Best game with a true to Samus... Samus?

[❤ Nikodemus05]

IMO it's Project M. They did her right in that game, and is one of the reasons I play it so much. For the first time in smash I finally feel like I'm playing HER from HER games, not just some robot with projectiles. Smash 4 did terrible in this aspect with her. They went with her Other M design, so why not use her sensemove, melee grabs, etc. from that game? @-@ Thanks Sakurwhy.

 

[zblaqk]

I agree with you, and unfortunately we only have soo much influence on Samus as a character in Smash 4.

 

[Zylach]

I'd agree that PM did the best to make her more like she is in her own games but I'd argue that no smash game has actually made her into who she is. Look at Megaman who has an almost purely ranged playstyle. That's how Samus should be besides attacks like Screw Attack and perhaps keeping moves like usmash and fair because she has used fire like that before and having melee attacks is necessary in a game where reflectors can truly ruin your day as a projectile heavy character. She really should be completely redesigned with the design theory of Megaman in mind since they are so similar. Honestly, she can have a variety of different missile based attacks. Ice missiles, homing missiles, super missiles, plus beams like the wavebuster and ice spreader from prime that used missiles. Missiles are the basis of her gameplay in the actual Metroid games.

Then, imagine having different beams do different things for her separate smash attacks. Imagine a plasma beam shot for a fsmash that goes through enemies (doubles and ffa), or ice spreader as her dsmash that would freeze enemies in place if they're close enough and create a short lived trip zone further away from the initial blast which would make it kinda like ZSS' but with more utility over a larger area of influence. I'd keep her dtilt the same but change her ftilt into a short range flamethrower attack or maybe a wavebuster pulse. I'd probably take inspiration from Super Metroid's special bomb attacks for her aerials like the plasma bomb or wave bomb as a nair perhaps with shorter range than in Super Metroid obviously lol.

 

[❤ Nikodemus05]

I'd agree that PM did the best to make her more like she is in her own games but I'd argue that no smash game has actually made her into who she is. Look at Megaman who has an almost purely ranged playstyle. That's how Samus should be besides attacks like Screw Attack and perhaps keeping moves like usmash and fair because she has used fire like that before and having melee attacks is necessary in a game where reflectors can truly ruin your day as a projectile heavy character. She really should be completely redesigned with the design theory of Megaman in mind since they are so similar. Honestly, she can have a variety of different missile based attacks. Ice missiles, homing missiles, super missiles, plus beams like the wavebuster and ice spreader from prime that used missiles. Missiles are the basis of her gameplay in the actual Metroid games.

Then, imagine having different beams do different things for her separate smash attacks. Imagine a plasma beam shot for a fsmash that goes through enemies (doubles and ffa), or ice spreader as her dsmash that would freeze enemies in place if they're close enough and create a short lived trip zone further away from the initial blast which would make it kinda like ZSS' but with more utility over a larger area of influence. I'd keep her dtilt the same but change her ftilt into a short range flamethrower attack or maybe a wavebuster pulse. I'd probably take inspiration from Super Metroid's special bomb attacks for her aerials like the plasma bomb or wave bomb as a nair perhaps with shorter range than in Super Metroid obviously lol.

I agree having everything from her games into that style would be cool (Super Metroid Ice beam pulse pls.). Realistically though, they couldn't factor THAT many things in and still keep her an in check character. The best thing character we have that is probably the most unique in the cast is Shulk, and he's pretty simple. I would love a mode to use different beams and missiles though, that's for sure. I'm sure they could find a way. If anything, she'd probably be seriously much better with new beams but the same flaws she has now. Too bad Sakurai probably won't do this because of his "Don't change anything the casuals will notice." ideology. If anything, it'd hype up the casuals.

 

[IsmaR]

If Ganondorf and Mario/Doc are any indicator, they wouldn't change anything that drastically at the risk of "alienating fans of their previous Smash incarnations."

Meaning even though Samus should be playing like a mix of Gunner and Mega Man, and hell even Zero Suit Samus, she'll never do so.

I would at least appreciate the small features back, like actual useful Bomb Jumping, and the Extender/Grapple Beam trick from Melee.

