Best character to deal with Fox's bad MU's?

[Ravedous]

I enjoy maining Fox alot probably because mained him since 64, but im going offtrack. Lately I have been running into problems with some characters and im not naming any so i dont get bullied around *cough* SHEIK *cough*. I need a secondary that counters the other top/high tiers but who? I'd like a character from the Original 12 but hey pretty much any veteran that will be a 100% forever character in the ssb series im ok with

 

[DavemanCozy]

Sheik is a hard matchup for Fox, but Fox is quite capable of coming on top on this matchup though. A secondary is not necessarily needed.

I like Mario for the MU, he does pretty well against her, though I don't think it's an advantage for him either (even at best imo).

Rosalina has Luma to stop needles and make follow ups harder for Sheik. She isn't conventional to use though, and I also don't think that she beats Sheik (even at best, imo).

I've heard some people saying Lucario, Meta Knight, and Kirby have unique traits that can make the matchup a bit more tolerable, though I don't think any of these characters win either. Lucario has aura to let him abuse rage since Sheik typically has a hard time KOing, Kirby has his crouch stance that lets him avoid needles + some of her tilts and grab, and then MK has his multiple jumps and can get a lot out of rage too.

 

[Skarfelt]

I feel like if there is any character strong enough that you can play them with less practice than your main and still beat Sheiks better than you, you should just main that secondary (except maybe Mario but you're going to get needle camped anyway). Like there is no low tier who randomly beats Sheik and the matchup is hard for basically everyone in the game - imo, you're better off just putting time into learning the MU as Fox (that you're going to usually have to play in game 1 anyway) than weakening your Fox overall by spreading yourself across two characters.

 

[M@v]

I think Fox has one of the better matchups in the game vs sheiks to be quite honest. I don't think its any worse than 45:55 for Fox. You just have to be really aware of bouncing fish because it can ruin you off stage if you don't respect it.

 

[Hattie]

I have to agree, I think Fox does quite well against Sheik (or at least, as well as any character can do against Sheik). I don't think picking any secondary is really going to help for this MU.

DI is absolutely crucial to coming out on top; just remember that Fox has a super easy time killing Sheik compared with Sheik killing Fox. Honestly, 1.1.10 probably improved this matchup for Fox. Fox's kill confirms can wreck Sheik. The spaced Jab-Jab-Upsmash works extremely well on Sheik, better than probably anyone else in the cast. Dair to Up Smash also works extremely well.

I honestly think the MU could be as high as 50:50, maybe even in Fox's favour (There, I said it). I've faced about 10 Sheiks in tournaments and never lost. Maybe I've yet to face a truly good Sheik, I don't know, but I've never really struggled with the MU. Just keep practicing with Fox, and you'll probably do fine.

As for a secondary for against Rosaluma, Yoshi and Sonic... See GLaDOS 3000's (my old account) thread ;-)

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I think the MU is probably either even or a slight 55:45 in Sheik's favor. :o I think Sheik giving Fox rage and Fox being able to kill her at 90% if not lower with rage is super useful. That and her being a fastfaller makes our utilt string last longer which effectively makes us outdamage her which makes us losing neutral more not as big of a deal. It's even more potent when you take into account that utilt OoS is probably our best OoS option and just a really good OoS in general for this game.Sheik also has a really hard time landing if we can get her without a jump, because of utilt and dash attack beating a lot of her aerials while we're below her.

 

[Turrin]

Fox only has a few bad matchups across the board, and most (if not all) of them aren't bad enough to warrant a secondary in my opinion. The best objective secondary with better matchups against pretty much everybody is Sheik herself - but if you keep switching to Sheik as a secondary, you'll probably just end up switching to main Sheik since she just has better matchups overall. This is pretty much the formula for how top players end up switching to top-tier characters in general.

