tsmfoxmaster
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What are some basic fox techs I should master as a fox main?
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Beginner fox training?
- Thread starter tsmfoxmaster
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Archelon
Smash Journeyman
In my opinion the most important thing you can learn after all the basic tech like L-cancel, SHDL is Waveshining. It makes your punish game significantly better and is also very useful when pressureing shields.
First of all MAKE SURE you are practising this to always be hitting a character or shield because if you learn to wavedash too quickly (ignoring hitlag or whatever) it is super hard to unlearn (at least in my experience).
The way I worked on it was by first just shining and wavedashing out (on a character or shield of course). Practise on characters with high-ish traction like peach and falcon with grabs, up-smash and d-smash with out a dash. On characters like Marth, you need to do a dash after, then a JC grab or up-smash. I recommend for grab and u-smash on high traction characters doing the JC anyways because it only costs you a couple of frames and you have lots of time on high traction characters anyways (no harm getting in the good habit).
Once you have that down, the next step is working on waveshine-waveshine-waveshine etc. Start on Peach or Zelda, who have the highest traction do a waveshine on them, then another waveshine right after. You want to do the second shine fairly quickly during the wavedash. I say to wavedash out of the second shine because then when you work on several waveshines in a row it's easier because you're not stuck in shine.
Once you have the second down, work on getting a third, fourth etc. Once you can do this easily, work on ending the chain with u-smash, grab and D-smash.
Then move on to Falcon, who has a bit less traction, doing the same things. Go back to Peach/ Zelda every so often too.
Eventually, you should move on to Sheik, the hardest top tier character to waveshine who you can actually waveshine. (With Marth he goes to far and you the need just JC grab/u-smash him with a dash, and for fox/ falco/ puff, you need to thunders' combo, which I'll get to in a next).
On Fox, Falco and Jigglypuff, you need to perform a "thunders' combo", since they are knocked down by your shine. It's basically jab resetting them out of you waveshine. It's pretty tricky. FWI, the timing is that you need to hit them after they first hit the ground but before they hit it the second time after they bounce. If you notice that they are consistently teching your shines, you basically just need to tech chase them because you can't jab reset them.
In terms of choosing which option to pick after you string of waveshines, u-throw u-air does more damge than a u-smash if you can land it on the character at that percent, espeacially if you get multiple u-airs. At kill percents you should always just u-smash regardless because it's more reliable. D-smash is if you waveshine someone to the edge of the stage and think you can use d-smash to gimp them (and u-smash won't kill). This is especially useful on Captain Falcon.
Hope I could help!
First of all MAKE SURE you are practising this to always be hitting a character or shield because if you learn to wavedash too quickly (ignoring hitlag or whatever) it is super hard to unlearn (at least in my experience).
The way I worked on it was by first just shining and wavedashing out (on a character or shield of course). Practise on characters with high-ish traction like peach and falcon with grabs, up-smash and d-smash with out a dash. On characters like Marth, you need to do a dash after, then a JC grab or up-smash. I recommend for grab and u-smash on high traction characters doing the JC anyways because it only costs you a couple of frames and you have lots of time on high traction characters anyways (no harm getting in the good habit).
Once you have that down, the next step is working on waveshine-waveshine-waveshine etc. Start on Peach or Zelda, who have the highest traction do a waveshine on them, then another waveshine right after. You want to do the second shine fairly quickly during the wavedash. I say to wavedash out of the second shine because then when you work on several waveshines in a row it's easier because you're not stuck in shine.
Once you have the second down, work on getting a third, fourth etc. Once you can do this easily, work on ending the chain with u-smash, grab and D-smash.
Then move on to Falcon, who has a bit less traction, doing the same things. Go back to Peach/ Zelda every so often too.
Eventually, you should move on to Sheik, the hardest top tier character to waveshine who you can actually waveshine. (With Marth he goes to far and you the need just JC grab/u-smash him with a dash, and for fox/ falco/ puff, you need to thunders' combo, which I'll get to in a next).
On Fox, Falco and Jigglypuff, you need to perform a "thunders' combo", since they are knocked down by your shine. It's basically jab resetting them out of you waveshine. It's pretty tricky. FWI, the timing is that you need to hit them after they first hit the ground but before they hit it the second time after they bounce. If you notice that they are consistently teching your shines, you basically just need to tech chase them because you can't jab reset them.
