Munomario777
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2014
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- Charleston, South Carolina
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Hey all! So, some of you have probably heard of this thread, which discusses the Smash roster and their canonical strength. Now, I'm making a topic * sort * of similar to that one, but with a different, more standardized ruleset.
First off, just for clarification, this isn't about "what if Smash played like this" or anything. It's about if these actual characters, equipped with these arsenals, moves, etc. battled each other.
Basically, each move from a character's Smash Brothers moveset will count in their overall strength, but given properties from canon games. For example,
will have Rest, but it won't have the KO potential it does in Smash, since that doesn't apply in Pokemon. The rules are below:
- Moves that are Smash-original will have Smash as their canonical source, such as much of
's moveset (the Falcon Punch appeared in that anime, however, so that can be used).
- The entrance animation will be used only to enter the battle (so
can't enter/exit a pipe at will, for example).
- Custom moves are allowed, as long as they are based on canon (for example,
's different Powers from Kid Icarus).
- Any limits on ammunition/use time (such as
's Bombs, Arrows, etc.) are the same as in the original game, and characters have one of each one-time-use item (such as potions, power-ups, and the like) in their possession.
- Final Smashes without an ammo/time limit in canon will be limited to one use per battle (for instance,
's End of Day).
- Hassles with switching between moves/weapons/etc. don't apply here (for instance,
only being able to carry one weapon in Kid Icarus: Uprising). In this case, weapons can be carried in hammerspace.
- Moves that aren't used by that character in the original game (such as
's PK Starstorm) or moves that require another character to perform (
's Power of Flight) can be performed natively by that character, but the same limitations still apply (Power of Flight still only lasts for five minutes, for example).
- Characters that are canonically the same character, such as
and
, will be treated as one entity and have one proposal between them, covering both movesets. Same goes for alternate costumes, such as
and
, since they have the same moveset. Clones, such as
and
, however, are separate.
- Any battles between characters, should it come to that, will take place in a ten-square-mile arena, with a pure concrete floor and unbreakable solid steel walls. Nothing comes in, nothing goes out, and when a character dies (in a way that would result in a game over or something of that nature), they lose. No revivals, 1-UPs, etc.
Each character should eventually have a post (or proposal) containing this information, along with the character's abilities (and weaknesses) described in the following five categories, based on the moveset:
Strength: Offensive capabilities; how much damage they could rack up on a "punching bag" (could be a city if you like; anything that doesn't fight back). This includes physical strength, weapons, and any other ability with offensive capabilities.
Defense: How much of a beating they can take, without fighting back; basically being the "punching bag." This includes physical toughness, armor, shields, and any other ability with defensive capabilities.
Speed/Agility: Anything relating to mobility; how well the character can get around. This includes running speed, vehicles, jumping, teleportation, and any other ability that can be used to get around.
Tactics: Strategies used by the character, or abilities used to confuse the opponent. This includes mindgames, decoys, and any other potential strategies using canonized Smash moves.
Other: Anything that doesn't fit into the other categories. This includes things like Shulk's Arts, Lucario's Aura, Robin's limited Tome usage, and any other character-specific gimmick, as well as Final Smashes.
There will also be a conclusion sentence at the end, wrapping up each character's strengths, weaknesses, and any other closing remarks. There will also be sources for any data used in the proposal.
This is an example of a proposal:
First off, just for clarification, this isn't about "what if Smash played like this" or anything. It's about if these actual characters, equipped with these arsenals, moves, etc. battled each other.
Basically, each move from a character's Smash Brothers moveset will count in their overall strength, but given properties from canon games. For example,
- Moves that are Smash-original will have Smash as their canonical source, such as much of
- The entrance animation will be used only to enter the battle (so
- Custom moves are allowed, as long as they are based on canon (for example,
- Any limits on ammunition/use time (such as
- Final Smashes without an ammo/time limit in canon will be limited to one use per battle (for instance,
- Hassles with switching between moves/weapons/etc. don't apply here (for instance,
- Moves that aren't used by that character in the original game (such as
- Characters that are canonically the same character, such as
- Any battles between characters, should it come to that, will take place in a ten-square-mile arena, with a pure concrete floor and unbreakable solid steel walls. Nothing comes in, nothing goes out, and when a character dies (in a way that would result in a game over or something of that nature), they lose. No revivals, 1-UPs, etc.
Each character should eventually have a post (or proposal) containing this information, along with the character's abilities (and weaknesses) described in the following five categories, based on the moveset:
Strength: Offensive capabilities; how much damage they could rack up on a "punching bag" (could be a city if you like; anything that doesn't fight back). This includes physical strength, weapons, and any other ability with offensive capabilities.
Defense: How much of a beating they can take, without fighting back; basically being the "punching bag." This includes physical toughness, armor, shields, and any other ability with defensive capabilities.
Speed/Agility: Anything relating to mobility; how well the character can get around. This includes running speed, vehicles, jumping, teleportation, and any other ability that can be used to get around.
