Best training for S.H.A.D. conditioning?

[JAZZ_]

Hey guys, I've been exploring different options with my techniques, however I roll WAY too much. I've read consistently that a s.h.a.d. is the best option for samus' trump game but Finding good examples of this in video form for the average googler is failing me. training myself has been touch and go and in a fight I dont feel confident enough to implement something I cant even land properly in training mode. Luckily my game has adapted to my heavy reliance on power shield and roll outs ( f tilt and jabs to the max) but it leaves me playing hyper defensively against skilled opponents and leaves me very little options once I have their pattern down pat. my average FG win ratio has been 6.77 wins out of 10 against various high skilled opponents but I find if one player beats me, they tend to keep playing me because I will get my way at least one stock each match.

So I turn to those who are more killed then I to help guide my progress in the way of "The Hunter".
What helped you to perfect the use of S.H.A.D. ? Any training techniques and video examples would be most appreciated. Help me expand my tool kit. Thanks much
~JAZZ

 

[Fluidityt]

Travel the entirety of FD doing only SHAD Then go to center stage and do a left SHAD, Then Right, then left, and see how many you can do back and forth like that.

Start slow, going for input accuracy. Progressively work your way up speed wise to where you can do one right after another, so you never really see her land. You'll know you are doing it fast enough if you can start from left edge of FD facing left, SHAD backwards, and can make it all the way to the right of the stage WITHOUT ever facing right. The same for the Left-right drill, Samus should never change direction. (That should be your goal, since if you need to do retreating ZAIRs then obviously if you face the wrong way while SHAD you won't hit anything).

Then start throwing in UAIR, Nair, Bair, and Zair. Then go to FG and do some games where your only movement and attacks are SHAD. The key to getting aerials (other than zair) is to AD immediately after you SH. Otherwise, you will land still in middle of AD.

I find that sliding / rolling my finger off / across the jump button helps me to SH in tense battles instead of "lightly tapping" which may end up as a full hop. This is a universal technique not just for SHAD.

Just keep practicing. It'll stick eventually. If you keep rolling by accident, or end up shielding and not jumping, you need to slow down and focus on input accuracy, then work back up to speed.

And remember, mistakes happen to the best of everyone, and doing a roll isn't the end of the world in a match. In fact, I roll sometimes to mix up from SHAD or to condition opponent (they will start reading your SHAD). Don't get discouraged.

Just do what you can, don't focus on wins, and just focus on improving your skills. Each loss is an opportunity to grow, even if it's from a mistake you've made a hundred times before, or against someone who wasn't "as good as you." And if you are down a stock or a game, don't get frustrated, just pretend each second remaining is like the start of the first round; you can't die if you don't get hit, even if you are at 200% and last stock, and he's at 0% with two.

In the end, you are Samus, and that in and of itself means a lot, especially considering how weak she is. We're not necessarily going to win any tournaments as of right now, but we are still a good fight, and playing Samus is fun (most of the time); we keep the meta fresh. Focus on that, and just doing as best as you can, you will undoubtedly get better; even if it isn't reflected in your win/loss ratio.

 

[Xygonn]

I still roll because I play other characters and it's a good move for most of them with certain spacing. I shouldn't but I do.

To practice SHAD, just go to training mode and practice it, especially OOS because that is the hardest time to do it and where it truly replaces roll.

I use a classic controller pro for Wii or the Gamepad so that I have two shoulder buttons on the left side. I SH oos and slide my left index finger down to the other button to do it oos. Otherwise you have to quickly release and press shield, which is super hard on a GC controller.

Figure out your windows for your different options out of SHAD, bair is the tightest, then nair, then uair/upb, finally zair which you can do during the AD. Upb out of SHAD is a good mixup if you have been using bair or nair a lot and they are starting to read it. Against taller characters, SH straight into uair, nair, or bair without the AD so they don't know for sure when the pressure is coming. If you are basically frame perfect you can get rising SH uair->first hit of uair (or upb) before you land (I think), you can definitely get SH bair->first hit of uair so you can threaten them even when they think you have spent your "only" SH attack.

 

[JAZZ_]

I still roll because I play other characters and it's a good move for most of them with certain spacing. I shouldn't but I do.

To practice SHAD, just go to training mode and practice it, especially OOS because that is the hardest time to do it and where it truly replaces roll.

I use a classic controller pro for Wii or the Gamepad so that I have two shoulder buttons on the left side. I SH oos and slide my left index finger down to the other button to do it oos. Otherwise you have to quickly release and press shield, which is super hard on a GC controller.

