Can Dthrow > Uair be Airdodged?

[Darklink401]

I've been practicing with Shiek lately. She's been my 3rd main since the 3ds, but I gave her a break to practice with Marth and Jiggs.

But I decided to start practicing her again, and something I've noticed is:

Dthrow to Uair is great.

But I've been attempting it even at higher percents, and if I use my double jump to reach my opponents, and come into them already doing the uair, they don't seem to have time to airdodge before I catch them with the attack.

And I've gotten several kills already from this, just killed a Sheik when she was at 100% or so, by doing this. And this is a Shiek that had previously airdodged my dthrow > uair when I had only used one jump.


So I wanted to know if it CAN be airdodged, and my opponents either mistime the dodge or don't expect me to rise so quickly, or if it's actually not airdodgeable. x.x

 

[Tristan_win]

I've been practicing with Shiek lately. She's been my 3rd main since the 3ds, but I gave her a break to practice with Marth and Jiggs.

But I decided to start practicing her again, and something I've noticed is:

Dthrow to Uair is great.

But I've been attempting it even at higher percents, and if I use my double jump to reach my opponents, and come into them already doing the uair, they don't seem to have time to airdodge before I catch them with the attack.

And I've gotten several kills already from this, just killed a Sheik when she was at 100% or so, by doing this. And this is a Shiek that had previously airdodged my dthrow > uair when I had only used one jump.


So I wanted to know if it CAN be airdodged, and my opponents either mistime the dodge or don't expect me to rise so quickly, or if it's actually not airdodgeable. x.x

Dthrow into uair does combo for a fairly long time, hypothetically even at 140% on Mario but at such a crazy high percents if they DI away from you then you will never land it.Rage also greatly effects dthrow so if Sheik is at 100% its like your throwing a opponent at 130%. Let me find the numbers and then I'll update my post.

Your question is simple but it force me to look into DI again, it seems DI up does nothing now which I didn't know >_<'. I knew it wasn't that good anymore due to the removal of VI but I couldn't test no di to compare it to until I got the wii U.

 

[LogicallyHank]

Dthrow into uair does combo for a fairly long time, hypothetically even at 140% on Mario but at such a crazy high percents if they DI away from you then you will never land it.Rage also greatly effects dthrow so if Sheik is at 100% is like your throwing a opponent at 130%. Let me find the numbers and then I'll update my post.

Your question is simple but it force me to look into DI again, it seems DI up does nothing now which I didn't know >_<'. I knew it wasn't that good anymore due to the removal of VI but I couldn't test no di to compare it to until I got the wii U.

so when does DI work now? Under what circumstances?

 

[Darklink401]

Dthrow into uair does combo for a fairly long time, hypothetically even at 140% on Mario but at such a crazy high percents if they DI away from you then you will never land it.Rage also greatly effects dthrow so if Sheik is at 100% is like your throwing a opponent at 130%. Let me find the numbers and then I'll update my post.

Your question is simple but it force me to look into DI again, it seems DI up does nothing now which I didn't know >_<'. I knew it wasn't that good anymore due to the removal of VI but I couldn't test no di to compare it to until I got the wii U.

Most of the time they can just DI a bit to either side, but Sheik's jumps are fast enough where you can definitely catch them without them DIing away.

And if this is true, and as my experience has it (based on the fact heavier characters could be comboed like that at higher percents)

Then it should be possible to just kill anyone with that combo, in the right percent range.


Which would solve one of Sheik's only issues of killing things.

 

[Tristan_win]

so when does DI work now? Under what circumstances?

REALLY wish I knew about this video sooner

Most of the time they can just DI a bit to either side, but Sheik's jumps are fast enough where you can definitely catch them without them DIing away.

And if this is true, and as my experience has it (based on the fact heavier characters could be comboed like that at higher percents)

Then it should be possible to just kill anyone with that combo, in the right percent range.


Which would solve one of Sheik's only issues of killing things.