Tactics: Strategies used by the character, or abilities used to confuse the opponent. This includes mindgames, decoys, and any other potential strategies using canonized Smash moves.
Other: Anything that doesn't fit into the other categories. This includes things like Shulk's Arts, Lucario's Aura, Robin's limited Tome usage, and any other character-specific gimmick, as well as Final Smashes.
There will also be a conclusion sentence at the end, wrapping up each character's strengths, weaknesses, and any other closing remarks. There will also be sources for any data used in the proposal.
This is an example of a proposal:
Once each character (barring Miis) has a proposal, I will edit these into the main post and set up a poll, which will form a sort of "tier list." Of course, debates in the comments themselves are also welcome. If you want to help out with the list, feel free to make a proposal in the comments! :DSonic's Canonized Moveset:
Standard Moveset
Up Smash/Dash Attack/Edge Attack/Nair: When in spinball form, Sonic's quills are hard enough and his spinning speed fast enough for him to slice through battleships without even moving at the speed of sound. When he really gets moving, however...
Side B (Spin Dash)/Down B (Spin Charge)/Down Throw: The Spin Dash is one of Sonic's most potent attacks, launching him off at top speed (see "Other") from a standstill, all while in the damaging spinball form. Of course, this attack is also extremely damaging, since it combines the raw ripping power of the basic Spin Attack with Sonic's signature speed. Additionally, in Sonic Adventure, with the use of the Light Speed Shoes and the Crystal Ring, the Spin Dash can also charge the Light Speed Attack, which has him use a supercharged Homing Attack at light speed, striking all nearby opponents. Speaking of the Homing Attack...
Neutral B (Homing Attack): Introduced in Sonic Adventure, the Homing Attack launches Sonic in midair towards an opponent, all in the blink of an eye. This attack can be used repeatedly to strike multiple opponents, or to repeatedly blast towards the same target. If there is no target in sight, Sonic will instead perform the Jump Dash, which is basically a Homing Attack, but instead of locking onto a target, it simply launches Sonic straight forward. This is useful for crossing large gaps, especially combined with his running speed or the Spin Dash.
Up Special (Spring Jump): While Sonic can't summon a spring in the Sonic games (unless you count debug mode
), Springs are extremely useful tools for traversing the terrain, giving massive amounts of height (especially the red ones in the Genesis titles, which Sonic is using here, due to the shape, color, and sound effect of the spring), allowing him to keep his horizontal momentum while skyrocketing him upwards. The spring doesn't do any damage in the Sonic titles, however, but it can be used to disrupt movement (if you ever played a classic Sonic game, you probably know what I mean).
Up Throw: This attack takes advantage of the fact that Sonic can harden his quills at will (they are sort of floppy normally, but harden in this and his spinning attacks), and is quite damaging to anyone who falls on the quills.
All Other Attacks: Many of these come from Sonic Battle and Sonic the Fighters, but I haven't been able to find any good sources for how powerful each move is, so I'll just treat Smash as the canonical source for these moves.
Other Properties
Jump: Sonic's jump, especially when combined with momentum, is very far-reaching in his games, and his double jumps from Colors and Lost World are pretty nice as well for crossing gaps.
Running Speed: From Sonic News Network (Sonic Wiki)'s page on the Blue Blur himself:
Sonic is known best for his speed, with the ability to run at speeds greater than Mach 1, which is at the blistering speed of 761 mph (1,225 km/h). This is evident in many games, where Sonic is recorded to run at speeds faster than 765 mph (1,231 km/h). It is also stated in the Sonic Adventure DX manual that "He's the world's fastest, hypersonic hedgehog" which is at a staggering speed ranging from 3,840 mph (6,180 km/h) to 7,680 mph (12,360 km/h). He is occasionally referred to as "the fastest thing alive," and is even noted to be the fastest being in the universe.[28] Additionally, he can run backwards at full speed just as well as forwards, as shown in the Team Sonic opening cut-scene of Sonic Heroes. Due to such speed, he is able to scale right up the walls of buildings, or similar structures, and can also run right over water.
It is unknown how much faster Sonic can run beyond Mach 1, though it is on various occasions assumed that he can. In Sonic Battle, it is stated that he can move several times the speed of sound and when the Final Egg Blaster was about to fire, Sonic defeated Ultimate Emerl in less than 30 seconds. It is also believed that Sonic can move faster while in spinball form than running, possibly even reaching the speed of light as seen in Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes where he could utilize the Light Speed Attack and the Light Speed Dash to achieve light speed movements. Also, in Sonic Unleashed, the Checkpoints, which measure his speed (SPD) in-game, can clock Sonic going over 2,800 SPD; in comparison, the Light Speed Dash measures 396 SPD. This suggests that Sonic can move at speeds far greater than the speed of light.