 

[Comorant]

I carry Ness to reduce the carpal tunnel development that comes with Fox. Aside from that though, Meta Knight stands out. Deals with Luigi and Ness okay, is an alternative for the Fox vs Sheik situation (though Fox doesn't have that big an issue), and surprisingly gives Rosa a hard time.

 

[Tenretsujin10]

Fox is a good enough character to be solo main'd. I personally hate playing against Pikachu (because Up-tilt hurts) so I play Sheik in only that specific matchup.

Against Sheik, I would opt Meta Knight or Pikachu, the Fox vs Sheik matchup is annoying but at worst is 6:4.

 

[Hattie]

I wouldn't say that solo maining fox is quite the way to go. Unless you are a LOT better than the other player you will always struggle against the likes of Rosalina, Sonic and Yoshi. Ness as a secondary is, I would say, a bad idea, because Rosalina is probably Fox's worst matchup, and it's even worse for Ness. I think the pikachu MU is OK for Fox. Yes, Up tilt hurts, but ours hurts just as bad. As long as you stay on stage, you should be fine.I'm still not sure about the Luigi MU. It's a weird one, because they both wreck each other in different situations.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I think the only MU that probably needs a secondary is Luigi. Everything else is doable tho I like to opt for a secondary vs Rosa too sometimes.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Kirby would be good, even matchup Sheik and an original 12 character.

Although the only other top tier matchups he wins are Fox are Falcon (I think Falcon is high tier but some people consider him top tier

 

[Tenretsujin10]

I wouldn't say that solo maining fox is quite the way to go. Unless you are a LOT better than the other player you will always struggle against the likes of Rosalina, Sonic and Yoshi. Ness as a secondary is, I would say, a bad idea, because Rosalina is probably Fox's worst matchup, and it's even worse for Ness. I think the pikachu MU is OK for Fox. Yes, Up tilt hurts, but ours hurts just as bad. As long as you stay on stage, you should be fine.I'm still not sure about the Luigi MU. It's a weird one, because they both wreck each other in different situations.

I have a friend who plays Rosalina who I beat rather consistently, and just played an MV/DA Yoshi who most likely plays at Xanadu in tournament. They're hard matchups, but not out of sight. But Pikachu vs Fox is definitely a losing matchup since Fox easily gets 0-50'd every stock guaranteed. Fox can still obviously win, but he starts at a deficit most likely.

 

[AvengerV]

If I can't beat somebody with Fox I usually try my Diddy. But my Fox is better than my Diddy usually but some people aren't ready for him.

 

[JBix]

Being a newer player I have a lot of trouble switching between characters and maintaining a decent level of play. Is their a character that feels (speed, weight, fast fall) similar to fox that would help with difficult mu's? Also I have a terrible time with R.O.B. my friend plays him and even though I can reflect a good portion of his projectiles. That Damn top makes things mighty hard. It just sitting on the field makes any of of my aerial kill setups (dair->upsmash, weak nair->upsmash) obsolete since I cant chase for the upsmash. Anyone have some advice?

 

[Tenretsujin10]

Being a newer player I have a lot of trouble switching between characters and maintaining a decent level of play. Is their a character that feels (speed, weight, fast fall) similar to fox that would help with difficult mu's? Also I have a terrible time with R.O.B. my friend plays him and even though I can reflect a good portion of his projectiles. That Damn top makes things mighty hard. It just sitting on the field makes any of of my aerial kill setups (dair->upsmash, weak nair->upsmash) obsolete since I cant chase for the upsmash. Anyone have some advice?

The ONLY character imo that meets the criteria you mentioned while helping with Fox's difficult matchups is Sheik. ZSS could be an option too, if you can handle her less than stellar neutral game.

Against ROB, just take measured approaches and go ham when you land a combo starter, ROB gets the tar combo'd out of him. Something cool that Fox can do if there's a Gyro on the field is run up to it, Down-B then roll or spotdodge since you can do those options if you successfully reflect something.
- As for killing him, try more grounded setups that convert into Up-air. Example, Side-B > Up-air and Up-tilt > Up-air.