Figure out your windows for your different options out of SHAD, bair is the tightest, then nair, then uair/upb, finally zair which you can do during the AD. Upb out of SHAD is a good mixup if you have been using bair or nair a lot and they are starting to read it. Against taller characters, SH straight into uair, nair, or bair without the AD so they don't know for sure when the pressure is coming. If you are basically frame perfect you can get rising SH uair->first hit of uair (or upb) before you land (I think), you can definitely get SH bair->first hit of uair so you can threaten them even when they think you have spent your "only" SH attack.

I've been using the gamepad when I play online, I can play closest to the router that way.

Spoiler

My Control scheme:

• A: Attack
• B: Special
• X: Jump
• Y: Grab
• C Stick: Attack (Not Smash, primary use for quick tilts)
• R: Shield
• ZR: Grab
• L: Shield
• ZL: Shield

I found out that I never used the Y button for jump with the Gamepad when I Accidentally left it on grab after a friends suggested scheme 2 months ago. Yesterday I was fiddling around with my control scheme to find out it was still on grab. So I toyed around with SH Zairs that were harder to hit with the triggers and found Y was not difficult to transition into using quick Zair Ledge ups (where you drop down while holding the ledge, immediately jump and Zair up onto the platform, pushing the opponent away for easy recovery) and for the first time I can now space opponents aerial approaches with quick Zairs. #findingmymeta

When I play with friends I tend to use a fight pad which is a classic pro controller designed exactly to the layout of a Gamecube controller.

I've been practicing with SHAD into Bair, I notice that Nair after the AD only gets off the first forward kick, and Fair love taps target with 1 spark of flame not much knock back.
But I really appreciate the tips, Its been very insightful.

 

[Xygonn]

I've been using the gamepad when I play online, I can play closest to the router that way.

Spoiler

My Control scheme:

• A: Attack
• B: Special
• X: Jump
• Y: Grab
• C Stick: Attack (Not Smash, primary use for quick tilts)
• R: Shield
• ZR: Grab
• L: Shield
• ZL: Shield

I found out that I never used the Y button for jump with the Gamepad when I Accidentally left it on grab after a friends suggested scheme 2 months ago. Yesterday I was fiddling around with my control scheme to find out it was still on grab. So I toyed around with SH Zairs that were harder to hit with the triggers and found Y was not difficult to transition into using quick Zair Ledge ups (where you drop down while holding the ledge, immediately jump and Zair up onto the platform, pushing the opponent away for easy recovery) and for the first time I can now space opponents aerial approaches with quick Zairs. #findingmymeta

When I play with friends I tend to use a fight pad which is a classic pro controller designed exactly to the layout of a Gamecube controller.

I've been practicing with SHAD into Bair, I notice that Nair after the AD only gets off the first forward kick, and Fair love taps target with 1 spark of flame not much knock back.
But I really appreciate the tips, Its been very insightful.

Yeah, nair is only the forward kick, but it's super useful. You get tech chases from like 40% to about 70%. Never use fair as you will suffer the 30 frame landing lag and only get off that one weak hit. Really not worth it.

You have a lot of shoulder buttons set to shield. I would recommend changing "R" or "L" to jump, whichever you use least for shielding. This makes upb OoS trivial once you get the muscle memory (assuming tap jump is off for you). I find it's easier to jump and push up b with a shoulder button than with the face buttons.

 

[Fluidityt]

Yeah, nair is only the forward kick, but it's super useful. You get tech chases from like 40% to about 70%. Never use fair as you will suffer the 30 frame landing lag and only get off that one weak hit. Really not worth it.

You have a lot of shoulder buttons set to shield. I would recommend changing "R" or "L" to jump, whichever you use least for shielding. This makes upb OoS trivial once you get the muscle memory (assuming tap jump is off for you). I find it's easier to jump and push up b with a shoulder button than with the face buttons.

For using the gamepad, or other typical controller, I have X and Y as jump: I just slide my finger from Y to B for SHCS and upBoos, and X to A for SH aerials. Really can't do this on a GC controller without lubrication on the controller. L for shield, R for grab. Works for me.

I've used the GC controller since Melee and start of Sm4sh, but once I figured out the sliding techniques and how easy the shoulder presses were, I doubt I'll ever use a Gamecube controller again.

 

[DungeonMaster]

I actually use the wii u pro as well and likewise, will never go back. The extra triggers and comfort...

As for the OP: computers are actually good for this sort of training in my opinion. 1-2 set to high level/amiibo. Try for SH-AD -> punish.

 

[JAZZ_]

I actually use the wii u pro as well and likewise, will never go back. The extra triggers and comfort...

