Bowsers Help. Past frustration.

[33percentgod]

I understand there's an advice/help thread, but it's tons of pages and I don't expect to get a great amount of personal replies, so I'm posting it here.

I'm going to begin this saying I have only played a little bit of the previous Smash Brother games. Reason being, I felt it was more about playing the engine rather than the characters/game. I do have a basic idea of the game itself.

I picked up the one for the 3ds and I really like it. I've been playing For Glory and doing pretty okay. My main character is Bowser. I've always picked him in Mario Kart and all the other Smash games. My problem is that I'm not super good with him in Smash Brothers. I'm not awful, but anyone my main issue is as follows and if anyone could give me help with tips or strategies I would really appreciate it.

Edgeguarding and being airborne. I have no defense to this. Once I get launched, It's over for me. It seems like Bowser has 0 moves to get back onto the stage and become viable. Every move he can use coming back onto the stage the enemy will easily dodge, such as the down smashes. If you don't attack, even when you land, it takes like 1 full second to regain any control, where the enemy just knocks me back up and I come floating down. Rinse and repeat. I have no idea how to counter this. I'll hit a character on the way down and he's up faster than me and coming at me when HE took the damage to begin with. Once I get airborne. It's juggling me over and over and I can't do anything. And this is against any character including mirrored Bowser. I just don't understand what to do.

Thanks for the help friends. Look forward to seeing you out there.

Edit: Also, I've noticed anyone I beat as Bowser IMMEDIATELY goes Ganondorf next round. Why?

 

[EndlessRain]

This should probably be in the Bowser sub-forum.
I might as well try to help you, while I'm here. If you are above the stage, try land a sideB. If you catch them, then boom! You are on the ground, and they are not. Dair works nicely as well, and is easier to hit with than sideB because they don't need to be right in front of you. You really need it to hit though, or they'll hit you while you're busy with landing lag. DownB has respectable armour, meteors at its start iirc, and works offstage as you can grab the ledge from it. Fair hits hard and comes out pretty fast, so that is an option when approaching from the side.
This is just from vs. Bowser experience, I don't use him myself. So take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[DakotaBonez]

For Bowser, it seems the safest thing to do when your launched is to try to grab the ledge. Once launched, fall off the side of the stage and grab the ledge. Once on the ledge youve got a couple of options, like rolling back onto the stage, or using a ledge attack on your opponent if they tried to follow you there.
I'm not a Bowser expert though, you should seriously try the Help and Advice thread
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-smash-3ds-help-and-advice-thread.371984/
or even better, the Bowser boards
http://smashboards.com/forums/bowser.393/

You can find experts on Bowser there.

Edit: Also, I've noticed anyone I beat as Bowser IMMEDIATELY goes Ganondorf next round. Why?

People get bored of fighting opponents they percieve as weaker and seek to end the matches quickly to build up their win/loss ratio. Ganon is a character who can finish matches very quickly with his heavy damaging attacks, and he can get a one hit KO if he uses his Side-B to grab ya and take ya with him for a suicide KO, these traits are shared by Bowser. I fight alot of matches where people switch to Bowser in an attempt to KO me with his deadly drop kick or suicide side-B. Other popular alts are the heavy hitters Little Mac and Ike.

 

[Mr. Bones]

This should probably be in the Bowser sub-forum.
I might as well try to help you, while I'm here. If you are above the stage, try land a sideB. If you catch them, then boom! You are on the ground, and they are not. Dair works nicely as well, and is easier to hit with than sideB because they don't need to be right in front of you. You really need it to hit though, or they'll hit you while you're busy with landing lag. DownB has respectable armour, meteors at its start iirc, and works offstage as you can grab the ledge from it. Fair hits hard and comes out pretty fast, so that is an option when approaching from the side.
This is just from vs. Bowser experience, I don't use him myself. So take it with a pinch of salt.

Down B has no armor and does NOT meteor at the start. Also using Dair to land is not easier to hit with than Side-B and it's not safe either. Dair is the one with the meteor at the start. XD You can use Down-B to bomb to the ledge though. Just be careful with the spacing.

It's better to catch someone shielding below you with Side-b. Or try using Fire Breath to cover your landings. Also if you Side-B immediately before hitting the ground, it can reduce your landing lag and you can just side-b again or jab or anything if they try to approach you.

As far as the neutral game goes, jabs and tilts are your best friend. Get your enemy offstage and follow them off to finish with a Bair or Fair. Nair can catch air dodges and set up into other attacks too.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ 33percentgod It seems you've gotten a couple good answers. Would you like more help? A lot of it comes down to understanding whether your opponent is respecting you or not, followed by the matchup itself, so we can definitely go over examples here, in the Q&A thread, or in the recently created Bowser Ledge Options thread (courtesy of @ KingKong_ad ).

 

[KingKong_ad]

When you are sent offstage try to go back to the ledge most of the time even if you can easily come back onto the stage. You have better option when you are at the ledge. I post a thread about your option while on the ledge, it can definitely help you. Though, if you are launched in the air but still not offstage and going to the ledge is impossible/not a good option, I recommand you to keep your second jump the most possible. If you waste it, it will be really hard to go back on stage.Landing can be done by dair and down b but they are really laggy. What I recommand you is to go away the most possible away of you opponent and using fire breath in their direction to negate their approach. You can use it as a mix up but not too often. Also footstool helps a lot, so you need to practice it. I love to down b just above my opponent when they think they can easily juggle me, it catches them offguard sometimes. Bowser can be easily juggled and its one of his big weakness, so don't be demotivated if you take 30%-40% before landing. You only need to hit them twice to get that much damage lol. But definitely, go for the ledge if you can.

