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Can someone help me with a Competitive Ruleset?

Fergusooon

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
4
Hey everyone!

I work for an online gaming website, and we are starting up a Super Smash Bros ladder. I have given myself the task of perfecting the ruleset for this ladder, as it is currently very lacking in detail. Such as there is no mention of stocks or stages. I have a very limited knowledge about Smash Bros, but a lot of knowledge about rulesets in general for eSports.

What I'm wondering is if any of you can guide me in the right direction, as to what a typical competitive ruleset would look like, what it contains, and what is the best to use (most liked by players). It would help me immensely if you guys can point me in the right direction.

Thanks!

Kat 'Ferguson'

PS. If someone could also explain the ban/counterpick system I would be eternally grateful. I've dealt with ban systems in CS, HS and LoL, but I can't wrap my head around this one.
 

Ansou

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
506
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
NNID
Ansoulom
3DS FC
4897-5959-9210
Well Smash 4 doesn't have a unified ruleset at this point in time, but I can give some recommendations and clarification on stage picking. Since you're talking about a ladder, I'm assuming that every match will be online.

Stock/time: We usually play with either 2 or 3 stock, but most people like to have 3 stocks as it gives players more chances to prove themselves. If you play with with 3 stock, you would have the time set to 8 minutes in order to prevent the match from going on forever. If there are only 2 stock, the timer would be 6 minutes instead.

You would probably have best of 3 for every set on the ladder.

As for legal stages, I recommend this list:
  • Battlefield
  • Final Destination
  • Delfino Plaza
  • Kongo Jungle 64
  • Halberd
  • Lylat Cruise
  • Skyloft
  • Castle Siege
  • Town & City
  • Smashville
  • Duck Hunt
  • Wuhu Island
  • Dreamland 64
Procedure for a set:
Game 1:
  1. Both players pick their characters at the same time.
  2. The first player to strike a stage is determined. This is usually done with Rock, Paper & Scissors, but you'll have to handle it some other way in an online setting.
  3. Players strike stages in the order of 1-2-2-2-2-2-1, i.e. the first player bans one stage, the second bans two stages etc.
  4. The remaining stage is played on in game 1.
Game 2 and 3:
  1. The winner of the previous game bans 3 stages. The loser then selects a stage from the remaining stages for the game to be played on. A player may not select a stages that she/he have already won on in the same set.
  2. The winner of the previous game picks a character.
  3. The loser of the previous game picks a character with the chance to counterpick their opponent.
  4. The match is played.
If you would host an offline tourney, you should probably allow players to use custom moves. Unfortunately, this doesn't work that well online as it makes it possible for players to cheat by adding equipment to the custom sets.

Items and equipments should be turned off.
 

Fergusooon

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
4
Thank you, you are an angel.

This is what I have so far:

4 Stages

  • Battlefield
  • Final Destination
  • Delfino Plaza
  • Kongo Jungle 64
  • Halberd
  • Lylat Cruise
  • Skyloft
  • Castle Siege
  • Town & City
  • Smashville
  • Duck Hunt
  • Wuhu Island
  • Dreamland 64

Game 1:

The lower seeded player (here by known as Player A) strikes ONE stage.
The higher seeded player (here by known as Player B) strikes TWO stages.
Player A strikes TWO stages.
Player B strikes TWO stages.
Player A strikes TWO stages.
Player B strikes TWO stages.
Player A strikes ONE stage.

Game 2 & 3

The winner of Game 1 bans THREE stages.

The loser will pick a stage from the remaining stages. A player may not select a stage that the player has won on in the same set.

The winner of the game picks a character.

The loser of the previous games picks a character with the change to counterpick their opponent.


Gentleman’s Clause: Any stage can be chosen for a game if both players agree

Alternatively, if it is easier to understand. start with 3 neutrals as start maps. With the lower seeded player starting the ban (alternatively higher seeded player, depending on what gives more of an advantage.) After the game it will be the loser who picks a stage, and the winner picking a character first.

But if this is what would be ideal in a competitive Smash Bro's setting, then that is what I will go with.

Thanks again. I really appreciate it.

Kat
 
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Ansou

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
506
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
NNID
Ansoulom
3DS FC
4897-5959-9210
Alternatively, if it is easier to understand. start with 3 neutrals as start maps. With the lower seeded player starting the ban (alternatively higher seeded player, depending on what gives more of an advantage.) After the game it will be the loser who picks a stage, and the winner picking a character first.

But if this is what would be ideal in a competitive Smash Bro's setting, then that is what I will go with.

Thanks again. I really appreciate it.

Kat
No problems!