In terms of choosing which option to pick after you string of waveshines, u-throw u-air does more damge than a u-smash if you can land it on the character at that percent, espeacially if you get multiple u-airs. At kill percents you should always just u-smash regardless because it's more reliable. D-smash is if you waveshine someone to the edge of the stage and think you can use d-smash to gimp them (and u-smash won't kill). This is especially useful on Captain Falcon.
Hope I could help!
tsmfoxmaster
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Great post Archelon! But should I practice basics like short hop and L cancelling all my aerials. Before I do multi shining and waveshining?
Last edited:
Archelon
Smash Journeyman
For sure. Honestly, you can hold off on multishining for a while until you master the basics+ waveshine. Most instances where you would Multishine you can try to do other shield pressure, but the rest and waveshining are super important.
tsmfoxmaster
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I know L cancelling and waveshining are important, but what other techs should I master?
Archelon
Smash Journeyman
. For practising multishines, first work on "jumpshines" jump then B with the multishine timing. This is to make it easier to learn future steps. I strongly recommend NOT doing shine-jump-shine at first, but rather the "jumpshines" I've described (I originally learned this from Westballz saying it).
. Once you can do that consistently, you should start doing Shine-Jump-Shine-Jump. It is important to do the jump after because you'll aways want to jump out of multishines, whether to do a wavehine or more multishines or a JC grab after, and I found that for me it was hard to learn to not just sit in shine after the second shine. After you get this, start doing wavedashes, JC grabs etc. out of the doubleshines, not just the jump.
. After this, move on to doing more and more multishines!
. For side-B shortens, you can't really practise them badly, my only advice is:
-Practise them on the ground, because it is the same timing but this stops you from getting your timing for the second B press from a jump you might potentially do to get in the air.
-If you want to sort of give yourself a situation where there's a bit of "pressure", you can stand facing the edge so that if you miss a shorten you'll SD (like I mean in practise).
-Try also putting yourself in a situation where you would use a shorten, like a bit above the edge but pretty close to the stage and do it from there. If you have 20XX, you can use the save/ load state to do it repeatedly, without have to jump off stage (which could potentially lead to the timing coming off the jump like I said earlier).
P.S. I seriously recommend considering using claw. I do, and it only takes a few hours to get used to it, and if you haven't practised too much tech yet with fox you really aren't losing anything. It makes it way easier to Multishine/ Waveshine and IMO short hop, but that isn't really a problem for most people. I'm pretty sure it is also healtier for your hands and wrists, and definately for you thumb.
For my right hand I use thumb for A, B and C-Stick, Index for Y, Middle for R, and Ring for Z. Some people use middle for R and Z, but I find it really hard to do, so I guess you should do whichever you like better. One final note is to keep your pinky straight. It will naturally want to curl up, but I found this made it really hurt after for a while, so it's important to remember to keep it straight. It becomes automatic after a while. I think it might come from that at first when you use claw it feels like you don't have a firm enough grip on your controller.
Hope this helps as well, good luck!
. Once you can do that consistently, you should start doing Shine-Jump-Shine-Jump. It is important to do the jump after because you'll aways want to jump out of multishines, whether to do a wavehine or more multishines or a JC grab after, and I found that for me it was hard to learn to not just sit in shine after the second shine. After you get this, start doing wavedashes, JC grabs etc. out of the doubleshines, not just the jump.
. After this, move on to doing more and more multishines!
. For side-B shortens, you can't really practise them badly, my only advice is:
-Practise them on the ground, because it is the same timing but this stops you from getting your timing for the second B press from a jump you might potentially do to get in the air.
-If you want to sort of give yourself a situation where there's a bit of "pressure", you can stand facing the edge so that if you miss a shorten you'll SD (like I mean in practise).
-Try also putting yourself in a situation where you would use a shorten, like a bit above the edge but pretty close to the stage and do it from there. If you have 20XX, you can use the save/ load state to do it repeatedly, without have to jump off stage (which could potentially lead to the timing coming off the jump like I said earlier).
P.S. I seriously recommend considering using claw. I do, and it only takes a few hours to get used to it, and if you haven't practised too much tech yet with fox you really aren't losing anything. It makes it way easier to Multishine/ Waveshine and IMO short hop, but that isn't really a problem for most people. I'm pretty sure it is also healtier for your hands and wrists, and definately for you thumb.
