Can someone help me to get better with Zero Suit Samus?

[ZeroMii]

Hello,

I really like to play with Zero Suit Samus, but I'm not that good with her.
Can someone help me to get better with her?

Thanks =D

 

[pichuthedk]

We should probably start with footage of you playing or you telling us what some of your current problems are when playing her in matches (I.E unable to set up kills or juggle people properly).
There are a lot of directions this could be going so it will be easier with more info.

 

[Colin Steele]

I'm also trying to get better with her. She is different than she was in Brawl, but she is obviously still very good. I'm treating her a lot like Sheik, but I think she has more kill moves. I'm not punishing rolls as well as I should be with the stun, and I need to practice the Up-B, because that's a really good kill move.

 

[pichuthedk]

I'm also trying to get better with her. She is different than she was in Brawl, but she is obviously still very good. I'm treating her a lot like Sheik, but I think she has more kill moves. I'm not punishing rolls as well as I should be with the stun, and I need to practice the Up-B, because that's a really good kill move.

Rolls are op in this game I've been having trouble as well I should have absorbed more souls with down smash in brawl because I tend to miss the timing or get punished for reacting to slow, Try not to worry although if you notice the person likes to roll away from you when you run at him you can just go ahead and dash attack once you see the roll it catches people all day.

 

[ZeroMii]

We should probably start with footage of you playing or you telling us what some of your current problems are when playing her in matches (I.E unable to set up kills or juggle people properly).
There are a lot of directions this could be going so it will be easier with more info.

I struggle a lot with getting kills and making combo's with her. I also think that I'm playing to fast, my defending is not that well....

 

[LightningLuxray]

Man, I haven't gotten the game yet (hopefully tomorrow!) but I've played as ZSS on a friends copy and I must say, she feels drastically different from Brawl. She seems to have so much hype around her, but the only real positive differences I see are her new FSmash and Dash Attack. Besides that, she's lost her suit pieces, her Side B, which was once one of her best spacing and killing tool, now it significantly weaker, and in general her attacks just seem more laggy (One in particular I remember being worse was her UAir, which seemed to just come out so much slower :/) Also, I found it hard to string DSmashes together like I did in Brawl. Maybe I just need more playing time with her, or maybe it's just my imagination, but I feel like she's.... much different now.

It does seem her kill moves have remained the same, though, with her BAir and FAir still being quite strong. While I was kinda complaining about UAir earlier, it's still a great juggle and even kill tool, and NAir is great for spacing. The new FSmash seems like a great new way to take advantage of her DSmash, and DSmash ---> FSmash, in theory, seems like a great combo. Also, was her grab buffed? I remember it being sooooo **** in Brawl, and maybe a buff to her grab is a reason as to why she's so hyped.

Anyways, you may have just read all of that wondering what the **** the point of all that was. Well, basically what I'm asking is "What should I do differently with ZSS in Smash 4 compared to Brawl? Are there any new moves / combos I should know about? Are there any important buffs / nerfs that I didn't mention? Were any of my assumptions / conclusions incorrect?" I feel kinda lost with her right now, especially considering her suit pieces and Side B were probably my favorite moves of hers.

Thanks for any and all help in advance :]

 

[LonelyJaguar]

Man, I haven't gotten the game yet (hopefully tomorrow!) but I've played as ZSS on a friends copy and I must say, she feels drastically different from Brawl. She seems to have so much hype around her, but the only real positive differences I see are her new FSmash and Dash Attack. Besides that, she's lost her suit pieces, her Side B, which was once one of her best spacing and killing tool, now it significantly weaker, and in general her attacks just seem more laggy (One in particular I remember being worse was her UAir, which seemed to just come out so much slower :/) Also, I found it hard to string DSmashes together like I did in Brawl. Maybe I just need more playing time with her, or maybe it's just my imagination, but I feel like she's.... much different now.

It does seem her kill moves have remained the same, though, with her BAir and FAir still being quite strong. While I was kinda complaining about UAir earlier, it's still a great juggle and even kill tool, and NAir is great for spacing. The new FSmash seems like a great new way to take advantage of her DSmash, and DSmash ---> FSmash, in theory, seems like a great combo. Also, was her grab buffed? I remember it being sooooo **** in Brawl, and maybe a buff to her grab is a reason as to why she's so hyped.

Anyways, you may have just read all of that wondering what the **** the point of all that was. Well, basically what I'm asking is "What should I do differently with ZSS in Smash 4 compared to Brawl? Are there any new moves / combos I should know about? Are there any important buffs / nerfs that I didn't mention? Were any of my assumptions / conclusions incorrect?" I feel kinda lost with her right now, especially considering her suit pieces and Side B were probably my favorite moves of hers.

