Better training mode?

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Maybe it's just me but I think training mode sucks. Wtf is this crap. I know nintendo is attempting to appeal to tournament players. Isn't it time we demanded a better training mode? How pointless is spawning items?

it's 2015 it's time to step it up. Other games have online training mode , frame data & displays hit /hurt boxes. We get to spawn items? Is a simple record feature too much to ask for? Am I the only one displeased with this joke of a training mode?

Edit: can a mod change edit my poll I it's supposed to be training mode no training mo

 

[Siledh]

I like the ability to train my moves without the CPU or another player moving so I can get the inputs correct. If I want to train the actual moves in a live setting, I just play someone aware that that's what I want from them. To fight me, but allow me to work on the moves, etc. Then eventually, I'll tell them it's on and we got at it for real.

I do think Nintendo should release the frame data, etc. though, but I don't really think it's important in a training mode.

 

[Lavani]

Hit/hurtbox displays would be wonderful, but item spawning makes testing things more convenient at the least. "Falcon's dash attack has enough disjoint to safely detonate a Bob-omb but not a Gooey Bomb so it reaches this far in front of him", "Franklin Badges reflect this move, it's definitely reflectable", "I can sit in a Smart Bomb explosion until frame 20 so my roll is intangible through frame 19" etc. If Mythbusters taught me anything it's that explosives are a requisite for science.

I wouldn't expect hitbox displays to ever be a thing by Sakurai's hand at any rate, it's a bit technical for something he'd rather consider a casual party game.

 

[NotAnAdmin]

I agree, we should be able to see hitboxes and have a replay feature. I would love to see the way Falco's forward special works.
I doubt that the Smash community asking for more features will go over well. Sakurai doesn't really care much for the competitive side of Smash.
Understand though, Smash Bros training mode has always been mediocre compared to others. It's there mostly to get your bearings and get down the basics of your characters and a couple techs here and there that don't require much input by the CPU.

 

[Deleted member]

I mostly just wish the speed could go lower than 1/4, maybe with 1/5 as the lowest speed instead, and that you could get rid of the cpu in training mode. The cpu gets in my way too often, so I would be thrilled if there were an option to just get rid of it. Frame data would be lovely too though. Hitbox data would be great as well, but that's easy enough to test for yourself.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I mostly just wish the speed could go lower than 1/4, maybe with 1/5 as the lowest speed instead, and that you could get rid of the cpu in training mode. The cpu gets in my way too often, so I would be thrilled if there were an option to just get rid of it. Frame data would be lovely too though. Hitbox data would be great as well, but that's easy enough to test for yourself.

Why would you want to het rid of the cpu? That doesn't make much sense.

I know that training mode has been lackluster for years but that doesn't mean we should accept things as they are. I mean it's already bad enough with the way patchrs are done. Then when I loom at other games I think why doesn't smash have this feature?

 

[Deleted member]

Why would you want to het rid of the cpu? That doesn't make much sense.

If I wanted a still opponent I'd go into vs mode and use the gamepad as player 2 then leave it alone, and if I wanted a CPU opponent I'd just do it in vs mode. I use training mode to practice ATs, not to smack around an opponent, and the CPU just gets in the way a ton. Like I'll be practicing IZAC, b-reversing, or wavebouncing when I accidentally hit the CPU and now the camera ends up getting all messed up to accomodate for the CPU being knocked away and/or disrupt the particular trick I'm trying, or I'll be trying to perfect pivot around FD but the CPU is always going to be in the way. Overall it's just a huge nuisance, so it makes no sense that there isn't an option to get rid of the CPU yet.

 

[TheAnomaly]

I agree, we should be able to see hitboxes and have a replay feature. I would love to see the way Falco's forward special works.
I doubt that the Smash community asking for more features will go over well. Sakurai doesn't really care much for the competitive side of Smash.
Understand though, Smash Bros training mode has always been mediocre compared to others. It's there mostly to get your bearings and get down the basics of your characters and a couple techs here and there that don't require much input by the CPU.

