Captain Falcon Labbing

[Rachman]

if you want to ask me questions about anything ask me here. Not going to respond to dms and such so that I can explain it once for everyone

Decided to start posting stuff either already known but not well known enough/not commonly implemented, or just stuff I randomly find

Something I personally forgot about is aerial RTC on plats This is trivial in difficulty compared to on the ground, as you can react much much later. This is because there's no need for dashing frames nor jump start up/squat frames Imo this mixed with 3/4 option coverage stomps is ideal. When someone is mixing up in vs away it becomes a50/50 for me right now, which isn't ideal. Option coverage is an ok default. When I'm wrong, I should up stomp ledge cancel grabs more often, or unblockables, like shown in the video below


Reminder: I generally attempt to uair on reaction to missed tech or tech in place. This is faster than standing grab on the ground, so it again is easier. It is not ideal due to slide off but it'll do as another option if you're wrong on assuming they'll tech roll either direction. This is probably what I'll do usually, but reacting to Sheik's tech in place is a tall order so I'll probably not. Vs Fox/Falco/Falcon etc I will though

Some reaction examples + unblockable

Put succinctly, if I think they will tech roll either direction I will reaction stomp and if they don't I'll go for uair or unblockable. If I'm not sure or I doubt they'll roll away, I'll go for an option coverage stomp that covers all the options besides roll away.

 

[Rachman]

they fixed gfycat embeds! Thanks mods I appreciate ya

 

[Rachman]

Something I like to kill Sheik around 40% is ledge hop bair regrab ledge. If they hard read it though, I used to be in a bad spot. Nowadays, if I'm not sure if I'll get the ledge grab in time, I go for an air dodge up and in so that I don't ever risk dying. To be clear, I time this during the 7f I am unable to do anything during if I were to have grabbed ledge. So it looks like I'm not doing it if I successfully grab ledge, which is why I needed to explain it. This isn't the ideal ledge hop bair situation...but I don't feel like re-recording. Use your imagination

 

[Rachman]

2 Side B tricks

1.) If fox goes to whiff punish this raptor boost, you can FF shine to edge and slide off punish usmash, grab won't reach, and dtilt similarly gets punished. Go for a light shield to get push off dj stomp in case they're late to spare yourself the damage.

2.) If you go for side b coverage like this and they roll to the corner, it pushes you to ledge. However, you're pretty plus so you can still keep it going

Regarding reaction stomping on plats, as far as I can tell you can always do it as long as you are plus enough to up air tech in place. The DJ stomp itself, with no momentum prior to the DJ, goes across the entire BF side plat. What's more, you can intentionally position more towards the center of the platform than they are landing. So, it's a lot more flexible than it might initially appear as you can get it off of most plat set ups.

Even better, you can get it off of a grab on a side platform if you time a shield drop to shield up air in case they were to have teched in place. You don't have to do this, you can just do regular aerial rtc, but this is easier if you prefer.

 

[Mekk]

Blessed to have you rachman. absorbing and setting time aside to try to practice, solo practice. the ease of access with the clips goes such a long way. Keep it up, can’t thank you enough. I love the way the innovations in our community are weaving together, like the kalindi air dodge in the sheik matchup FOR FALCON. I will try to ask questions and post myself in the future, but just an acknowledgment for now, cheers

 

[Rachman]

upon teching, Falcon initially springs in the opposite direction of where he will tech towards. I don't generally study animations, just follow movement, so this tricked me for a bit. It's reliably distinguishable frame 3 or 4. Overall, this means that (with appropriate practice and study) I currently think Knee RTC is the future of how I'll structure my punish in this match up. I expect lower success rate on rolls but higher on grabbing tech in place as compared to Falco (which I'm very happy with on good days rn)

Since Falcon has no reversal potential and a massively inferior recovery, I'd expect the tech chase to be even more effective than on Falco, with the caveat that you're more likely to have your knee blocked (due to being late) as it's still harder to distinguish his animations and generally you cannot until a frame or two later than vs Falco. Still, as knee is -2 if blocked in these scenarios, that's not terrible vs a character without an OOS game and grab RTC isn't without flaws either

 

[serupiko]

i’ve completely over complicated my approach to platform tech chasing, thank you for showing me the light chef

 

[Rachman]

Played around a lot with this. Basically, I dash knee the other fast fallers and the more I practice them the worse my Fox tech chase becomes and vice versa because they're different in what I do as my reaction. This can likely be overcome with enough practice, but in the name of time efficiency I was messing with knee

Fox can be hit in his last 2f (sometimes 3?) of his tech roll animation by instant knee while Falcon is still rising. This means frame 14 of Knee, which is a reaction that approaches 100% consistency as it allows me to react later than the usual aerial tech chase set up vs Fox. What's more, if you drift into him and fast fall you can still hit him on f16 of Knee even if you don’t get this to happen. If you want to be close enough to make aerialing roll away realistically consistent, drift back stomp often hits frame 17 not 16 (the first active frame of stomp). Since you lose 2 frames dashing back here, dash back knee is a 1-2f harder reaction if you don't get the favorable knee spacing that allows it to hit while rising (whereupon it becomes an easier reaction, but harder execution) and kneeing roll away is much more doable. Normally, you can’t get too close to Fox and still have drift back stomp work. This allows me to make kneeing roll away much more doable as dash back knee covers a tremendous distance.