Thanks for any and all help in advance :]

ZSS felt drastically different to me at first also, but she's still the same badass bombshell at the core of her gameplay in Sm4sh. I've spent a lot of time with her over the past 12 days, and I actually think she's better than she was in Brawl. I think she'll definitely be at the same tier position she was before, if not even higher this time around.

She has suffered quite a few nerfs, but she's also gotten some really good buffs, and some of her nerfs really aren't that drastic. Her Side B was nerfed but it's still a really good & important spacing tool. It's not a kill move anymore but the tip of that whip still stings! Also, if their damage is high enough, the inside of the whip actually knocks them quite a ways away which is good for getting them out of your face and can lead into a dash attack if you're quick enough. Uair was nerfed too, but it's still good as well. It comes out really fast and although it's not really a kill move anymore, it's really good for juggling. Her DSmash is probably the most tragic nerf. It comes out a bit slower, doesn't do as much damage, I think has less range, and doesn't keep the opponent stunned as long. You can't DSmash twice and still have time for another move like you did in Brawl. Bair and Fair also don't have as much knockback, but they're still good.

Her buffs though! The new FSmash is amazing, period. Great kill move. Her Up B took some getting used to, but it's really satisfying to connect with and is one of her best kill moves. Down B got a crazy buff. It works very similarly, but the kick at the end is much more powerful. If you choose not to kick, she footstools the opponent and spikes them in the air; they become buried if they were on the ground. It comes out faster than it did in Brawl and it covers more space. Her dash attack is way better now too, it goes almost half the length of battlefield and has good knockback for setting up aerials. Her Dair was buffed also but it's still a risky move to use. Her grab comes out a lot faster & has much less lag if you miss. Neutral B goes a little farther now too.

Despite the changes, Zamus still feels like the same character I fell in love with in Brawl. Bair is harder to connect with (at least for me) so I haven't used it much, but that's probably the only big difference between how I played her in Brawl & how I play her now. Her tilts are pretty much unchaged (ftilt is a bit stronger) and her jab is still a very important move. You'll want to familiarize yourself with how Down B works now, because it's her best kill move and it's great for messing with the opponent's head. Sooo many times I've been recovering and they think they'll edgeguard me, I throw out Down B at the last second and dropkick them across the stage to their death.

I don't know how other ZSS players use her (haven't seen many online) but my style revolves around Neutral B, dtilt, jab, dash attack & grabbing to get them in the air to juggle. Side B for spacing and Down B to recover & throw off the opponent.

Hope I helped!

 

[Colin Steele]

Indeed she is still quite strong. Much like her suited self, she has seen a lot of good changes, and a few bad ones, so of course she will initially feel drastically different.

Like others have stated, she has amazing ground and aerial game. Her side-b isn't dead, it just isn't a kill move anymore. Use it to space others away, but for larger, more powerful characters that will probably just clash through it, use short-hop z-air to space them, and dash them when you can, it's very powerful.

Her down-a was nerfed a good bit, but it still works well as a punish. Most of the time if you're fast enough you can get a smash out of it, if you're spaced properly.

Otherwise, just practice her, you'll find that she's still incredibly fun to play and rivals Sheik for mobility and options.

 

[Victor Coelho]

Hey there!

Im also willing to get better with the blondie. Im currently using Robin as my main but he is much more simple to use with effectively. So, i got a couple of questions based on some choco matches i've watched:

1 - How does he change the direction ZSS is facing during a jump? I guess i saw it a bnch of times... he jumped above the enemy, changed sides and shot the stun gun...

2 - What advanced tech i should learn with ZSS? The dash->grab is easy, but which others should i master? fox trot, perfect pivot, etc.... Robin does not require those complicated techs lol

3 - Any bread and butter combos with her? post the most used ones...

thanks so much!

Victor

 

[CupofT]

@ Victor Coelho

1. If he is in the air, then it's just tapping the other direction and then hitting neutral b? Don't have access to play right now so I can't 100% confirm

2, From what I have read in other threads, pivoting is very important. Pivot neutral-b, grab, side smash, f-tilt are all good tools to use. I'm working on my pivots but pivot f-tilt and grab have been working very well so far when dashing through my opponents shield.