I feel your pain brother. This move has baffled me since the brawl transition. From what I have discovered the hitbox is terrible, falco's hurtbox is in front of the hurtbox so it is generally unsafe and getting the timing and range down for a safe snap to the ledge is quite hard. This took me quite a while to discover over much playtime which could have been simply solved by a better training mode.
What I don't understand is why Sakurai seemingly hates us competitive players so much? Would releasing patch notes or a non mandatory paid download with frame data in training and hitboxes etc. be so bad? It could even be the non-default option with an option to display it. He has incentive to do it and makes more money. The competitive players who are actually serious get what they want and the casuals are unaffected. How is this not a win for everyone involved?

 

[teluoborg]

Why would you want to het rid of the cpu? That doesn't make much sense.

I know that training mode has been lackluster for years but that doesn't mean we should accept things as they are. I mean it's already bad enough with the way patchrs are done. Then when I loom at other games I think why doesn't smash have this feature?

Yo do you even read your messages before telling people they don't make much sense ?
What do you think this thread is going to achieve, except have a bunch of people post their wishlist for what a training mode should look like ? Are you going to fly off to Japan, show the results of the poll to Sakurai and force him to rework training mode ?

"...but that doesn't mean we should accept things as they are." Well if the alternative is crying about it on a forum hoping Nintendo notices you and panders to your special needs then yes, it is preferable to accept things as they are.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Yo do you even read your messages before telling people they don't make much sense ?
What do you think this thread is going to achieve, except have a bunch of people post their wishlist for what a training mode should look like ? Are you going to fly off to Japan, show the results of the poll to Sakurai and force him to rework training mode ?

"...but that doesn't mean we should accept things as they are." Well if the alternative is crying about it on a forum hoping Nintendo notices you and panders to your special needs then yes, it is preferable to accept things as they are.

I've never played a FG where you have the option to get rid of the CPU in training mode. His post makes as much sense as your does. I'm just curious how people feel about training mode and if others feel like it's as underwhelming as I do. Anyways I just wanted to see where other players minds are at.

If these features made or broke a game for me I wouldn't play smash. The lack of the features are going to change my views going forward. There's a certain standard that's becoming a norm in FG. But I digress. *sigh*

 

[Deleted member]

I've never played a FG where you have the option to get rid of the CPU in training mode. His post makes as much sense as your does.

The fact that other fighting games don't have that option is irrelevant to the fact that it would be helpful for people, and is not a reason why it would 'make no sense' to have it in the game (and I find it ironic that you're attacking it as not making sense when you haven't given a logical reason why it doesn't). If you wouldn't use the feature then you'd be able to simply ignore it like the other features, just like how you'd expect the same of casuals with frame and hitbox data even though casuals would say having those features wouldn't make sense. Honestly, what did you expect people to post here other than a wishlist of ideas for training mode? And Teluoborg is right, this thread won't change anything. If there's a feature that you want but someone else doesn't want then let them be instead of telling them that they 'make no sense'. Our opinions won't change anything, and you should be respectful of different opinions in the first place, so let's just respectfully disagree.

 

[teluoborg]

I've never played a FG where you have the option to get rid of the CPU in training mode. His post makes as much sense as your does. I'm just curious how people feel about training mode and if others feel like it's as underwhelming as I do. Anyways I just wanted to see where other players minds are at.

If these features made or broke a game for me I wouldn't play smash. The lack of the features are going to change my views going forward. There's a certain standard that's becoming a norm in FG. But I digress. *sigh*

The norm in FG is that you can't deliberately turn your back to your opponent. There aren't platforms and you can win a round by dropping your opponent's health to 0.
In case you haven't noticed in the 15 years the franchise has been out I'm going to be brutal : Smash isn't a standard FG. Stop being upset about it.

And if you really are just curious abot how people feel about training mode then starting your discussion with "Wtf is this crap." and "Isn't it time we demanded a better training mode?" is probably the worst way to do so.
All you achieve this way is make you look like a spoiled brat that thinks Nintendo owes him something, and it makes me think that you don't really want to start a discussion but rather have somewhere to vent your frustration about Nintendo not delivering you your dream game.

 

[Big-Cat]

Visible hitboxes is something that's probably not going to happen. If Namco and Capcom aren't doing it, don't expect Nintendo. Same thing for frame data. The only game I know that even provides that in game is Virtua Fighter 5.