 

[Jerodak]

Sometimes when you're recovering, it's best not to just hold towards the stage the entire time, especially if your opponent is jumping out to hit you with something. Sometimes holding back for a bit, can cause their follow-up to miss and lets you punish them with a Fair. Also knowing how to swing preemptively is something you might want to get the hang of, it's generally better to swing where your opponent is going to be than to swing where they are at, especially if their aerials are faster. However, be sure not to always do this because your opponent can get used to it then just start waiting for it so they can punish.

And when landing, if your opponent is expecting you to down b or Dair them, you can use the fear of those two moves to bait them into rolling away, then you can just fast fall down to the ground with relative safety. If they like to shield a lot, then a surprise down b can work but it's a bit safer to let them think an aerial is coming and side b them instead.

 

[Daybreak]

D-Air onto the stage and/or cancel your Bowser bomb on the edge. Remember you don't have to get back up on the edge immediately, take a millisecond to read your opponent. Hang around if you will.

P.S. Your up special on the ground comes out quick. Use it as a quick way to push them back.

 

[S_B]

I've noticed an odd trend for myself and other FG Bowsers on replays: I take the first stock super easy, but then it's like I lose focus and just start playing poorly with Bowser, and this seems to only be with Bowser. It's seriously like some part of my brain goes soft on me...

Anyone else had this happen to them?

 

[Mr. Bones]

D-Air onto the stage and/or cancel your Bowser bomb on the edge. Remember you don't have to get back up on the edge immediately, take a millisecond to read your opponent. Hang around if you will.

P.S. Your up special on the ground comes out quick. Use it as a quick way to push them back.

No pls. Dair should never be used as a substitute for a safe landing or defensively in any way. If you Dair as a panic-button while you're being juggled, most smart players will expect and punish it hard. Bombing the ledge is fine.

Dair should be used as an offensive mix-up if anything. Only use it when you're in control and not being pressured by the opponent. If you're able to mix it up defensively, go for it. Use it to punish anyone that chases you too aggressively in the air.

One exception is if you Dair immediately after you get out of a significant amount of hitstun, you'll do a slow floaty Dair that still has all of its killing power and can help you descend a bit more safely.

Also, Up-B is great and all, but shouldn't be spammed because its endlag is also pretty punishable. The safest quick moves are your jabs and tilts in the neutral game. Go for the harder hits when you're reading your opponent or punishing their mistakes. Fortress and Fire are good for punishing rolls and spot dodges.

Anyone else had this happen to them?

No.

 

[Karsticles]

I've noticed an odd trend for myself and other FG Bowsers on replays: I take the first stock super easy, but then it's like I lose focus and just start playing poorly with Bowser, and this seems to only be with Bowser. It's seriously like some part of my brain goes soft on me...

Anyone else had this happen to them?

I do the opposite, usually. I screw up a bunch on my first stock until I get to high %. Then I destroy with rage.

 

[Zigsta]

Dair to fsmash tricksie still works if you space it right. In Brawl I like to use dair as a mixup--the dair's windbox would push the opponent back, and if the opponent tried to run up and grab Bowser, fsmash would come out first. Vex did something similar with nairing shields.

 

[Daybreak]

No pls. Dair should never be used as a substitute for a safe landing or defensively in any way. If you Dair as a panic-button while you're being juggled, most smart players will expect and punish it hard. Bombing the ledge is fine.

Dair should be used as an offensive mix-up if anything. Only use it when you're in control and not being pressured by the opponent. If you're able to mix it up defensively, go for it. Use it to punish anyone that chases you too aggressively in the air.

One exception is if you Dair immediately after you get out of a significant amount of hitstun, you'll do a slow floaty Dair that still has all of its killing power and can help you descend a bit more safely.

Also, Up-B is great and all, but shouldn't be spammed because its endlag is also pretty punishable. The safest quick moves are your jabs and tilts in the neutral game. Go for the harder hits when you're reading your opponent or punishing their mistakes. Fortress and Fire are good for punishing rolls and spot dodges.



No.

None of the above options should be spammed, was just tossing the ball around for what works for me from time to time. Spamming any of these will get you punished pretty badly. The Fortress and Fire aren't used enough in the Bowser community, which is a crime. Jabs and tilits are definitely more preferred and are a great way to give yourself some room. Good advice on your part.

 

[Mr. Bones]

None of the above options should be spammed, was just tossing the ball around for what works for me from time to time. Spamming any of these will get you punished pretty badly. The Fortress and Fire aren't used enough in the Bowser community, which is a crime. Jabs and tilits are definitely more preferred and are a great way to give yourself some room. Good advice on your part.

Sorry if I sounded snarky or anything. XD Just the way you worded it made it seem like Dair onto stage would be the fine option any time.

Maybe it's just me though.

 

[Daybreak]

Sorry if I sounded snarky or anything. XD Just the way you worded it made it seem like Dair onto stage would be the fine option any time.

Maybe it's just me though.

It's all good. haha. Dair would get punished so badly if you did it often. You have great advice, I'm sure Bowser would be proud

 

[mustbepbs]

Also, Up-B is great and all, but shouldn't be spammed because its endlag is also pretty punishable. The safest quick moves are your jabs and tilts in the neutral game. Go for the harder hits when you're reading your opponent or punishing their mistakes. Fortress and Fire are good for punishing rolls and spot dodges..

Do you mean Down-B? Up-B is fortress.

 

[Zigsta]

Do you mean Down-B? Up-B is fortress.

While Bowser Bomb has a lot of end lag, Fortress still has enough lag that if spammed it's super easy to punish. I'm sure that's what Bonesy meant.

 

[Mr. Bones]

Do you mean Down-B? Up-B is fortress.

I've played Bowser for ten years. XD Bruh. I know Up-B is Fortress. Like Ziggy said, even Up-B has enough endlag to punish fairly hard on block.