3. down throw. Leads into like everything (u-air, n-air, f-air, up-b). U-air gives the most millage IMO as you can keep juggling at lower %.
Another combo I use is d-tilt > f-air plane (d-tilt around 0-20% ish). If my opponent is not air dodging you can get 2 f-airs, 3 f-airs if your opponent is not pressing buttons
(Edit for more combos)
D-smash > up-b for KO (or side smash, but up-b more reliable KO from my experience and reading other posts)
neutral-b > grab > down throw > stuff

Play around and let me know if my information wrong.
Good luck out there

 

[Victor Coelho]

@ CupofT

Hey bud, thanks so much for the help! I managed to try some stuff you pointed me and here's how it went lol

1. I just couldnt perform the change direction and follow with neutral b... It kept coming side special everytime lol, still need help here

2. Ok, i'll be honest. How do you properly pivot? I mean, i can easily dash, change direction and instantly follow with side tilt smash, but i see some people following with jabs and i just cant do it lol. How does pivot really work and/or looks like and is executed?

3. Thanks for those b&bs, they all worked fine! Just need to master. And that upspecial really does some damage after the dsmash

Cheers!

 

[CupofT]

Glad I can help!

pivot neutral b and air turn neutral b is something I need to work on as well. I'll play around and see if I can work on getting it down more accurately and come back with my inputs.

As for pivots, there's this thread here with more information:
/threads/perfect-pivot-foxtrotting-dashdancing.371139/

Seeing examples help with trying to practice.

 

[pichuthedk]

a few things you can double down smash to fair but they need to be right in your fave down smash Last longer the closer they are so if they are right in your face when you land it then it's possible (keep in mind if they hold down it reduces the stun time "apparently")
so you can in those circumstances double down smash ->aerial.

Her side b Is not just a spacing tool because there are gonna be many times in a Zss's life when they get someone stunned off stage and a lot of those times if your good with your side b spacing you can stage spike people by just sending them down with it.

Down b is a safe approach for people recovering off stage just so long as you don't use the kick, If they do not throw out a move or air dodge (I have even footstool spiked people using their up Bs) when your landing on top of them with down b you will footstool off of them which is her weaker meteor.

The best use for the down b kick is when people get stupid and think charging things like smashes at the ledge or any form of super laggy move from a distance , Down b will let you cover that in a matter of frames where you can throw out the kick.


and @ Victor Coelho If you use Robin you might have to find it within your heart to accept zss and all she is including the zss Robin infinite xD.

 

[pichuthedk]

I struggle a lot with getting kills and making combo's with her. I also think that I'm playing to fast, my defending is not that well....

I didn't forget about you I guess since you have trouble getting kills and juggling people try a little exercise,
Go and do 100 man melee and play it 5 times each time try to get the 100 kills by using one specific move so you can practice actually being able to land it them from the different positions the Mii's will be

make sure you do it with Nair and up air at the very least those are very good moves you need to be familiar with.
Try to do fair and bair as well and if your up for it zair this will give you a better understanding of how to land her moves since you will be doing it with only one move every single time varying between fast falling them ,short hopping them full hopping ect.

 

[LightningLuxray]

ZSS felt drastically different to me at first also, but she's still the same badass bombshell at the core of her gameplay in Sm4sh. I've spent a lot of time with her over the past 12 days, and I actually think she's better than she was in Brawl. I think she'll definitely be at the same tier position she was before, if not even higher this time around.

She has suffered quite a few nerfs, but she's also gotten some really good buffs, and some of her nerfs really aren't that drastic. Her Side B was nerfed but it's still a really good & important spacing tool. It's not a kill move anymore but the tip of that whip still stings! Also, if their damage is high enough, the inside of the whip actually knocks them quite a ways away which is good for getting them out of your face and can lead into a dash attack if you're quick enough. Uair was nerfed too, but it's still good as well. It comes out really fast and although it's not really a kill move anymore, it's really good for juggling. Her DSmash is probably the most tragic nerf. It comes out a bit slower, doesn't do as much damage, I think has less range, and doesn't keep the opponent stunned as long. You can't DSmash twice and still have time for another move like you did in Brawl. Bair and Fair also don't have as much knockback, but they're still good.

Her buffs though! The new FSmash is amazing, period. Great kill move. Her Up B took some getting used to, but it's really satisfying to connect with and is one of her best kill moves. Down B got a crazy buff. It works very similarly, but the kick at the end is much more powerful. If you choose not to kick, she footstools the opponent and spikes them in the air; they become buried if they were on the ground. It comes out faster than it did in Brawl and it covers more space. Her dash attack is way better now too, it goes almost half the length of battlefield and has good knockback for setting up aerials. Her Dair was buffed also but it's still a risky move to use. Her grab comes out a lot faster & has much less lag if you miss. Neutral B goes a little farther now too.