All we really need is just a recording option. It'd be useful for finding DI paths and how to escape strings. The only other thing that might be worth implementing is one feature from Tekken. The characters change change color depending if they're in the middle of an animation or not. It's good for finding IASA frames.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

The norm in FG is that you can't deliberately turn your back to your opponent. There aren't platforms and you can win a round by dropping your opponent's health to 0.
In case you haven't noticed in the 15 years the franchise has been out I'm going to be brutal : Smash isn't a standard FG. Stop being upset about it.

And if you really are just curious abot how people feel about training mode then starting your discussion with "Wtf is this crap." and "Isn't it time we demanded a better training mode?" is probably the worst way to do so.
All you achieve this way is make you look like a spoiled brat that thinks Nintendo owes him something, and it makes me think that you don't really want to start a discussion but rather have somewhere to vent your frustration about Nintendo not delivering you your dream game.

We cannot change what smash 4 is however, considering there's DLC and they've been opening up to the competitive scene. I don't think it's a stretch may words my sound like a call to arms. However, my point is why do we allow for such substandard aspects of the game.

Also cut the crap buddy I purchase a product. There's an aspect of the product I dislike so I voice my displeasure. That is all. Anyways there's a third option in my poll you can just cast your vote for that one. That's about how much relevance you've brought to this thread.

Visible hitboxes is something that's probably not going to happen. If Namco and Capcom aren't doing it, don't expect Nintendo. Same thing for frame data. The only game I know that even provides that in game is Virtua Fighter 5.

All we really need is just a recording option. It'd be useful for finding DI paths and how to escape strings. The only other thing that might be worth implementing is one feature from Tekken. The characters change change color depending if they're in the middle of an animation or not. It's good for finding IASA frames.

Games with frame data I've played are IJGAU and skullgirls. I knoe that mkx has it as well. The reason Capcom doesn't have in game frame data is because they have the Brady guides. I'm not saying that it's the norm of every game but the training mode compared to other games leaves much to be desired. Also skullgirls has hit boxes and stuff. I'm sure almost every fg has a replay function. Most are getting online training modes we get to spawn items.....yyay.

 

[Freduardo]

I just wish with the fact that you have 2v2 for glory matches, you can do two-man training and work on some real evil combos.

 

[Big-Cat]

Games with frame data I've played are IJGAU and skullgirls. I knoe that mkx has it as well. The reason Capcom doesn't have in game frame data is because they have the Brady guides. I'm not saying that it's the norm of every game but the training mode compared to other games leaves much to be desired. Also skullgirls has hit boxes and stuff. I'm sure almost every fg has a replay function. Most are getting online training modes we get to spawn items.....yyay.

I knew Skullgirls had visible hitboxes and a hitstun meter, but not in game frame data. Must have added that in an update.

 

[teluoborg]

However, my point is why do we allow for such substandard aspects of the game.

But that's where you're wrong : you don't get to allow anything. Hope you understand.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I knew Skullgirls had visible hitboxes and a hitstun meter, but not in game frame data. Must have added that in an update.

I'm not really sure it's been a while since I've played but it's been in for a while. Skullgirls training mode was one of the best I've come across. I'm not expecting everything to be like that but we can do better than what we currently have.

But that's where you're wrong : you don't get to allow anything. Hope you understand.

I do allow it though. Nintendo provides a product which I consume. I should have sought a product that would satisfy me. Not simply accept whatever Nintendo decides to hand down. There's a couple of things that I dislike which will prevent me from supporting the game going forward.

I'll explain a bit what I mean I don't think I'm going to buy lucas as DLC. I disliked the mewtwo process and really not interested in Lucas. My fan boy days are over basically. I'd like the community to be more involved see more things during development. Letting players test the character before release or taking player feedback. But yeah man as it stands now I'm done supporting sm4sh because it's smash. You can do as you wish though.

 

[Shoopdawooper]

What I would like to see is programmable cpu behavior (In training mode or otherwise) Say, you're struggling with edgeguarding against opponents who recover high, or low, or whatever. Then you can demonstrate the desired behavior, and the cpu could pick it up like the amiibo do. So then you can practice very specific situations. What if my opponent DI's left/right etc. I realize this will probably be a difficult feauture to implement technically. But still, me wants

(On a related note, learning/customizable cpu behavior would be awesome for single player content aswell.)