The thing is that no stage is completely neutral. By striking from the whole list you will have a higher chance of the stage in game 1 being more fair in the character matchup. If you only strike from three stages, there is a risk that one player gets an advantage that he/she wouldn't have gotten if all stages were used. Also, striking from the whole list makes the game more varied, which is usually a nice thing.

By the way, this:
Game 2 & 3

The winner of Game 1 bans THREE stages.
only works in game 2 and not in game 3. You should probably rephrase it to "The winner of the previous game bans THREE stages." or something like that. Just nitpicking here.

Otherwise it looks great! I'm glad to be of help! :)
 

Fergusooon

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
4
Gfinity Super Smash Bros Ladder
1 General
1.1 All admins will have (Admin) or (Moderator) next to their name when typing in the chat. These are the only admins unless stated otherwise by someone with the tag (Admin).

1.2 All players who register in to the Gfinity ladder agrees and confirms that they have read and comply to all rules on the Gfinity site.

1.3 Players must contact each other prior to the match to exchange NNIDs, if a player is not available on site to exchange NNID with his opponent, the player will forfeit the match.

2 Competition Guidelines
2.1 A player has 15 minutes to invite their opponent. Failure to do so will result in a forfeit

2.2 The ladder consist of Bo3 matches throughout.

2.3 Should a player disconnect during a game, the player disconnecting will forfeit that stage and players must move on to the next stage. The disconnecting player will be the losing player of the game and may choose the next stage.

3 Match Specific
Settings

  • Stock Match
  • Time Limit: 8 Minutes
  • Stocks: 3
  • Items Off
  • Custom moves are banned
  • Custom equips are bannes
3.1 If a match reaches time out, the winner is decided by the highest stock, then lowest %

3.2 If the % is the same for both players, the players will fight a 1-stock/3 minute match

4 Stages
  • Battlefield
  • Final Destination
  • Delfino Plaza
  • Kongo Jungle 64
  • Halberd
  • Lylat Cruise
  • Skyloft
  • Castle Siege
  • Town & City
  • Smashville
  • Duck Hunt
  • Wuhu Island
  • Dreamland 64
Game 1

  • The lower seeded player (here by known as Player A) strikes ONE stage.
  • The higher seeded player (here by known as Player B) strikes TWO stages.
  • Player A strikes TWO stages.
  • Player B strikes TWO stages.
  • Player A strikes TWO stages.
  • Player B strikes TWO stages.
  • Player A strikes ONE stage.
Game 2 and 3

  • The winner of the previous game bans THREE stages.
  • The loser will pick a stage from the remaining stages. A player may not select a stage that the player has won on in the same set.
  • The winner of the game picks a character.
  • The loser of the previous game picks a character with the chance to counterpick their opponent.
Gentleman's Clause Any stage can be chosen for a game if both players agree.


5 Ladder Disputes
5.1 All disputes must go through the ticket system to be resolved.

5.2 The ticket must contain the disputed match and proof of win. If a ticket does not contain this it will be closed without notice.

5.3 A player disputing a match without reason may be subject to penalties.

6 Reporting Scores
6.1 All players are to screenshot every single match and should keep them until the tournament has ended.

6.2 To report a no-show enter a 2-0 win.

6.3 Both teams must report the Match results within 10 minutes of its completion.

6.4 To report the Match results, teams must report the Match Score accurately, with overall games won being reported. For example, the Match Score can be reported as 3-0, 3-1, etc. Reporting the individual points for each game is optional.

6.5 How do I report scores?

To report scores for a competition:

Click 'Menu' located at the top of every page
Click 'My Results'
Locate the fixture you wish to report a score for
Enter result

6.6 The report score function will only display 15 minutes after the designated start time of the fixture.

6.7 Both teams must enter the result.

6.8 If two teams/players enter the result differently, a member of the Admin Team will be notified of the discrepancy and will intervene.

6.9 Teams/players found to be deliberately misentering results may face disciplinary action from the Admin Team

6.5 If a Match is not played, and neither team reports a No Show, awarding of the Match win will be decided by a Gfinity Staff member.

7 Conduct
7.1 All players are expected to uphold a level of respect and decency towards other players/participants and admins. Any form of abuse is taken seriously and we request players screenshot said abuse.

7.2 All participants in any Gfinity competition will be required to uphold to the highest standards and observe common sportsmanship. Racism will NOT be tolerated. If you are seen to be racist then you will have action taken against you. Being abusive in any way towards fellow players or admins will also result in disciplinary action.