Despite the changes, Zamus still feels like the same character I fell in love with in Brawl. Bair is harder to connect with (at least for me) so I haven't used it much, but that's probably the only big difference between how I played her in Brawl & how I play her now. Her tilts are pretty much unchaged (ftilt is a bit stronger) and her jab is still a very important move. You'll want to familiarize yourself with how Down B works now, because it's her best kill move and it's great for messing with the opponent's head. Sooo many times I've been recovering and they think they'll edgeguard me, I throw out Down B at the last second and dropkick them across the stage to their death.

I don't know how other ZSS players use her (haven't seen many online) but my style revolves around Neutral B, dtilt, jab, dash attack & grabbing to get them in the air to juggle. Side B for spacing and Down B to recover & throw off the opponent.

Hope I helped!

First, I'd just like to thank you for such an amazing response. :D

I'm going to be completely honest in saying I don't even think I used Down B once when playing with her, lol. I'll definitely try to incorporate that into my game!

I also never really saw her Up B as a kill move, even though I think I remember seeing it being used as one in multiple games I watched on YouTube. I'll try to use that more often, too :]

I'll also try not to give up on Side B! You're right that I still definitely used it to space as I played, even if it wasn't killing like it did in Brawl.

Again, thanks for the response, I've just got the game and can't wait to get playing! :D

 

[ZeroMii]

I didn't forget about you I guess since you have trouble getting kills and juggling people try a little exercise,
Go and do 100 man melee and play it 5 times each time try to get the 100 kills by using one specific move so you can practice actually being able to land it them from the different positions the Mii's will be

make sure you do it with Nair and up air at the very least those are very good moves you need to be familiar with.
Try to do fair and bair as well and if your up for it zair this will give you a better understanding of how to land her moves since you will be doing it with only one move every single time varying between fast falling them ,short hopping them full hopping ect.

Okay, thank you! I shall try that then =)

 

[Victor Coelho]

@ CupofT

Thanks bud! I have this link saved and i keep checking it for practice. But i dont know how that guy is moving using his right hand (at least i have that impression). Also, everytime i open that thread i go to training with mac and i just cant do anything like that hahahahhaa

Anyway i'll keep trying!

@ pichuthedk

Oh yes, i'm gonna get everything ZSS has, dont worry lol =)

 

[PolarPanda]

First, I'd just like to thank you for such an amazing response. :D

I'm going to be completely honest in saying I don't even think I used Down B once when playing with her, lol. I'll definitely try to incorporate that into my game!

I also never really saw her Up B as a kill move, even though I think I remember seeing it being used as one in multiple games I watched on YouTube. I'll try to use that more often, too :]

I'll also try not to give up on Side B! You're right that I still definitely used it to space as I played, even if it wasn't killing like it did in Brawl.

Again, thanks for the response, I've just got the game and can't wait to get playing! :D

Her downb is, quite honestly, one of her best moves, and as long as you're not predictable, a really great advantage at any point in a game. If you have good timing and knowledge of hitboxes, you can get down landing pitfalls on opponents if you don't follow a pattern, and get a free smash attack with proper timing. Not only that, it regularly functions as a kill move rather efficiently. The difficulty lies in landing it and even getting that pitfall. It is also great for recovery, as you could downb into upb, and even have sideb left. It functions as great mobility as well, if you decide not to press downb again and do another kick. Also, sideb is amazing for it's zoning abilities, but you have to know when to use it and how to read or predict well enough.

 

[Victor Coelho]

Hey guys, its me again =D

In the grande finals between choco ZSS vc Nietono greninja we can see what was driving me crazy.
In 2:18 choco jumps over nietono greninja, turns around in the air and fire the neutral b when he lands,,, How the heck he does that?
Also, i saw that he managed to pivot afer a run with a neutral b aswell... please, i need help.. thanks!

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Hey guys, its me again =D

In the grande finals between choco ZSS vc Nietono greninja we can see what was driving me crazy.
In 2:18 choco jumps over nietono greninja, turns around in the air and fire the neutral b when he lands,,, How the heck he does that?
Also, i saw that he managed to pivot afer a run with a neutral b aswell... please, i need help.. thanks!

It's actually pretty easy and works with several characters - not just ZSS.

To do it, jump while moving in one direction, hit B and then quickly afterwards hit the opposite direction. I'm not sure about the frame data, but if you do it right, you'll start moving in the opposite direction while retaining your momentum and have a laser charging up in the meantime. It's a really effective mix-up to catch people off-guard. It works on the ground, too, which is also effective.