As for the OP: computers are actually good for this sort of training in my opinion. 1-2 set to high level/amiibo. Try for SH-AD -> punish.

interesting... using comps is something I've overlooked. Thanks guys.

PS. Tap jump is never an option for me

 

[CommanderVimes]

Sorry for the lameness, but S.H.A.D? I'm new to this forum. Is that just a short hop air dodge with zero landing lag? Can Samus input an attack after one before landing like Villager and some others can?

 

[Xygonn]

Sorry for the lameness, but S.H.A.D? I'm new to this forum. Is that just a short hop air dodge with zero landing lag? Can Samus input an attack after one before landing like Villager and some others can?

Yeah, we are floaty enough that we can deliver the first hit of nair, bair, or the first couple hits of uair out of a SHAD before landing (also start special moves or cancel at any time with zair).

 

[CommanderVimes]

Cancel specials with zair?

That's really neat. I was doing that type of thing a whole lot with my characters in the 3DS days but didn't know it could be cool or viable. I'll have to give Samus another go.

 

[Xygonn]

Cancel specials with zair?

That's really neat. I was doing that type of thing a whole lot with my characters in the 3DS days but didn't know it could be cool or viable. I'll have to give Samus another go.

Can't cancel specials with zair. You can cancel air dodge with zair.

 

[Fluidityt]

Cancel specials with zair?

That's really neat. I was doing that type of thing a whole lot with my characters in the 3DS days but didn't know it could be cool or viable. I'll have to give Samus another go.

Yeah.. .playing Samus really is a mind game. You really have to condition opponent then switch things up. Everything revolves around CS pretty much and getting them to run into it

 

[JAZZ_]

Can't cancel specials with zair. You can cancel air dodge with zair.

I accidentally discovered this today, its not related to SHAD but it reminded me of this comment. I canceled my charging the CS with a grab. Have you found this yourself, if so, what other things cancel CS charging? (besides roll or shield)

 

[Xygonn]

I accidentally discovered this today, its not related to SHAD but it reminded me of this comment. I canceled my charging the CS with a grab. Have you found this yourself, if so, what other things cancel CS charging? (besides roll or shield)

That's pretty much it, but if you are charging on a platform you can buffer a shield drop so that you drop without your shield ever coming up. It's significantly more forgiving than a regular shield drop.

 

[JAZZ_]

I'm curios to know if anyone has any good video examples of SHAD applications? Reading is great but I'd love to see visually what good SHAD use looks like. I'm finding in FG I struggle with testing it out and still roll or run. If it wasn't for my good use of tilts I'd have a win ratio of about 1/10.

Ps. there are a few terms I keep seeing pop up in these forums that I am not 100% sure on their translation.
If anyone could clarify what OOS means (Out of Shield?)

EDIT: forgot to mention my average Win ration is 6.7 out of 10

 

[Xygonn]

I'm curios to know if anyone has any good video examples of SHAD applications? Reading is great but I'd love to see visually what good SHAD use looks like. I'm finding in FG I struggle with testing it out and still roll or run. If it wasn't for my good use of tilts I'd have a win ratio of about 1/10.

Ps. there are a few terms I keep seeing pop up in these forums that I am not 100% sure on their translation.
If anyone could clarify what OOS means (Out of Shield?)

OOS is out of shield. Your OOS options that take place instantly are actually only grab, roll, and jump. You can cancel the jump with an upb or up smash during the jumpsquat animation so those are also fast OOS options. Anything else requires you to go through 7 frames of animation to drop the shield. The fastest anyone can act on landing if they hit your shield is 10 frames, that is ZSS landing from up air to a frame 1 jab.

 

[JAZZ_]

OOS is out of shield. Your OOS options that take place instantly are actually only grab, roll, and jump. You can cancel the jump with an upb or up smash during the jumpsquat animation so those are also fast OOS options. Anything else requires you to go through 7 frames of animation to drop the shield. The fastest anyone can act on landing if they hit your shield is 10 frames, that is ZSS landing from up air to a frame 1 jab.

Yea I was just watching a video on that actually. Oh and I tried applying the bumper jump for my control scheme. I don't think I can use it for jumping normally but I will try the OOS application for it. SH are just easier for me with X as Jump.

 

[Neldy09]

I play on the 3ds, and i recently changed my layout to this:

http://imgur.com/2Q0SW1B

I've found that having the jump and shield button applied right next to each other makes SHAD a breeze, and places shield (roll) to a position of deliberate use instead of reactionary. The re-configuration of my layout has thrown me for a loop though, and I'm wondering if the re-vamp is worth it? What do you other 3ds'ers do? any suggestions for a better system?