 

[Zylach]

I agree having everything from her games into that style would be cool (Super Metroid Ice beam pulse pls.). Realistically though, they couldn't factor THAT many things in and still keep her an in check character. The best thing character we have that is probably the most unique in the cast is Shulk, and he's pretty simple. I would love a mode to use different beams and missiles though, that's for sure. I'm sure they could find a way. If anything, she'd probably be seriously much better with new beams but the same flaws she has now. Too bad Sakurai probably won't do this because of his "Don't change anything the casuals will notice." ideology. If anything, it'd hype up the casuals.

I bet that kind of design could be balanced. I imagine she'd work kinda like a mix between Megaman and Sub Zero from Mortal Kombat using her dsmash ice spreader to keep opponents out and punish them for getting in. I think all the OP stuff from the original Metroid games could be toned down like everything else that was brought to smash: missiles, screw attack, etc.

Sakurai certainly wouldn't do it though. He redesigned Bowser and Yoshi but the redesigns weren't nearly as big as the changes I mentioned. I know he prefers giving character bases somewhat of the same style of play throughout games without overhauling characters too much so the changes aren't jarring to fans of the character. I think Samus is the most deserving of a big redesign though especially because the hardware limitations of the N64, when Samus was introduced into smash, wouldn't allow for the kind of character she was in Metroid games so the team couldn't be as true to her as they should have been.

I think the best job the development team has done to reference a character's main franchise is Megaman. Literally all of his moves were taken straight from his franchise as opposed to basically every character. Other characters that have great representation of their main franchises are Villager, Toon Link (Not so much Link because nair and bair. Where did those come from?), Robin, Shulk, Olimar (borderline), Bowser Jr. G&W, and Ryu (he's kinda cheating because he's transitioning from a fighting game to another fighting game lol). Some characters are really hard to represent like Pokemon since they should canonically only have 4 moves to fight with. Samus, on the other hand, canonically has a huge repertoire to choose from and they skimped on her in smash giving her a lot of leg based attacks which she's never used in any game where all of those attacks could totally be replaced by more fitting Metroid material as evidenced by other long-range fighters. Mii gunner is the best example of this. Honestly, Mii gunner and Megaman are what Samus should have been in terms of playstyle. Long-range poke/keep away. I don't think Sakurai really knew how to implement this kind of playstyle until now unfortunately and Samus is a victim of that. Now, I don't think he's willing to make the changes necessary to make her into what she really deserves because he's afraid of changing characters too much.

 

[MOM Samus]

New game, new chance, new character. Characters need to change with each Smash game. Some can remain the same. "Alienating fans of a character's past moves" is nonsense. Sounds to me like the dev team doesn't want to think up and design new moves.

 

[Zylach]

New game, new chance, new character. Characters need to change with each Smash game. Some can remain the same. "Alienating fans of a character's past moves" is nonsense. Sounds to me like the dev team doesn't want to think up and design new moves.

I don't really think the dev team wants to do that at all. While it may sound like laziness on their part, you also have to remember all the work that went into the game. Redesigning every character (or, at least, looking at every character and changing what doesn't work) is a lot of extra work that might have pushed the game back to some time this year perhaps.

 

[MOM Samus]

I don't really think the dev team wants to do that at all. While it may sound like laziness on their part, you also have to remember all the work that went into the game. Redesigning every character (or, at least, looking at every character and changing what doesn't work) is a lot of extra work that might have pushed the game back to some time this year perhaps.

Don't get muh wrong. The game looks like an insane amount of work. It would just take so much longer to think up new moves for every last character--including DLCs. And it's not just that. Only special/knowledgeable people can create move based on actual games. It would severely limit the brainstorm of moves to create, especially unknown characters like Wario Ware.

 

[Varia31]

I would agree that Project M does it best. The Morph Ball crawl, the new roll, the ice mode, charging in the air, etc. It's all very nice!