For my right hand I use thumb for A, B and C-Stick, Index for Y, Middle for R, and Ring for Z. Some people use middle for R and Z, but I find it really hard to do, so I guess you should do whichever you like better. One final note is to keep your pinky straight. It will naturally want to curl up, but I found this made it really hurt after for a while, so it's important to remember to keep it straight. It becomes automatic after a while. I think it might come from that at first when you use claw it feels like you don't have a firm enough grip on your controller.
Hope this helps as well, good luck!
tsmfoxmaster
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Thanks for the info man!
Archelon
Smash Journeyman
No problem.
Michelangelo
Smash Cadet
i think multishining is only something you should start practicing after you've really learned and fully control all the basic and more adavanced stuff like L cancelling, wavedashing, waveshining, dash dancing, wavelanding, shine aerials and comboing. All of that should be on point before you move on to the hard stuff. Most people who are new want to learn all the cool flashy sutff first but that's not how you should begin if you want to get good.
I don't think claw will make a big difference. It totaly depends on what you prefer. You probably hold the controller how everybody does and i think you should keep it like that since you already learned things like that adn it's also just feels better imo, but if you prefer claw that's fine.
tsmfoxmaster
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Appreciate the info
Michelangelo
Michelangelo
Scrubloard69
Smash Rookie
Really if your just learning just double shield instead of multishining but learn this after everything.
Ideally learn...
Short hopping, L canceling, Dash dance (well, not braindead), HOW TO NAIR, grab combos, Fast ways to grab the ledge with your character, Wave dashing, How to edge guard, Wavedash out of shield - Wave shine (learn these together as many punished out of shield includes wave shining) Ledge dashing, shine grab, Double shine, Multi shine (if you want this is very unnecessary tech).
MOST IMPORTANT - understand why these techniques are good and when to use them. I have a friend that has played for 2 years and knows about every advanced tech but he sucks. because he just uses all of them in dumb ways and gets punished for it.
Also try just to learn 1 character until you are at the level of a top 200 player. This is because mastering 1 character is hard enough but mastering two while trying to figure out all the basics will hinder your progress a ton.
Hoped all this helped. Any questions just ask me
Ideally learn...
Short hopping, L canceling, Dash dance (well, not braindead), HOW TO NAIR, grab combos, Fast ways to grab the ledge with your character, Wave dashing, How to edge guard, Wavedash out of shield - Wave shine (learn these together as many punished out of shield includes wave shining) Ledge dashing, shine grab, Double shine, Multi shine (if you want this is very unnecessary tech).
MOST IMPORTANT - understand why these techniques are good and when to use them. I have a friend that has played for 2 years and knows about every advanced tech but he sucks. because he just uses all of them in dumb ways and gets punished for it.
Also try just to learn 1 character until you are at the level of a top 200 player. This is because mastering 1 character is hard enough but mastering two while trying to figure out all the basics will hinder your progress a ton.
Hoped all this helped. Any questions just ask me
tsm2k420XX
Smash Cadet
The most important part of playing a character is movement imo. Work on different platform movements, and be creative with them, it will pay dividends
tsmfoxmaster
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How do you practice wavelands and get better with movement on platforms?
The 20XX hackpack helps alot at improving your platform movement- Play on different Target-Test-Stages with Fox (Ice Climbers are fantastic for that) or play on the "jump up a ton of platforms before the time runs out" Stage from adventure mode.
If that's not an option for you, try to practice equally on every Platform Stage and just rinse and repeat.
I played a lot of little self-made minigames, like.. try to go from platform to platform withouth touching the ground (or the top platform) as often as you can in one minute.
Also - See that you act as soon as you can once you landed on a platform - you don't wanna waste those precious frames!
There really isn't a secret to learning wavelands and platform movement - the inputs aren't that hard, it basically comes down to just practice.
If that's not an option for you, try to practice equally on every Platform Stage and just rinse and repeat.
I played a lot of little self-made minigames, like.. try to go from platform to platform withouth touching the ground (or the top platform) as often as you can in one minute.
Also - See that you act as soon as you can once you landed on a platform - you don't wanna waste those precious frames!
There really isn't a secret to learning wavelands and platform movement - the inputs aren't that hard, it basically comes down to just practice.
Archelon
Smash Journeyman
Just spend a while doing it in training.
tsmfoxmaster
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How long does it take to master short hop. I don't have 20xx yet I'm just curious?