7.3 Anyone who has been caught cheating in any Gfinity event may be suspended from all future Gfinity events. Gfinity Admins will review cases and players may be suspended for a period of not less than one month and is subject to review by Gfinity admins for readmission after that point. If a player is caught cheating in a Gfinity match, their team shall forfeit that game. Gfinity will not conduct witch-hunts to try and find cheat violations against players.

7.4 Watching an opponents stream or watching a live broadcast of your own game is strictly forbidden, this includes listening to as well.

7.5 Gfinity reserves the right to remove a player at their discretion based on previous bans or outstanding bans from other tournaments.

7.6 If a player is found to be cheating and/or using illegal customization in any Gfinity match the score will be overturned and the player permanently banned.

7.7 If a player is found to be using an alternative account to circumvent a ban, any matches on any team that he/she has played in the last 30 days will be overturned.

7.8 Consequences for players behaving in a manner considered by admins to be abusive, glitching, modding, cheating, unsporting, or who in any way conduct themselves in a manner not befitting the competition, will be subject to the following minimum sanctions:

a. First offence, player warned.
b. Second offence, 1 month suspension for the player/players involved.
c. In the event of the same or another player from the same team stepping out of line, the team will be warned and players suspended for a further 3 months.
d. Any further offences will result in the team being permanently removed from the competition.

8 Prizes
8.1 All results and final placements are verified by Gfinity staff before prizes are awarded.

8.2 If a player has been found to have broken any rules during the tournament, that player will forfeit their prize pot.

8.3 We aim to credit prize money to your wallet within 7 days of the completion of the respective competition.

However, this may take up to one week to process during times of heightened activity on the website.

This prize money will then immediately be available for account members to withdraw via PayPal.

PayPal payments may take up to 7 days to clear in your account.

9 Gfinity Staff
9.1 Gfinity Staff can be contacted to answer any questions or solve any problems your team may have during a Match.

9.2 If a Gfinity Staff member is called into a Custom Games Lobby, players must keep the Gfinity Staff member un-muted at all times.

9.3 Verbal and/or written abuse of a Gfinity Staff member will not be tolerated. This includes, but is not limited to: Forum Posts, Private Messages, and Steam Messages. The individual user and/or team violating this rule will be subject to penalties. All team leaders are responsible for the conduct of the players on the team while interacting with Gfinity Staff and are subject to penalties if a team member becomes abusive towards Gfinity Staff.

9.4 Gfinity Staff members have the discretion to make necessary calls to ensure the match is completed successfully. When in a match, the Gfinity Staff member's call is final and must be followed. Failure to do so will result in penalties for your team.

10 Miscellaneous
10.1 The rules are open to many different interpretations. The only interpretation, which matters, is the interpretation of the Admin team. We reserve the right to modify the rules at any time. This includes changes due to software updates or releases, and any other change deemed necessary by the league. You must understand that the rules listed are guidelines to try and ensure fair and competitive play, and they will be applied by officials based on the spirit of the game. Teams should check the rules prior to any event to ensure they are in compliance. They should also keep an eye on the website, as changes will be announced on the website. You must be familiar with the current rule set.
So this is the complete rule set. Thanks again for your help. I was lost there for a second, but managed to pull through.

My biggest pet peeve are bad and confusing rulesets.
 

Ansou

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
506
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
NNID
Ansoulom
3DS FC
4897-5959-9210
I can't see anything missing. Except that you wrote "Custom equips are bannes" instead of "banned". :p
 

Esquire

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 12, 2014
Messages
54
Location
South Jersey
NNID
DarkSlay
There appears to only be one item missing from your ruleset, and that's a rule regarding the Miis. Since generally the Miis are seen as something completely separate than Custom moves (considering all Mii moves and sizes, but not equipment, are available when Customs are set to Off), venues and ladders need to make a specific rule that caters to the three Mii characters. Generally, the most common rulesets for Miis are from among the following, rated from least restrictive to most restrictive:
  • Miis are allowed with any size and move selection.
  • Miis are allowed with the EVO-approved sizes and move selections. (See: The Custom Moveset Project's list for the Mii characters)
  • Miis are allowed to use any move selection, but must use the system Default Miis for sizes.
  • Miis must be the system Default Mii size and can select a set from the following: 1-1-1-1, 2-2-2-2, or 3-3-3-3.
  • Miis must be the system Default Mii size and must be restricted to 1-1-1-1.
Alternatively, you could also make your own rule about Miis. For example, me personally, I'd allow all move selections while keeping all Miis at 1/4 Height, Thin (considered to be the most optimal size for Swordfighter and Gunner already, and Brawler mains compromise a bit to get their character less restricted). The above rulesets, though, are most common for tournaments and online ladders. Keep in mind that a ruleset about Miis specifically impacts the mains of three individual characters, so I'd recommend looking into the issue for a bit if you have time. Below is a link to that thread:

http://smashboards.com/threads/shou...-fighter-customs.408372/page-18#post-19897629

If you have any questions about this rule, feel free to ask the community too! Online ladders generally have their members stem from online forums like these, so it's a good group to poll and discuss with.
 

