Can we get some sort of difficulty tierlist?

[Samlage]

Being in limbo when it comes to picking a main, I think many people would appreciate a sort of list ranking the hardest to play character to the easiest to pick up and master?

Ofc people might have different tendencies to allign with a certain character that another would deem harder.
Hence I think it would be best to gather them into Letter tiers from S to D, with like the all in A sorta the same difficulty, but some might find one easier to feel natural with, or something like that.

This would make it easier for people to make the decision of putting in effort>reward. Atleast Imo.

 

[imsoul]

If you're having trouble with a main, go random until you find someone you like

 

[Samlage]

If you're having trouble with a main, go random until you find someone you like

While that works for getting into the game, going competitive is another story.

I myself play heavies and heavies only, cause my game is all about the reads and punish. But lately ive been struggling against higher tiers like yoshi. Even if i know whats coming and plan for it, the ****ters can just correct their mistakes and punish me for just doing anything because frame data is a big obstacle to overcome.

Is rosalina a good pickup to learn if you are about reads, spacing and punishment but arent the most combo oriented player? I tried falcon but he feels like a character where he is utter **** when played but anything else than a master, then he becomes beastly with all the pin point reads and true comboes.

 

[imsoul]

While that works for getting into the game, going competitive is another story.

I myself play heavies and heavies only, cause my game is all about the reads and punish. But lately ive been struggling against higher tiers like yoshi. Even if i know whats coming and plan for it, the ****ters can just correct their mistakes and punish me for just doing anything because frame data is a big obstacle to overcome.

Is rosalina a good pickup to learn if you are about reads, spacing and punishment but arent the most combo oriented player? I tried falcon but he feels like a character where he is utter **** when played but anything else than a master, then he becomes beastly with all the pin point reads and true comboes.

Well that's what I personally did to find a main, and I do play competitively. Personally I think rosalina is a tough character to master, because learning how luma works, and not only spacing luma, but having to keep yourself safe. I have two friends who play falcon. One is not very good, and I can easily beat him, his falcon is average. The other, theirs is much better, and we're about 50/50. If you like heavies, and are interested in falcon, try Ganon. Also to avoid getting punished you have to mix it up, don't go for the same approach every time. For example, as a D3 main, FF-Nair is a great tool, but if you use it every time, they will just shieldgrab you. To get around this, you just have to empty-FF, and grab them out of their shield. Another mixup would be baiting a shieldgrap by jumping, then FF-nair/Bair. You have to keep them guessing

 

[Raijinken]

My subjective views on this, assuming you're trying to play pretty well against pretty alright players:
Easy
,,,,,,,,,,,(Non-custom),,,,,

Medium
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Hard
,,(Custom),,,

Characters sorted alphabetically within ranks.

Of course, your mileage may vary. In my group I'm an uncommonly good Shulk player just because it's obvious to me how to use each Art, yet I can't play Yoshi well at all. To note, against lower-skill players, Mac is obnoxiously easy to play and wreck people with, but against very skilled players, he's very hard to use properly.

 

[Samlage]

Well that's what I personally did to find a main, and I do play competitively. Personally I think rosalina is a tough character to master, because learning how luma works, and not only spacing luma, but having to keep yourself safe. I have two friends who play falcon. One is not very good, and I can easily beat him, his falcon is average. The other, theirs is much better, and we're about 50/50. If you like heavies, and are interested in falcon, try Ganon. Also to avoid getting punished you have to mix it up, don't go for the same approach every time. For example, as a D3 main, FF-Nair is a great tool, but if you use it every time, they will just shieldgrab you. To get around this, you just have to empty-FF, and grab them out of their shield. Another mixup would be baiting a shieldgrap by jumping, then FF-nair/Bair. You have to keep them guessing

Well, it feels like even tho you might not even use even the slightest of their potential, som chars can still garner success at the same time as you master them, so you can be more motivated to continue learning the fighter. Falcon seems like a character that you are **** until you are good with it. sheik on the other hand, can still be useful in the hands of a beginner, the only downside being finding finishers.

Hmm genius to just ff and Grab. hadnt thought about that lol. I mained ddd in brawl but dropped him this game because he didnt have his bread and butter, bair and chain grabs.

 

[MarioMeteor]

While that works for getting into the game, going competitive is another story.

I myself play heavies and heavies only, cause my game is all about the reads and punish. But lately ive been struggling against higher tiers like yoshi. Even if i know whats coming and plan for it, the ****ters can just correct their mistakes and punish me for just doing anything because frame data is a big obstacle to overcome.

