Breaking Old Habits(Too Many Foward Smashes)

[MacDeezi]

I've been to a few tournies and after every match I ask for tips on what I can improve on and they all say to stop forward smashing so much. This really isn't too helpful because I don't know what I could do instead. What should I do in neutral instead of forward smashing?

 

[TheCandyman]

Marth in the neutral is tricky but incredibly effective. Make full use of that kick ass DD and WD and DD with a purpose. His DD is used primarily to bait out attacks and then punish. Dash Forward WD back is also very helpful in the neutral again for baiting and punishing. You don't always have to be doing something and that's something I see a lot of (for lack of a better word) scruby marths do. The'll jump around and space fairs while instead Running around and poking with D-Tilt is much safer.

WD D-Tilt is your best friend in the neutral it's Marth's fastest and best poke. Run Cancel and WD D-tilt are both good but I find WD D-tilt a bit easier.

Another thing is approaching like I mentioned earlier baiting is the name of the game. Stay to the ground and try to force your opponent to approach with poking, DD and JC Grabs

 

[MacDeezi]

Thanks for the advice! You said to DD and bait out attacks then punish, but what are some options for the punish game. I have done this before and I usually just punish using forward smash, but what are some other more optimal punishes?

 

[TheCandyman]

Well Grabbing is always great with Marth and in general a goal is to get your opponent into the air and juggle them. Against floaties U-air juggles shut them down very easily while against Spacies chaingrab could work and Sheik I have quite a bit of problems with but usually I just try to get them into an edgeguarding position.

Also F-Smash isn't always a bad option, if you are in tipper range like under YS platforms for example.

 

[Jim Jam Flim Flam]

I think that in many situations where I see marths fsmash they should do a shffled fair or nair instead. You can get the range of the fsmash but without the lag, and you can follow it up with other moves because they don't send you opponent as far as an fsmash

 

[AirFair]

Only fsmash to finish, not randomly.

If we are talking about the neutral, it's usually creating an opening for a grab, whether it's punishing a whiff or getting a dtilt.

What you do out of a grab depends on the character. Once you play more you will realize what throws/situations work best on which character.

Just keep dashdancing and use dtilt or rising fair before you go in, because you don't want to get punished.

 

[-=Untamed-Beast=-]

To really solve your problem, you have to ask yourself why you're fsmashing in neutral in the first place. If you can't determine an alternative of what you should do, maybe you shouldn't be do "anything" at all! Or just not throwing out laggy moves that are laggy and miss, which leave you vulnerable to DEATH because you're IN LAG!!! (a.k.a. Also consider why fsmash is bad, and then do things that are less bad, or good )
So let's do something less laggy. :D (almost everyting Marth can do is less laggy that randy f smashes)
So back to the Why: Where was the opponents when you decided to go full-committal? Grounded or in the air? Moving in what direction? Are they in lag from a rolling, missing or move, etc.?
-If they're flying at you with a move that you can outrange, fsmash is a bad choice because the endlag will keep you from comboing. You can shorthop aerial, tilt, spododge to grab, dashdance out of the way and grab, among other things. Using your movement.
-If you're tech-chasing, trying to make a read by fsmashing is a bad risk because if guess incorrectly, you completely lose your punish. Do faster things like trying to land and aerial or a dtilt to cover tech in place or one direction, and then you can pursue if they chose a different because those attacks hardly leave you in endlag. You can also wait or dashdance and react to techs, but unless your fsmash will kill them or lead you into an edgeguard, don't do it. Plus, like mentioned in the previous point, you give up the potential for combos if you just hit them with an fsmash. Landing a grab or a less laggy attack allot you much more combo potential, and therefore a better punish. If you can connect with an fsmash in nuetral, you can usually connect one of those better, safer options instead.
-Watch good Marths. If they aren't fsmashing in neutral yet succeeding, look at what they do! The basic concept, like AirFair was getting at, is that Marth's neutral is a lot of dashdances, dtilts, wavedashing, grabs, and sometimes rising Fair. Marth's superior movement is probably his greatest asset. Superior range is great too, but is hitboxes are often brief and leave in vulnerable (especially when airborne and not combing people), meaning you have to be wise about when you choose to swing. PPMD has a fantastic neutral game, so can take a lot of ideas from him and practice them.
-Fsmash is a big commitment that you don't have to make, especially when the reward at low %s is often not even worth the risk. Until you've gained an understanding of the game and/or your opponent where you feel you can wisely position and time good forward smashes, I'd advise not using them. Especially right now, when you're breaking the habit.

I think post this is a little sloppier and lengthy than I intended, but it's something. Ganbatte, amigo.

they all say to stop forward smashing so much. This really isn't too helpful

LIES

because

NO JOHNS