I'm not sure it's the play, but it's something I'll be experimenting with further as I'd really like to consolidate, simplify, and streamline or else I'll have to tech chase 5 min on each char as opposed to just one a day. Which isn't the end of the world, but it's the little things

Also knee is way cooler than stomp and is, on average, a higher reward as the follow ups don’t get interrupted by platforms

 

[Daolothe]

You say that Falcon should play a more grounded game with shield and DD at low percents because of Fox's up smash followups, but Fox's grab leads to up smash and results in the same followups. How are you supposed to play neutral without hitboxes when Fox can just run up and grab you into 60%?

 

[Rachman]

not sure how to delete messages

 

[Rachman]

You say that Falcon should play a more grounded game with shield and DD at low percents because of Fox's up smash followups, but Fox's grab leads to up smash and results in the same followups. How are you supposed to play neutral without hitboxes when Fox can just run up and grab you into 60%?

Fox's grab does not result in the same follow ups as up smash. I commonly recommend dash forward shield which results in DI behind Fox in the event of being grabbed, and the remainder of your escape attempt can be done on reaction to being grabbed. Please refer to the corresponding sections of the cookbook for more specific information on that situation

a low execution yet straightforward example found there would be that, at low %s, Falcon can often tech in place (upon DIing behind, which would be done in this scenario due to the dash forward input) to dodge uthrow dash JC usmash entirely, netting Falcon a grab of his own instead and discouraging Fox from always attempting an up smash follow up. This remains a triple frame perfect input for Fox for awhile, even once it works, And this up smash can simply be DI'd once it becomes a both true and realistic combo, which a raw up smash in neutral cannot

Fox struggles to directly contest Falcon's superior aerial hitboxes. While his up smash provides him a direct solution, the risk reward on shielding one should heavily discourage its regular use as a stomp or knee out of shield is a potential TOD starter for Falcon. His heavy weight makes Fox's throw follow ups significantly less potent, with proper counterplay, than for the other fast fallers. The reason that up smash is such a potent combo starter when done raw in neutral is that you cannot DI the initial hit, whereas holding in (which also provides shield asdi in in the event of a raw up smash) results in proper DI on the throw which can then be consistently reacted to

 

[Rachman]

Been meaning to show this option as well. Wiggle out grab is an unreactable mix up if Fox starts waiting to tech chase you

And, you can have 3+ attempts at wiggling out if you properly use AC aerials (and plink across the relevant buttons)

 

[Rachman]

Quick video on up throw vs down throw and why down throw might be better than it initially appears

 

[sunrisebanana]

Fox's grab does not result in the same follow ups as up smash. I commonly recommend dash forward shield which results in DI behind Fox in the event of being grabbed, and the remainder of your escape attempt can be done on reaction to being grabbed. Please refer to the corresponding sections of the cookbook for more specific information on that situation

a low execution yet straightforward example found there would be that, at low %s, Falcon can often tech in place (upon DIing behind, which would be done in this scenario due to the dash forward input) to dodge uthrow dash JC usmash entirely, netting Falcon a grab of his own instead and discouraging Fox from always attempting an up smash follow up. This remains a triple frame perfect input for Fox for awhile, even once it works, And this up smash can simply be DI'd once it becomes a both true and realistic combo, which a raw up smash in neutral cannot

Fox struggles to directly contest Falcon's superior aerial hitboxes. While his up smash provides him a direct solution, the risk reward on shielding one should heavily discourage its regular use as a stomp or knee out of shield is a potential TOD starter for Falcon. His heavy weight makes Fox's throw follow ups significantly less potent, with proper counterplay, than for the other fast fallers. The reason that up smash is such a potent combo starter when done raw in neutral is that you cannot DI the initial hit, whereas holding in (which also provides shield asdi in in the event of a raw up smash) results in proper DI on the throw which can then be consistently reacted to

What is the optimal followup for fox with low percent grabs on falcon? This mixup seems pretty bad for a grab followup.

 

[Pedlar]

if you want to ask me questions about anything ask me here. Not going to respond to dms and such so that I can explain it once for everyone

Decided to start posting stuff either already known but not well known enough/not commonly implemented, or just stuff I randomly find

Something I personally forgot about is aerial RTC on plats This is trivial in difficulty compared to on the ground, as you can react much much later. This is because there's no need for dashing frames nor jump start up/squat frames Imo this mixed with 3/4 option coverage stomps is ideal. When someone is mixing up in vs away it becomes a50/50 for me right now, which isn't ideal. Option coverage is an ok default. When I'm wrong, I should up stomp ledge cancel grabs more often, or unblockables, like shown in the video below


Reminder: I generally attempt to uair on reaction to missed tech or tech in place. This is faster than standing grab on the ground, so it again is easier. It is not ideal due to slide off but it'll do as another option if you're wrong on assuming they'll tech roll either direction. This is probably what I'll do usually, but reacting to Sheik's tech in place is a tall order so I'll probably not. Vs Fox/Falco/Falcon etc I will though

Some reaction examples + unblockable

Put succinctly, if I think they will tech roll either direction I will reaction stomp and if they don't I'll go for uair or unblockable. If I'm not sure or I doubt they'll roll away, I'll go for an option coverage stomp that covers all the options besides roll away.