Sonic's speed does not seem to have certain weaknesses in that recklessness (the possibility of crashing into unintended targets) and "straight-line only" concepts are invoked, showing he has complete mastery over his speed. Sonic is additionally shown to be able to run in full tight circles, thus is not exposed to the impotency of only being able to run fast in straight lines. Should he be running at uncontrollable speeds, he can utilize the Drift to opportunely control his momentum and even crash into foes with it.
Aside from running, Sonic can also apply his super speed for other abilities. He is able to heal himself by vibrating his body at supersonic speeds, launch shockwaves by spinning in his spinball form at high speeds, create barriers of super speed for a split second, and set strong winds in motions with high-speed movements which he can use to attack opponents similar to aerokinesis.
Swimming: Yes, Sonic can swim. He swims in Smash, so that means I'm going to have to find an instance where Sonic can swim in a Sonic game. Luckily, I didn't have to go far, since he swims in the first Sonic game I ever played: Sonic Colors. In this game, Sonic can swim using his Spin Jump infinitely in water, similarly to 2D Mario games. However, he can still run out of breath, so finding air in time is key.
Final Smash: Sonic's Final Smash unleashes his most powerful attack in the game (no duh): Super Sonic. In this form, Sonic can fly, is invincible, moves even faster than normal, and can use the Super Sonic Boost. His top speed in this form is so fast that it's said he can exceed the speed of light! His power is also increased tremendously, being shown to let him smash through space fleets, break enormous metal restraints without effort, and even stun the mountain-sized boss Dark Gaia. In addition, he gains the ability to freely use multiple Chaos Powers, allowing him to teleport, create shields, shoot destructive golden waves, slow down time, and more. The aforementioned Super Sonic Boost has Sonic envelop himself in a fiery aura for as long as he so desires, which, as well as destroying nearly anything in his path, can also be used to launch projectiles back at opponents or boost through attacks to block them. However, Super Sonic can only be used for a limited time, and needs fifty Rings to initiate, which drain slowly over time.
Taunts/Entrance Animation: Sonic loves breakdancing, and his Down Taunt is no exception. Sonic's Up Taunt is a nod to the classic "finger wag," and his Side Taunt demonstrates the Super Peel Out, which is basically a Spin Dash, but without the Spin. His Entrance Animation is just the Spin Jump, nothing special there.
Categories
Strength: While Sonic may not have the best pure physical strength, he definitely makes up for it with his use of speed in his offensive techniques. The aforementioned Spin Dash can tear through practically anything with ease, and the Light Speed Attack is one of his most impressive attacks. The Homing Attack also gives Sonic a quick, reliable aerial attack option. Sonic's weakness in this category, however, is his predictability. He doesn't have too many moves to pull from, but they all look similar, with the curling-into-a-ball theme, and they are pretty quick, so that definitely gives him an advantage.
Defense: Sonic can't take a beating very well, and relies on Rings to keep him alive. However, he can pick these Rings up after they fly out of him when he takes a hit. What Sonic lacks in toughness, though, he makes up for in evasion tactics. He has the reflexes to match his speed, and he can dodge pretty much anything you throw at him with his speed and agility. Speaking of which...
Speed/Agility: This is perhaps where Sonic stands out from the rest of the cast. Sonic is the fastest thing alive, known to run at speeds beyond Mach 1. He has even been stated to be "the world's fastest, hypersonic hedgehog," "hypersonic" being at a staggering speed ranging from 3,840 mph (6,180 km/h) to 7,680 mph (12,360 km/h). He can also use his speed to power his jump height and length, and when he jumps at full speed, he goes flying! In addition, he can bounce on Springs to gain even more height and soar over the competition.
Tactics: In addition to the aforementioned reflexes, Sonic's speed lends itself naturally to confusing opponents. He runs so fast that he can turn himself into a literal "blue blur," and this makes him very hard to hit. In addition, as mentioned above, many of his moves look similar, since they mostly rely on a hedgehog's ability to curl into a ball. This can confuse opponents as to which move Sonic will use next (in fact, the Spin Dash, the Light Speed Dash, and the Light Speed Attack all use the same move to charge).
Other: Sonic doesn't really have a "gimmick" to him like some other characters do, so I'll use this space to talk about Super Sonic. This form turns Sonic from the Blue Blur into the Golden Blur, which, while not being as catchy, amplifies his speed, defense (making him practically invincible), and power. However, this transformation is short-lived, as it requires fifty rings or more to activate, and it drains rings constantly. When the ring count reaches zero, Sonic is forced out of the transformation. However, when this happens, Sonic is restored to peak physical condition, regardless of his prior state.
Conclusion: I'd say with this huge pool of attacks, strategies, and evasion techniques, Sonic is definitely more than capable of holding his own against much of the Smash cast.
Sources
http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Sonic_the_Hedgehog#Powers_and_Abilities
http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Spin_Attack
http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Spin_Jump
http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Spin_Dash
http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Homing_Attack
http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Light_Speed_Attack
http://sonic.wikia.com/wiki/Super_Sonic
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