thatoneguy1
Smash Journeyman
if you follow 1-2-2-1 what does that mean? Do the bans reset after the next match or do they continue for the whole set?
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can somebody explain how stage bans work?
- Thread starter thatoneguy1
- Start date
Tremendo Dude
Smash Apprentice
Bans only apply for the round.
1-2-2-1 refers to the banning order for the first round of a match to decide which neutral stage the first round will be played on. You ban 1 stage, your opponent bans 2 more stages, you ban 2 more stages, and then your opponent picks a stage from the last two stages remaining (effectively banning the other 1).
In each round afterwards, the bans from the previous round no longer apply. The winner bans 3 stages (or 2 stages, depending on the rules), the loser picks a stage out of any remaining legal stages, the winner chooses his character, and then the loser chooses his character.
Most tournaments also follows Dave's Stupid Rule, which states that players cannot choose a stage that they have won on in an earlier round. For example, if you win the first round on Battlefield and lose the second round, even though your opponent will not ban Battlefield, you are not allowed to choose that stage. However, if the second round (the one your opponent won) was on Final Destination, you are still allowed to choose that stage, since you, the stage picker, have yet to win on that stage.
1-2-2-1 refers to the banning order for the first round of a match to decide which neutral stage the first round will be played on. You ban 1 stage, your opponent bans 2 more stages, you ban 2 more stages, and then your opponent picks a stage from the last two stages remaining (effectively banning the other 1).
In each round afterwards, the bans from the previous round no longer apply. The winner bans 3 stages (or 2 stages, depending on the rules), the loser picks a stage out of any remaining legal stages, the winner chooses his character, and then the loser chooses his character.
Most tournaments also follows Dave's Stupid Rule, which states that players cannot choose a stage that they have won on in an earlier round. For example, if you win the first round on Battlefield and lose the second round, even though your opponent will not ban Battlefield, you are not allowed to choose that stage. However, if the second round (the one your opponent won) was on Final Destination, you are still allowed to choose that stage, since you, the stage picker, have yet to win on that stage.
thatoneguy1
Smash Journeyman
so do the same then applies to the second row right? or can a counter pick also be a starter? if so can you ban counters and starters in the second round?
Starters are on the bottom and you have to pick one of them on the first round in order to give both players as much of an even ground as possible. Counterpicks come into play after match one of the set, where the loser of the previous round has the chance to sway the match in his favor with a different character and/or stage.
Bellioes
Smash Lord
A related question; in the 1-2-2-1 ruleset, who bans the first stage? The winner or loser of rock-paper-scissors?
Ive seen it both ways in tournament and I cant really tell which position is more advantageous...
Ive seen it both ways in tournament and I cant really tell which position is more advantageous...
Tremendo Dude
Smash Apprentice
I believe it's the winner of the RPS (or G&W Judgement, whatever the kids use these days) who gets the first ban.
ECHOnce
Smash Lord
It's the loser. It seems counter-intuitive, but if the winner gets first pick, then the loser ends up getting the final say on the stage choice, which is silly.
In W-L-W-L:
1) Winner bans 1 of the 7 on the bottom row,
2) Loser bans 2 of the remaining 6,
3) Winner bans 2 of the remaining 4,
4) Loser bans 1 of the remaining 2 and therefore has the final say.
Because of that, 1-2-2-1 stage banning usually let's the Loser of RPS ban first, so that the Winner ends up picking between the remaining two stages on the last ban. Alternatively - for those who get bugged by the fact that loser gets to go first - some groups use a 2-3-1 ban system, which allows the winner to ban first and still have the final say.
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