TheHypnotoad

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 28, 2015
Messages
615
You might want a rule involving suicide moves. Many players believe that the initiator of the suicide move should always be declared the winner, regardless of what the results screen says. I personally disagree, but that is up to you. If a suicide move causes Sudden Death, or if both players die simultaneously for any reason and it goes to Sudden Death, typically they'll do the 1-stock, 3 minute match. If the same thing occurs, or if there is a timeout with percents tied, they do a 1-stock match with no time limit.

Also, I personally prefer 5-stage starter lists over Full List Stage Striking, but again, that's up to you.

And most important of all, make sure not to listen to anything that @ T0MMY T0MMY says. :^)
 
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T0MMY

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
3,349
Location
Oregon
Hey everyone!

I work for an online gaming website, and we are starting up a Super Smash Bros ladder. I have given myself the task of perfecting the ruleset for this ladder, as it is currently very lacking in detail.
Hello, I am a prominent rulecrafter here in the Smash Community, having been a part of the community for about a decade competing in and hosting tournaments. As of this point I believe I am the only Smasher who has written a guide about rulings for the tournament scene. My guide can be found here:
Competitive Philosophy for Super Smash Bros.

I can offer you professional advice on standards, rulings, and ad hoc decisions both in regards to what is in general use as well as my critical analysis on decisions based on a refined philosophy I have been sculpting - my philosophy is based on Competitive Theory which align with David Sirlin's commentary as put forth in "Playing to Win". That is to say, the spirit of competition that spurred the communities to form around these games is the essence of my arguments when dealing with rules.

Feel free to send me a PM here on this site on any inquiry regarding rules or about our community and I would be obliged to respond with my opinions.

PS. If someone could also explain the ban/counterpick system I would be eternally grateful. I've dealt with ban systems in CS, HS and LoL, but I can't wrap my head around this one.
I am assuming you are asking about the Stage Selection Process when asking about bans and counterpicks (although bans and counterpicks exist outside stage selection as well).

A Stage is required to be selected before a match can start; players must agree to a Stage; TOs generally put forth a ruling how to determine a Stage.​

The most widely ruled method of selecting a stage today generally utilizes listed Stages available to the competitors - "Starter" stages and "Counterpick" stages:

  • Starter Stages are for the 1st round and are generally static and non-impeding to basic competition.
  • Counterpick Stages are for additional rounds after the first round, these rounds are open to more available stages to allow for a wider knowledge of the game to influence the match. The counterpick stage is chosen by the loser of the previous match . Generally one or more bans are available to the winner of the first match to remove their weakest stages before the loser of the previous match chooses the Stage.
 
Last edited:

Raijinken

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Messages
4,420
Location
Durham, NC
Depending on how robust your system needs to be, you may also want to enumerate rulings about glitches (what few there are), infinites (yes, no, or limited), disqualification, match proof (for online) in case of disputes, and so on.

Addressing those specific things:
Glitches are normally resolved with either a "you reset the game as best as you can to the percent/stock at which the glitch occurred" or "the player who initiates the glitch loses". This was only really relevant for Bowser Jr's car glitch (which, if I recall, was fixed a while back), and perhaps the Pac-Man Trampoline Glitch (which was fixed and replaced with another less-lethal glitch).

For infinites, much of that will depend on your competitive philosophy. I think they're inherently degenerate, and ban them outright (user forfeits match but not set). Others rule by "if it's in the game, it's fair", so they're fully legal. More often than either of those, a player is allowed to infinite until 300%, at which point they must take the stock (prevents stalling to time via infinite but doesn't ban them outright).

Disqualification for online matches is tricky, but generally depends on either player failing to show up within a designated timeframe. If the timeframe is player-designated, typically a player has to prove that the timeframe was agreed to but not met. Screenshot proof and whatnot is useful for that.

Similarly for online events, encouraging players to save replays in case of disputes is a good plan. Unfortunately, replays aren't just file-transfer-shareable, and anything over three minutes can't be uploaded to Youtube via the game's mechanisms for doing so. Especially considering this, I would strongly advise against ruling against the game's results screen (i.e. Suicide Kills that kill Bowser first would, sadly, not count in his favor). This can be hard to do with stock/time/percent/whatever rulings if sudden death happens, too.
 
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