Is rosalina a good pickup to learn if you are about reads, spacing and punishment but arent the most combo oriented player? I tried falcon but he feels like a character where he is utter **** when played but anything else than a master, then he becomes beastly with all the pin point reads and true comboes.

Rosalina isn't really a "pickup". She requires dedication and micromanagement and skill and all that good ****. If you need a high tier character with good frames and matchups, I recommend Mario.

 

[Wintropy]

My subjective views on this, assuming you're trying to play pretty well against pretty alright players:
Easy
,,,,,,,,,,,(Non-custom),,,,,

Medium
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Hard
,,(Custom),,,

Rai, dear, you know I respect your opinion implicitly, but I'm gonna have to veto your conception that Palutena (irrespective of customs) is easy. Bad Rai. *Casually bops with a newspaper*

I jest. I know it's your own subjective experience, but I just wanted to point out to OP that communal consensus would be that Palutena's actually pretty tricky to play.

Otherwise yeah I agree with most of this. I guess it does depend on what OP means by "difficulty". To my mind, a difficult character is a character that fits these criteria:

- The character is technically complex and requires a firm knowledge of how their mechanics work, in addition to consistent practice to maintain this knowledge

- The character has distinct variables in their moveset, so you need to keep track of multiple strata of mechanical idiosyncrasies to maintain advantage

- The character doesn't play like any other character in the game, so it's difficult to get to know how the characters works via intuitive knowledge

- The character rewards you for "weird" or abnormal play, to the extent that it encourages you to take risks or go outside your comfort zone for best results

This is, mind you, total theorycraft. Make of it what you will.

 

[Raijinken]

Rai, dear, you know I respect your opinion implicitly, but I'm gonna have to veto your conception that Palutena (irrespective of customs) is easy. Bad Rai. *Casually bops with a newspaper*

I jest. I know it's your own subjective experience, but I just wanted to point out to OP that communal consensus would be that Palutena's actually pretty tricky to play.

Otherwise yeah I agree with most of this. I guess it does depend on what OP means by "difficulty". To my mind, a difficult character is a character that fits these criteria:

- The character is technically complex and requires a firm knowledge of how their mechanics work, in addition to consistent practice to maintain this knowledge

- The character has distinct variables in their moveset, so you need to keep track of multiple strata of mechanical idiosyncrasies to maintain advantage

- The character doesn't play like any other character in the game, so it's difficult to get to know how the characters works via intuitive knowledge

- The character rewards you for "weird" or abnormal play, to the extent that it encourages you to take risks or go outside your comfort zone for best results

This is, mind you, total theorycraft. Make of it what you will.

Fair enough. I suppose it helps (with the subjectivity part) that one of my friends is a Palutena main, and that dthrow->fair and dthrow->uair are pretty simple. Aside from that, she's just got a bunch of slow smashes and less-slow tilts, a counter, a reflector, a simple recovery move, and an odd but straightforward projectile.

I guess my idea is that she's pretty easy to pick up, but like several of those characters, hard to use to great success for one reason or another. I still wouldn't put default Palutena above medium, though. And I'd only put custom Palutena in hard because of the relatively high technical ability it takes to do a proper Superspeed JCUS.

 

[Wintropy]

Fair enough. I suppose it helps (with the subjectivity part) that one of my friends is a Palutena main, and that dthrow->fair and dthrow->uair are pretty simple. Aside from that, she's just got a bunch of slow smashes and less-slow tilts, a counter, a reflector, a simple recovery move, and an odd but straightforward projectile.

I guess my idea is that she's pretty easy to pick up, but like several of those characters, hard to use to great success for one reason or another. I still wouldn't put default Palutena above medium, though. And I'd only put custom Palutena in hard because of the relatively high technical ability it takes to do a proper Superspeed JCUS.

Yeah, my own experience with her was "pre-release hype" -> "post-release trauma" -> "eventual mastery". Said it in the competitive impressions thread, but she reminds me of Squigly in Skullgirls: technically demanding defensive character that seems weak at fist, but who can pull off some dirty tricks when you get to know how she works.

I agree Defaultena isn't above medium, since she's pretty easy-going when you understand how to make use of her disparate moveset. The fact that she doesn't have an immediately evident "strength" (her moves are just all over the damn place), in addition to the fact that her default specials are exclusively defensive in orientation, means she can be counter-intuitive for first-time players. Customtena is definitely trickier, due to the fact that her customs force you to reevaluate everything you know about the character, but the reward speaks for itself~

 

[ChaikaBestGirl]

If you're having trouble with a main, go random until you find someone you like

Or you can do solo mode until you find a guy you like, unlike Brawl there is no Subspace Emissary giving you an excuse to try everyone out

 

[Raijinken]

Or you can do solo mode until you find a guy you like, unlike Brawl there is no Subspace Emissary giving you an excuse to try everyone out

Event Mode can fill that gap to a degree. So can going for all of the challenges, which would require learning every character well enough to clear the game on at least 7.0 (and Hard allstar), plus at least one on 9.0.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Kirby easy

Sonic's easy

Mario's easy

Rosalina's hard

Olimar's hard

Duck Hunt's hard

Who Cares about the rest?