Does them landing closer to one or the other side of a platform make the stomp rtc ea

Been meaning to show this option as well. Wiggle out grab is an unreactable mix up if Fox starts waiting to tech chase you

And, you can have 3+ attempts at wiggling out if you properly use AC aerials (and plink across the relevant buttons)

i like a lot of these anti up throw options on fd and I know setchi said that getting grabbed by fox on fd isn’t that bad. But it feels like fox’s throw is too fast to react to in order to DI correctly I always miss the DI and get double up tilted into death. Do you have to preemptively prepare for the grab like you do with puff?

 

[Rachman]

Does them landing closer to one or the other side of a platform make the stomp rtc ea

i like a lot of these anti up throw options on fd and I know setchi said that getting grabbed by fox on fd isn’t that bad. But it feels like fox’s throw is too fast to react to in order to DI correctly I always miss the DI and get double up tilted into death. Do you have to preemptively prepare for the grab like you do with puff?

https://smashboards.com/threads/captain-falcon-labbing.518079/post-24762267

The key is that I consistently hold forward when I shield (generally dashing into it) in these spots at low %. This is for three reasons

1.) it makes the knee/stomp oos punish on up smash slightly easier

2.) It causes optimal DI if I grabbed

3.) Dash forward shield counters the fox nair that stuffs your jump as you cause it to hit high

This is why I have begun to become excited about shield at low % in this match up. Notice how I used dash forward shield as the callout on an anti air usmash (Fox's traditional answer to our usual walling aerial in that position). Notice how I dashed forward which would cause a DI behind if grabbed)


Here is a visual on how far DJ stomp travels. It's more or less across BF side plat. The difficulty in reaction is rarely if ever impacted by where the opponent lands on the platform beyond limitations with having enough time to get in position. Just jump closer to center than they land if they land on one side as you can simply DJ stomp to the other side if they roll that way as well

 

[Pedlar]

https://smashboards.com/threads/captain-falcon-labbing.518079/post-24762267

The key is that I consistently hold forward when I shield (generally dashing into it) in these spots at low %. This is for three reasons

1.) it makes the knee/stomp oos punish on up smash slightly easier

2.) It causes optimal DI if I grabbed

3.) Dash forward shield counters the fox nair that stuffs your jump as you cause it to hit high

This is why I have begun to become excited about shield at low % in this match up. Notice how I used dash forward shield as the callout on an anti air usmash (Fox's traditional answer to our usual walling aerial in that position). Notice how I dashed forward which would cause a DI behind if grabbed)


Here is a visual on how far DJ stomp travels. It's more or less across BF side plat. The difficulty in reaction is rarely if ever impacted by where the opponent lands on the platform beyond limitations with having enough time to get in position. Just jump closer to center than they land if they land on one side as you can simply DJ stomp to the other side if they roll that way as well

Thanks this clears up a lot for me!!!

 

[Daolothe]

Could you explain how the mixup game works from down throw on Fox in the corner at lower percents (Let's just say 0% as an easy example)?

 

[Daolothe]

. ,

 

[rrend]

is there any kind of way to see if my dash wavedashes are optimal speed cuz i think those are gatekeeping me from being good at aerial rtc

 

[Rachman]

is there any kind of way to see if my dash wavedashes are optimal speed cuz i think those are gatekeeping me from being good at aerial rtc

so i think a lot of people vastly over estimate how quick you have to be at the landing to optimally cover tech in place. if your dwd is ok and you start it about around when they're landing you'll generally get there on time. the key is not to dwd cleanly, but rather be looking at the other character the entire time after they land. this means that you should prioritize having an OK dwd (fun fact: their model will generally body block you from overshooting them unless they tech away in which case just makes it easier) while looking at their char the whole time rather than an ideal dwd while diverting any amount of attention away from them imo

 

[Rachman]

Could you explain how the mixup game works from down throw on Fox in the corner at lower percents (Let's just say 0% as an easy example)?

oh man this is a can of worms. put really simply, weak knee can catch most djs while threatening ff to cover shine stall and allowing you to cover air dodge up and onto stage on reaction. but ff weak knee is both really commital and far more preemptive than something like run off shine from fox so ff weak knee losing to basically anything weird (such as no jump up b) is a big issue since dying for a neutral opening in a mu that you are so heavily disadvantaged in neutral is...very bad.

in my opinion, the basic version of this situation boils down to "do i want to play it safe but only cover imperfect dj sweetspots too or do i want to blow up them going for shine stall into correctly performed sweetspot but risk being reversaled if something goes differently than i planned?". I think simplifying it like that and going from there is a helpful way of looking at it