but Falcon seems so easy to combo when you get things going :D

 

[condemned_soul]

Doc vs mario on a small map doc normally wins, nuff said ;P


But in a general FD doc vs mario, doc gets it. It just depends if the mario can actually get the kill rather then just combo'ing and getting %. A lot of marios have an issue finishing their food. Many people argue the fact that docs u-b suck but in honestly it comes down to who can not get caped in the matchup. Also its mostly about gimps for mario and doc. In my opinion it depends on which map is being played.


Mario vs Falcon is hard for a falcon that isn't expecting it. Soul ***** me this weekend. haha.

you forgot the Dtilt>fair that Doc can do to mario.

you wouldnt believe how many falcons I play lol.

 

[-PM-]

If a falcon knows what he's doing he'll always out space you with nairs and dair to land behind you so you can't do anything about it. The only thing that makes falcon mario an okay match up is the fact that almost every time you can cape him, and combo him to poop.

 

[A2ZOMG]

On anticipation, Mario can really effectively counter Falcon's approach with his tilts. My preferred tactic in the Falcon matchup is just waiting and throwing out U-tilts and Up-angled F-tilts if I see/read the jump forward, and occasionally mixing up with my occasional N-air/U-air approach. Cape usually isn't the best answer for edgeguarding him. One B-air offstage usually is enough to gimp him.

D-throw -> Smash is heavily underused by both Doc and Mario in this matchup. Specifically D-throw -> D-smash to get Falcon offstage, which does more damage and knockback than B-throw (although most Falcons will try to DI towards center stage keep in mind). U-throw -> D-smash is also underused at low percents. F-air -> Grab/D-smash at 0 is an EXCELLENT option for Mario, while Doc doesn't have as much to do against Falcon at 0% besides spacing.

 

[j3ly]

lol i never thought of up angled ftilts against falcon. do u play shiek? dirty mind

anticipation is no good. If you whiff it (or get DD baited into doing one) you will get hit. react with utilt, or wd back fsmash. wd back dtilt if he is above 85% and you want to humiliate him punish roll/missed tech if possible

 

[A2ZOMG]

The good news is that Falcon's Knee has fairly bad priority, and good DI usually makes it hard for him to get a really hard punish consistently. I think even just trying to punish Falcon's approach on a read is worthwhile (especially if your F-tilt gets him offstage, or if your U-tilt combos him), although of course, the aim is to react to his jump. Most Falcon players usually only try silly high damage tacticss if you're in some kind of disadvantaged position, so the risk of trying to wall him with tilts from neutral position usually isn't that bad.

I don't like WD backwards against Falcon since N-air tends to beat it. If he's DDing a lot I usually try to N-air.

I kinda use Sheik on the side, and I'm trying to make her my tournament main for Melee. Not having much success with that at the moment though, so I'm still maining Mario right now until I get comfortable with Sheik. I'll never drop Mario though. Especially not in favor of Doc, although I do prefer Doc against Ganon.