Archelon
Smash Journeyman
With claw... after 15 mins I could do it pretty consistently, perfection came after playing for a while.
tsmfoxmaster
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Wolfgang Cooper
Smash Ace
I recommend first mastering short hopping, what i do is I barley flick the X button so i dont full hop. after that try using aerial attacks with the short hop. After that just learn how to fast fall L cancel. It may take a while to get down but after you do, you will be DEADLY. Practice makes perfect so GET TO IT!!
tsmfoxmaster
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Great post
Wolfgang Cooper
i short hop with y and L cancel with R.
Wolfgang Cooper
i short hop with y and L cancel with R.
Wolfgang Cooper
Smash Ace
I used to use y to short hop but i found that i would full hop in the heat of a battle so i just flick x. Whats wierd though is that i use y to waveshine. :I Have you played in any tourneys?Great post
tsmfoxmaster
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Yes I play a weekly every thursday and I play smash fests every month.
Wolfgang Cooper
Smash Ace
Cool, I still haven't played in a tourney. There's never one near my city and I can't afford to travel. At least I can play against lvl 9 CPUs all day! =I
tsmfoxmaster
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Where are you located? And level 9 computers are nothing like human players. I would practice with level 3 computers they have random di and good to practice combos.
Wolfgang Cooper
Smash Ace
I live in California, long Beach. Also I was just kidding about the CPUs lol. I mean I fight my bros but they are to easy for me.But when I do practice with CPUs I put them on 6 because any higher and they would do the most inhuman things evar! They would challenge mah Nair with a grab and they would get me. I desperately need to fight other s
killed players ASAP!!!
tsmfoxmaster
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Cool man
Wolfgang Cooper
Smash Ace
Ay, I actually just made a Fox guide. You think you can read it and tell me what you think. P.s it's my first guide so it may not be the best.
tsmfoxmaster
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Good guide man
Wolfgang Cooper
Smash Ace
Aw shucks man. Quit making me blush. For real though, thanks.
tsmfoxmaster
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No problem man.
Last edited:
tsmfoxmaster
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I got one question. I don't have 20xx yet but I know I should practice short hop and L cancelling. But should i practice shine nair and drill shine also?
Wolfgang Cooper
Smash Ace
Of course dude. But i think you should perfect SHFFL'ing first. Perfecting that would make shining after an aerial so much easier. Remember that there are different options when you L Cancel. For example. try grabbing or up-smashing after you l cancel. Or you can Nair, L Cancel, and go for another Nair, L cancel. Or a Dair, L Cancel into grab. When i first started i used to just shine after my l cancels without knowing how waveshine, which is SO important later in your training. Practice different options
Again, this is just advice, I recommended finding your own personal training schedule that suits you. I tried to follow some other guy's schedule and was all confused. So i just practiced in the lab for days and days by myself and am happy to say that i have mained Fox. Also finding your own play Style is better than just trying to copy someone else's style, like i used to do. Also, Im not saying to not listen to other's tips, those are what helped me learn how to play fox. Im saying take them into consideration, but make them into your own craft and style. I recommend looking up videos on how to waveshine or any other tech you are struggling with. They will help you in the long run.
Please, if you have any questions, tell me and ill be sure to answer them. Also tell me when you perfected SHFFL into shine so i can help you into the next step.
Again, this is just advice, I recommended finding your own personal training schedule that suits you. I tried to follow some other guy's schedule and was all confused. So i just practiced in the lab for days and days by myself and am happy to say that i have mained Fox. Also finding your own play Style is better than just trying to copy someone else's style, like i used to do. Also, Im not saying to not listen to other's tips, those are what helped me learn how to play fox. Im saying take them into consideration, but make them into your own craft and style. I recommend looking up videos on how to waveshine or any other tech you are struggling with. They will help you in the long run.
Please, if you have any questions, tell me and ill be sure to answer them. Also tell me when you perfected SHFFL into shine so i can help you into the next step.
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Wolfgang Cooper
Smash Ace
Also to practice L cancels, try this, go to versus mode. choose bowser as your opponent and put on handicap and set the DAMAGE RATIO to 0.5. Set Bowser to LEVEL 1 and but his handicap to 9. Then choose Final Destination. Bowser will take more damage without flying away, so this is great to preactice L Canceled Aerials into shine muscle memory. Or aerial into whatever attack you think of next.