Well I wouldn't be thinking right off the bat that this means we have a guaranteed combo as it's very strange players better then us are not abusing it. I mean no disrespect but it's possible your friends aren't trying to DI before the throw which is how you get max distance.

edit2: This time not in broken English
edit: here the raw data I was talking about in my last post and I was right. With sheik at 100% Dthrow with rage effect give sheik like a extra +30% in knock back. This could explain why no one really notice this.

Spoiler

Sheik 0% Mario 0% dthrow
61
Sheik 40% Mario 0% dthrow
62
Sheik 50% Mario 0% dthrow
63
sheik 60% Mario 0% dthrow
63
Sheik 80% Mario 0% dthrow
65
Sheik 100% Mario 0% dthrow
67
Sheik 150 mario 0% dthrow
71

Sheik 0% Mario 0% dthrow
61
Sheik 0% Mario 10% dthrow
63
Sheik 0% Mario 20% dthrow
65
Sheik 0% Mario 30% dthrow
67
Sheik 0% mario 40% dthrow
68
Sheik 0% mario 50% dthrow
70
Sheik 0% mario 60% dthrow
72
Sheik 0% mario 70% dthrow
74
Sheik 0% mario 80% dthrow
75
Sheik 0% mario 90% dthrow
77
Sheik 0% mario 100% dthrow
79
Sheik 0% mario 110% dthrow
81
Sheik 0% mario 120% dthrow
82
Sheik 0% mario 130% dthrow
84
Sheik 0% mario 140% dthrow
86
Sheik 0% mario 150% dthrow
87
Sheik 0% mario 160% dthrow
89
Sheik 0% mario 170% dthrow
91
Sheik 0% mario 180% dthrow
93
Sheik 0% mario 190% dthrow
94
Sheik 0% mario 200% dthrow
96

 

[Darklink401]

True enough, maybe he just wasn't the best at DI XP Though this was someone on FG.

I mean, that'd certainly be cool. I think what's cool is that it's a multihit though, so you can actually move horizontally AS you do the move, meaning the last hit is always easier to hit.

 

[Tristan_win]

True enough, maybe he just wasn't the best at DI XP Though this was someone on FG.

I mean, that'd certainly be cool. I think what's cool is that it's a multihit though, so you can actually move horizontally AS you do the move, meaning the last hit is always easier to hit.

Well I'll admit I do suck at this game so maybe it's just me but I'm having trouble getting this to work on Mario at 100% in training mode at 1/4 speed. btw there's no rage or decay in training mode.

What I'm doing is having one controller direction stick tape completely left or right so when I switch the 'CPU Behavior' to 'Control' he will break into a run. This is also great left/right DI. I get in position with the cpu on 'stop', grab him, switch it to control then dthrow and then I attempt to get uair to work.

I can't seem to get it to combo, if it does work you will have a combo of '5'

 

[Darklink401]

Well I'll admit I do suck at this game so maybe it's just me but I'm having trouble getting this to work on Mario at 100% in training mode at 1/4 speed. btw there's no rage or decay in training mode.

What I'm doing is having one controller direction stick tape completely left or right so when I switch the 'CPU Behavior' to 'Control' he will break into a run. This is also great left/right DI. I get in position with the cpu on 'stop', grab him, switch it to control then dthrow and then I attempt to get uair to work.

I can't seem to get it to combo, if it does work you will have a combo of '5'

I did it at normal speed.

I had P2 in training mode holding all the way to the left, after I grabbed. I threw him down, jumped, then cancelled first jump with second jump, and immediately used the uair.

At 100%, it didn't kill Mario, but I doubt he could have airdodged.

Also what's a combo of 5? O.o

 

[Tristan_win]

I did it at normal speed.

I had P2 in training mode holding all the way to the left, after I grabbed. I threw him down, jumped, then cancelled first jump with second jump, and immediately used the uair.

At 100%, it didn't kill Mario, but I doubt he could have airdodged.

Also what's a combo of 5? O.o

haha, I should of man up! I'll have to remember to not use 1/4 again. Yeah I got it to work in normal speed at 100%.