 

[JBix]

The ONLY character imo that meets the criteria you mentioned while helping with Fox's difficult matchups is Sheik. ZSS could be an option too, if you can handle her less than stellar neutral game.

Against ROB, just take measured approaches and go ham when you land a combo starter, ROB gets the tar combo'd out of him. Something cool that Fox can do if there's a Gyro on the field is run up to it, Down-B then roll or spotdodge since you can do those options if you successfully reflect something.
- As for killing him, try more grounded setups that convert into Up-air. Example, Side-B > Up-air and Up-tilt > Up-air.

Thank you for the advice! I will definitely try going for upair setups more. Honestly, I probably go for upsmash to much, so that is probably why I am struggling so much.

 

[Top Boss]

i absolutely hate the luigi matchup as fox. i tend to use rob against him, and wall him out with fair, laser etc so he cant get in on me. also the gyro can absorb his fireballs at times. could someone tell me that matchup ratio to make sure im not an idiot lol

 

[Tenretsujin10]

i absolutely hate the luigi matchup as fox. i tend to use rob against him, and wall him out with fair, laser etc so he cant get in on me. also the gyro can absorb his fireballs at times. could someone tell me that matchup ratio to make sure im not an idiot lol

IMO, Fox vs Luigi is 6:4 Luigi's favor. This is a matchup where you have to play Fox very patiently/measured to win. Poor approaches can lead to Luigi's busted grab and combos, poor recoveries/landings can lead to death, and poor combo strings can lead to getting Nair combobreaker'd. I had the pleasure of playing Boss in tournament, that guy was literally chaingrabbing me game 2 for a solid 50%.

My personal take on how to win the matchup:
- Try to rack on any amount of damage (avoid using not true combos) until about 25-30%. This includes dash attack, grabs, and lasers. Going for early combos will probably fail since you'll get Nair'd, grabbed, and combo'd.
- After the above % is met, try to hit Luigi and convert with juggles. Your moves should have enough knockback/hitstun to avoid getting combobroken. Luigi is floaty and keeping him in the air is pretty key.
- Don't get overzealous with raw upsmashes, I literally threw a game with a stock lead because I thirsty with them.

 

[Top Boss]

ahhh ok, thanks for that. i find myself getting hit by that nair one too many times.

 

[Tenretsujin10]

After playing around with other characters for a bit, in my opinion I find Meta Knight to be the best available Secondary that's not Sheik. What Meta Knight can do that Fox can't?

- Capable of actually edgeguarding someone.
- Land extremely early kill confirms (Up-Air strings into Shuttle Loop).
- Has meaningful grabs, with combos & potential kill throws.
- Solid and not very abusable recovery.

Meta Knight does well against:
- Sheik
- DECIMATES Rosalina & Luma
- Luigi

Those are a few of Fox's hardest matchups, and he fairs well against them.

 

[Top Boss]

After playing around with other characters for a bit, in my opinion I find Meta Knight to be the best available Secondary that's not Sheik. What Meta Knight can do that Fox can't?

- Capable of actually edgeguarding someone.
- Land extremely early kill confirms (Up-Air strings into Shuttle Loop).
- Has meaningful grabs, with combos & potential kill throws.
- Solid and not very abusable recovery.

Meta Knight does well against:
- Sheik
- DECIMATES Rosalina & Luma
- Luigi

Those are a few of Fox's hardest matchups, and he fairs well against them.

metaknight seems to compliment fox, as you can see. how do you think wario would be to compliment fox?

 

[JBix]

What about Pit?

 

[Tenretsujin10]

metaknight seems to compliment fox, as you can see. how do you think wario would be to compliment fox?

I don't know enough about wario to give a well-rounded answer :/ I've seen really good Wario's play like Boss but I dunno how he would compliment Fox's weaknesses other than a better recovery, better air mobility, and the heavy pressure of the fart.

What about Pit?