 

[Saucen]

...

Who Cares about the rest?

Most people.

 

[Axel311]

Mario, Cpt. Falcon and Luigi are probably the easiest to learn of the high tiers. If you like a punish character, go falcon. He has excellent power and speed.

 

[Networker1]

My subjective views on this, assuming you're trying to play pretty well against pretty alright players:
Easy
,,,,,,,,,,,(Non-custom),,,,,

Medium
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Hard
,,(Custom),,,

Characters sorted alphabetically within ranks.

Of course, your mileage may vary. In my group I'm an uncommonly good Shulk player just because it's obvious to me how to use each Art, yet I can't play Yoshi well at all. To note, against lower-skill players, Mac is obnoxiously easy to play and wreck people with, but against very skilled players, he's very hard to use properly.

I pretty much agree with all of this, but I'd say Kirby is medium and Ness is easy. (not much to learn on ness except PKT controls imo) Also, Ryu seemed to click with me pretty easily, but I'm sure that isn't the norm.

 

[Raijinken]

I pretty much agree with all of this, but I'd say Kirby is medium and Ness is easy. (not much to learn on ness except PKT controls imo) Also, Ryu seemed to click with me pretty easily, but I'm sure that isn't the norm.

I mean, obviously a lot is subjective, which is why I really just recommend anyone new either go down the list one at a time, or random.

A while back on Project M (before Smash4 was released) I made a point to play one character a day, for at least five matches, going in order and making up for the days I missed due to homework and whatnot. It was a pretty good way to learn, and I'd recommend it to anyone who has more than 50 days to pick a main.

 

[Ze Diglett]

In my opinion, the easy ones are (in no particular order):

And the hard ones are (again, no particular order):

Everyone else is just sort of in the middle there.

 

[Evello]

If you're looking for straight-forward characters with good frame data and few blatant weaknesses, I would recommend above the others. as well, if you're not feeling the first 3. They each have drawbacks, and obviously you still need to practice lots to be really good with them, but they're all relatively versatile, well-rounded characters who can be picked up fairly easily.

Definitely avoid the following characters, though, as they all are difficult to use and require you to master some sort of special strategy/mechanic to circumvent their otherwise significant shortcomings:

 

[Lag Chan]

Very Easy

Easy

Medium

Hard

Very Hard

 

[Joshua Flynn]

Hard

Very Hard

I can state for a fact duck hunt duo is hard/very hard. You need advanced reads due to lengthy delays in smash attacks (that glitch out and don't always KO), and pre-planning with projectiles so they stack, interrupt etc. No pre-planning, no winning.
To the OP:
You need to ask yourself why you need a difficulty list? If you're looking for the easiest character to play, then people can tell you that straight off, and likewise for the hardest. If you're looking for a particular subset (for example, the easiest/hardest heavy), then ask that and people will likely help you.

If it's a playstyle you're after, as you say:

I myself play heavies and heavies only, cause my game is all about the reads and punish.

Then you need to ask about the particular playstyle. Duck hunt is very much a 'read and punish' character, in that you have to predict their movements to get the projectiles on course (they're all manually controlled, in a sense), but he is also a light character and with a sharp difficulty curve.

A speed and read type I imagine would be Bowser in the heavy set. But heavies aren't the only 'read and punish' ones out there...

 

[Raijinken]

I can state for a fact duck hunt duo is hard/very hard. You need advanced reads due to lengthy delays in smash attacks (that glitch out and don't always KO), and pre-planning with projectiles so they stack, interrupt etc. No pre-planning, no winning.
To the OP:
You need to ask yourself why you need a difficulty list? If you're looking for the easiest character to play, then people can tell you that straight off, and likewise for the hardest. If you're looking for a particular subset (for example, the easiest/hardest heavy), then ask that and people will likely help you.

If it's a playstyle you're after, as you say:



Then you need to ask about the particular playstyle. Duck hunt is very much a 'read and punish' character, in that you have to predict their movements to get the projectiles on course (they're all manually controlled, in a sense), but he is also a light character and with a sharp difficulty curve.

A speed and read type I imagine would be Bowser in the heavy set. But heavies aren't the only 'read and punish' ones out there...