That's the 'combo' meter on the left side of the screen, dthrow hit 1, 2-5 is the uair. This means Mario was in hit stun for the whole duration. Now that we tested DI and know it does combo in training mode the last two steps is trying to switching up the DI to see if maybe another angle mean's escape and finally testing this in VS mode. If VS mode testing shows this can't be escaped with proper DI and they can't trick sheik into missing by DI say toward her then this could be consider a true combo.

edit: Honestly I believe it wont be, still a damn good combo though.

 

[Darklink401]

haha, I should of man up! I'll have to remember to not use 1/4 again. Yeah I got it to work in normal speed at 100%.

That's the 'combo' meter on the left side of the screen, dthrow hit 1, 2-5 is the uair. This means Mario was in hit stun for the whole duration. Now that we tested DI and know it does combo in training mode the last two steps is trying to switching up the DI to see if maybe another angle mean's escape and finally testing this in VS mode. If VS mode testing shows this can't be escaped with proper DI and they can't trick sheik into missing by DI say toward her then this could be consider a true combo.

edit: Honestly I believe it wont be, still a damn good combo though.

To give you some nice info:

I put the CPU in Run and level 9.

I tested it around a bit, tryin to hit it a few times, on the ground and in the air. And, true to being a good level 9 Mario, the mothertrucker can airdodge like a ninja.

So, having established the level 9 CPU in training mode DOES still have godlike reflexes, I proceeded to the next step.

Do level 9s DI? Yup. Control Mario doing NOTHING at all, went almost straight up. While level 9 Mario, when I used dthrow, went significantly more to one side.


Then I put his damage up to 135%.

I grabbed, dthrow. Upair.

I got it to work most of the time, 2 times I was a bit slow, but strangely enough I FELT when I did it right, and it showed, because at 135%, Mario died EVERY time I connected.

Pretty high percent, but hey, Mario's not the lightest character, and this would then be at least a for-sure kill move with Shiek.

 

[Tristan_win]

To give you some nice info:

I put the CPU in Run and level 9.

I tested it around a bit, tryin to hit it a few times, on the ground and in the air. And, true to being a good level 9 Mario, the mothertrucker can airdodge like a ninja.

So, having established the level 9 CPU in training mode DOES still have godlike reflexes, I proceeded to the next step.

Do level 9s DI? Yup. Control Mario doing NOTHING at all, went almost straight up. While level 9 Mario, when I used dthrow, went significantly more to one side.


Then I put his damage up to 135%.

I grabbed, dthrow. Upair.

I got it to work most of the time, 2 times I was a bit slow, but strangely enough I FELT when I did it right, and it showed, because at 135%, Mario died EVERY time I connected.

Pretty high percent, but hey, Mario's not the lightest character, and this would then be at least a for-sure kill move with Shiek.

Yeah... I'm aware cpu di, they even DI when you put them on stop. Sakurai sense of humor is pure evil.

Well now that I'm not being a scrub I'm getting dthrow into uair to work at 160% at normal speed but I really can't stress it enough how important VS mode testing is. Training mode is nice and all but it's very hit and miss. I like to think it hits more then misses but infinites have been found in training mode that could be escape in VS mode so that will make or break this.

Training mode does make life a lot easier for testing new things though.

 

[Darklink401]

Yeah... I'm aware cpu di, they even DI when you put them on stop. Sakurai sense of humor is pure evil.

Well now that I'm not being a scrub I'm getting dthrow into uair to work at 160% at normal speed but I really can't stress it enough how important VS mode testing is. Training mode is nice and all but it's very hit and miss. I like to think it hits more then misses but infinites have been found in training mode that could be escape in VS mode so that will make or break this.

Training mode does make life a lot easier for testing new things though.

Oh well, I guess the different variables, such as rage, freshness of a move, etc are critical.

Man, if this works, then I'm gonna be happy XP


And yeah, the thing DIs on stop. like wtf. I was like "wait, it shouldn't be moving so to the left...."