Pit would be good, he can:

- Edgeguard
- Great grab game, with guaranteed combos & his fthrow being able to kill
- Solid projectiles
- Good recovery
- Good raw smash attacks
- Disjoints
I would opt Pit if I need to play a grapple based game, where instead of looking for kill setups like Fox or hard punishes you can just keep chipping them with damage and eventually kill them.

 

[DavemanCozy]

The only character that has given me a really difficult time playing as Fox is against Rosalina. I agree with Mav that it probably is Fox's hardest MU, she just doesn't let him in and our options to get rid of Luma are limited. I picked up Wario for that MU, I feel he wins vs Rosa slightly while Fox complements Wario's bad mu vs Yoshi and Sheik. Coincidentally, since I saw Luigi mentioned, I also think Wario beats Luigi slightly.

 

[Tenretsujin10]

The only character that has given me a really difficult time playing as Fox is against Rosalina. I agree with Mav that it probably is Fox's hardest MU, she just doesn't let him in and our options to get rid of Luma are limited. I picked up Wario for that MU, I feel he wins vs Rosa slightly while Fox complements Wario's bad mu vs Yoshi and Sheik. Coincidentally, since I saw Luigi mentioned, I also think Wario beats Luigi slightly.

I saw a video of Zage (Pacman) vs Boss (Luigi) where Pacman just completely dumps on Luigi via Campy Jank, in case that interests anyone.

 

[M@v]

Fox can get away with being solo mained imo, but Rosalina will give you a lot of trouble, and so can luigi and robin (Stage dependent on the last two). Of course there's always sheik, and ZSS can cover you too. Conveniently, I think Falco is a sleeper pick for a good fox secondary. That was you can rock the Starfox team. Although I still think he loses vs rosa, I feel falco does much better, either a 45:55 or a 4:6 at worst. He beats robin , and the jury is still out for me vs luigi. Its a matchup that feels like both sides can wreck eachother's stock. A luigi grab or gimp is super brutal, but at the same time Reflector is amazing vs him, and Falco owns luigi offstage; Fast Fall Fair to Footstool gimp on Luigi is a thing for Falco, and its much safer to do than Fox's. But I recommend finding people you like to use; the roster is so big and so full of viable characters it shouldn't be hard to find a secondary.

 

[Tenretsujin10]

Fox can get away with being solo mained imo, but Rosalina will give you a lot of trouble, and so can luigi and robin (Stage dependent on the last two). Of course there's always sheik, and ZSS can cover you too. Conveniently, I think Falco is a sleeper pick for a good fox secondary. That was you can rock the Starfox team. Although I still think he loses vs rosa, I feel falco does much better, either a 45:55 or a 4:6 at worst. He beats robin , and the jury is still out for me vs luigi. Its a matchup that feels like both sides can wreck eachother's stock. A luigi grab or gimp is super brutal, but at the same time Reflector is amazing vs him, and Falco owns luigi offstage; Fast Fall Fair to Footstool gimp on Luigi is a thing for Falco, and its much safer to do than Fox's. But I recommend finding people you like to use; the roster is so big and so full of viable characters it shouldn't be hard to find a secondary.

Falco gets edgeguarded A LOT harder than Fox due to Falco's mediocre Fire Bird distance. The neutral game is also significantly harder for Falco too due to his slow speed, and he gets hit by everything Fox would get hit by since Falco is also a fastfaller. I dunno about Falco doing better than Fox :/ I tried playing a Falco against a Rosalina main and got SLAPPED. Against Luigi I can see how Falco can win, but Fox is capable of winning the matchup.

 

[Jamurai]

I find MK compliments Fox well. MK definitely beats Rosa and the Luigi MU is more or less even. MK doesn't solve the Sheik problem though, having rediscussed the MU recently we've concluded that it's actually our hardest MU. Both Tyrant and Ito struggled against VoiD at Indigo Plateau recently. But then again, no one beats Sheik (yet).