I agree with this. There are others, Ike for instance, that are pretty close to lightning bruisers if you can mix a few reads in with the standard neutral game tricks. A lot of it comes down to preference and what one is really after, regardless of difficulty.

 

[M15t3R E]

If only ESAM was here. He'd probably react worse than me after seeing one of you guys state thatis easy and another say he's very easy. Pikachu is played very quickly while having to consciously understand your spacing and what approaches work and what moves can string from what given the percents and specific opponent. Heck, this is why he's underrepresented despite being great.
Zero suit isn't easy either...
Anyway, this is the problem. This list is more subjective than, let's say, a tier list which is based on tournament performance. Nobody's gonna like any finalized difficulty list.

 

[Raijinken]

If only ESAM was here. He'd probably react worse than me after seeing one of you guys state thatis easy and another say he's very easy. Pikachu is played very quickly while having to consciously understand your spacing and what approaches work and what moves can string from what given the percents and specific opponent. Heck, this is why he's underrepresented despite being great.
Zero suit isn't easy either...
Anyway, this is the problem. This list is more subjective than, let's say, a tier list which is based on tournament performance. Nobody's gonna like any finalized difficulty list.

At a very basic level, the only tricky thing about using Pikachu is Quick Attack. He doesn't have tome count, item play, stat altering abilities, etc. He's a very high skill ceiling character, but just to pick up and play at some middling level? Medium at best, and that only due to Quick Attack.

But as you say, this is very subjective. When someone asks me how hard a character is to play, I personally don't assume they're trying to go compete in a tournament and include success chances as a factor of difficulty. I assume they mean how hard is it to use the character's moves properly against another player who plays the game but is not necessarily amazing.

 

[M15t3R E]

At a very basic level, the only tricky thing about using Pikachu is Quick Attack. He doesn't have tome count, item play, stat altering abilities, etc. He's a very high skill ceiling character, but just to pick up and play at some middling level? Medium at best, and that only due to Quick Attack.

But as you say, this is very subjective. When someone asks me how hard a character is to play, I personally don't assume they're trying to go compete in a tournament and include success chances as a factor of difficulty. I assume they mean how hard is it to use the character's moves properly against another player who plays the game but is not necessarily amazing.

Okay that might be what the OP was looking for after all: a list of how easy characters are to pick up and play decently right off the bat. In that case, a list for the learning curves of characters to play them optimally would look quite different. Which kind of list would be more useful for new players? If you ask me, both lists should go hand in hand for the prudent newcomer.

 

[Raijinken]

Okay that might be what the OP was looking for after all: a list of how easy characters are to pick up and play decently right off the bat. In that case, a list for the learning curves of characters to play them optimally would look quite different. Which kind of list would be more useful for new players? If you ask me, both lists should go hand in hand for the prudent newcomer.

I'd agree with that. Of course, there exist newcomers who aren't looking to rise the ranks of competitive play, but that's just one of the general conditions that need to be elaborated on when (or really, before) people are coming up with such lists.

 

[Got4n]

Sheik and Rosalina are the hardest to master IMO.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Kirby is not that easy. You have to know the character very well to win. He may be easy to learn, but earning a victory demands quite a active mind on how to punish the opponent and use your right moves.

 

[E.D.N.D.N]

There's not really just easy or hard characters. It's a matter of skill floors and learning curve. A character like rosalina is really easy to do well with right off the bat (neutral B, jab to keep em out, dash attack a lot) but there is a lot of difficulty at higher levels. A character like Ryu is generally pretty difficult at both levels. Here's my opinion of easy characters in terms of skill floor and learning curve

Easy to pick up, generous learning curve:
Yoshi, Mario, Sonic, Captain falcon,

Easy to pick up and do OK with but hard to master
Rosa luma, Olimar, Shulk, Fox, and link (a lot of advanced techniques once you get past the spamming mindlessly phase)

Difficult to pick up and use/very technical characters
Greninja, peach, Ryu, mega man, marth

 

[Douglas Jay Ganon]

The hardest are

I wouldn't say some characters are the easiest to play. Every character is hard to master, some are harder than other, but still. I'd rather say that some character are more "noob/amateur friendly". Bowser is amateur friendly, because all his specials and attacks are powerful, but try to play him in a competition level. A guy who is starting wouldn't know the correct gameplay with Bowser. Same happens with . Easy to spam specials or do one specific combo, hard to master.

 

[Wintropy]

Out of interest, does this hypothetical tier list reflect how difficult it is for a new player to play on basic intuition, or how difficult the character is to master?

The distinction would yield very different results.

 

[Direspect only!]

pac man is hard. XD. all his tools can be used against him.