Personally, even though I'm comfortable with her classic play style in Smash, I wouldn't mind a redesign. Like Mega Man, I feel she should play like she does in her games, being quick, agile, and having a lot of firepower. I'm not saying make it just like Metroid, though, because then her sheer firepower would be OP. lol

Samus has also proven to be monstrously strong, something that Smash fails to reflect. I know, I know, "balancing", and all that good stuff, but maybe to balance out her quickness and firepower, have her melee be slower and more deliberate akin to Ganondorf? Like, her weapons are good for zoning and dealing damage, while her melee is more risky but serves as her best way to score kills?

I mean, c'mon, she throws this giant lava whale into a wall and kills it. You have to admit, it would be an awesome feeling to have better throws and stronger melee moves.

Oh, and there's this feat from a manga. Not a canon manga per say, but... hey.

Spoiler

 

[MOM Samus]

The Power Beam alone is OP because of the devastating force it has. I could assemble reasons why Power Beam is OP as hell if you'd like.

 

[Varia31]

The Power Beam alone is OP because of the devastating force it has. I could assemble reasons why Power Beam is OP as hell if you'd like.

Like the fact that Metroid weapons apparently run on terawatts? Or that in the origin Manga at least Samus was shooting down ships with it? Or how in the games a charged shot blows away rubble? Or the fact that the thing is an unknown energy type that can even kill the supernatural (e.g. Choose ghosts)?

 

[MOM Samus]

Like the fact that Metroid weapons apparently run on terawatts? Or that in the origin Manga at least Samus was shooting down ships with it? Or how in the games a charged shot blows away rubble? Or the fact that the thing is an unknown energy type that can even kill the supernatural (e.g. Choose ghosts)?

Those were some of the reasons, but impressive to know that you know. :D

I was getting at how literally forceful it is. A single basic shot blows away crates that would needed to be lifted by a Ferrocrusher in Other M. Just one shot sends enemies flying (as seen in cutscenes). But of course they don't allow you to do that to enemies in-game. That'd make the games way to easy. Enemies withstanding hundreds of Power Beam shots? Doesn't happen. I'd even argue that her Power Bomb has a spray effect, as seen with Gandrayda.

Boost Ball madness is also real, LOL. Still want revenge on Boost Guardian *mad Lenny*

You're basically getting blasted with deadly energy that comes with a massive force to probably beam me through a wall.

 

[Varia31]

Those were some of the reasons, but impressive to know that you know. :D

I was getting at how literally forceful it is. A single basic shot blows away crates that would needed to be lifted by a Ferrocrusher in Other M. Just one shot sends enemies flying (as seen in cutscenes). But of course they don't allow you to do that to enemies in-game. That'd make the games way to easy. Enemies withstanding hundreds of Power Beam shots? Doesn't happen. I'd even argue that her Power Bomb has a spray effect, as seen with Gandrayda.

Boost Ball madness is also real, LOL. Still want revenge on Boost Guardian *mad Lenny*

You're basically getting blasted with deadly energy that comes with a massive force to probably beam me through a wall.

Metroid is my favourite game series, so I have done extensive delving into lore and statistics with it. lol Nice to meet someone who shares my enthusiasm for it.

I forgot about the crate part in Other M, but I do remember parts in Corruption and such where she was one-shotting Pirates. I wish that Samus was more faithful to her games in Smash. I think she would be more unique (and fun) that way.

That freakin' Boost Guardian. I hated the Spider Guardian more, though.

 

[MOM Samus]

Spider Guardian royally ticked me off to no end. At first, it was Boost that had my vendetta, but he didn't seem like much on Hypermode. I can see the Spider boss making you mad, but nothing ticked me off more than Alpha Blogg. I kept trying to go for Super Missiles, but that kept getting me hit. I've literally had 1 health left and been one shot away from killing it, but died. Happened at least 3 times. And I hardly save because I like to rush, so Alpha was always one to piss me off.

 

[MOM Samus]

Where do you live in US? You should add me. I play Samus alight.

 

[Varia31]

Hated the Alpha Blogg, too. That reminds me, I think Samus could use the Boost Ball, don't you think?

Where do you live in US? You should add me. I play Samus alight.

Look for Varia31 on Wii U if you want to!