Been having trouble against Yoshis lately, what and how do you punish?

[Colin Steele]

I play a lot of 4G and as you probably all well know, Yoshis are running rampant. I feel like he's an incredibly powerful character with what seems like little to no startup or recovery on most of his moves. Generally I find it easy to catch an opponent as they are trying to land on stage, but Yoshis is a different story - most of his aerials are too good for me to contest. His dash attack generally goes right past my shield, keeping me from grabbing him afterwards. At mid-range he's able to just spam eggs at me and then punish me for approaching.

I'm not complaining, in fact it's rare that I'm not at least able to get a stock off of the opponent, but I still would like to sharpen my skills and learn to deal with this character like I have the infamous

For the record I play most of the characters in the picture below, as well as Wario, Olimar, and D3.

 

[chipndip]

Ok, so here's the thing based on what I can give you:

1) You should use Shiek or Rosa + Luma against any confirmed Yoshi player. Maybe Villager, but I recommend the former.

2) Yoshi IS a strong character, but For Glory scrubs are bad players. Here's what you should look for:

-Punish EVERY Yoshi Bomb with a DACUS (dash attack canceled u-smash). Every. Single. One. Time it so you don't get hit by the star. They're gonna do it quite a few times from up high. Keep punishing it until they stop. They also might return to the ground with d-air. Just avoid being directly below him after he's had breathing room to time a bomb or a d-air. You really shouldn't be using d-air like that, but some Yoshi players do because they love that 33%. You can pressure from below so long as you have a good u-air or he hasn't started one of those two moves.

-Respect him when he's below you. This is for any char, but him and a few others especially. Rosalina has at least some options in her d-air, but in general, you want to get to the ground safe as possible. He can't rack up u-air damage if you move even a small bit to the sides, so throw off his aim and get moving.

-He can eat you. If he's camping while you're at 100+ percent, he's probably trying to land a scrubby Egg Lay. If you get eaten, focus on returning to the stage BEFORE focusing on breaking free unless it's clear that you're going to (not) fall. It's possible for them to air chase and then eat you while you're recovering, but the only person I've seen put that into practice is myself, so I'm not sure if that's something to worry about.

-Most scrubby Yoshi players don't play into his entire kit. They either over-rely on d-air, Yoshi Bomb, or whatever else. Use these holes in their game plan to your advantage by exploiting the weaknesses of the move they over-rely on. This depends on the guy in question, but Yoshi's moves all have strong properties...and a weird, glaring flaw. It's hard to explain, but long story short is that if you crutch on one aspect of this character, Yoshi won't carry you that far at all. He's strong when you use a good deal of his kit's strengths in tandem while covering his openings and weak spots with his mobility (another strength of his).

-Lastly: Be wary of his f-air while recovering. It's the fastest f-air meteor smash out of the 3 (DK, Mario, n' Yoshi), and it can hit through small projectiles with pro timing. The meteor effect always occurs so long as the hit-box hits you from above, and a good Yoshi's gonna try to line the hit up and land it rather quickly. Not sure about bad ones, though.

 

[Colin Steele]

Dude, first of all, thank you a bunch for putting the effort into writing this monumentally useful response. Mad props.

Secondly, and more importantly, do you have any advice on his dash attack? It's so safe, he either hits you with it and immediately begins humiliating you, or he just goes right through your sheild and then turns around for what feels like an immediate tilt. Is there a most effective tactic available for dealing with this? I.E. timing a reverse grab?

 

[Slice~]

Rosaluma and Villager are a pain in the ass.

Luckily, there are hardly any good Murabitos at this time.
I know only one who is one of my locals.
The stuff he's pulling off is ridiculous.

I'm not that scared by Sheik though, she got problems killing us and thus enhancing our strenght with every percentage.

Edit: it's impossible to use this page mobile, this is cancer...

 

[chipndip]

Dude, first of all, thank you a bunch for putting the effort into writing this monumentally useful response. Mad props.

Secondly, and more importantly, do you have any advice on his dash attack? It's so safe, he either hits you with it and immediately begins humiliating you, or he just goes right through your sheild and then turns around for what feels like an immediate tilt. Is there a most effective tactic available for dealing with this? I.E. timing a reverse grab?

1) No problem.

2) His dash attack...I should have put that in the first post. It's practically his strongest asset. Some thoughts:

a) It doesn't KO well at all, so you're safe from that at least.

b) It depends on when he does it, but it's not actually "safe". You can retaliate, but where he ends up is based on how close he was to you when he launched it. From far away, he's gonna stay in front, and from up close, it's gonna cross over. The one that crosses over is harder to punish, but they both aren't actually safe.

c) At earlier percents, you can get juggled by that move quite hard. Be careful of Yoshi users popping you up with his dash attack and heading into u-air strings. When they get to moderately high percents near the ledge, I personally flutter jump to them and try to meteor smash them, but, once again, I don't see that often from bad Yoshis.

Just block and punish it for the most part. Also, for his egg throws, try to shield it and move in. Perfect shield preferred, of course.

 

[Colin Steele]

Rosaluma and Villager are a pain in the ***.

Luckily, there are hardly any good Murabitos at this time.
I know only one who is one of my locals.
The stuff he's pulling off is ridiculous.

I'm not that scared by Sheik though, she got problems killing us and thus enhancing our strenght with every percentage.

Edit: it's impossible to use this page mobile, this is cancer...

Sheik's greatest weakness is in her player. If you don't have the constitution to remain disciplined and stay focused, the kills will never come. Sheik may be a top-tier character, but so is Yoshi (imo) so I see what you're saying. I honestly wish I were better at Killager, but he takes a lot to be truly good at.

1) No problem.

2) His dash attack...I should have put that in the first post. It's practically his strongest asset. Some thoughts:

a) It doesn't KO well at all, so you're safe from that at least.

b) It depends on when he does it, but it's not actually "safe". You can retaliate, but where he ends up is based on how close he was to you when he launched it. From far away, he's gonna stay in front, and from up close, it's gonna cross over. The one that crosses over is harder to punish, but they both aren't actually safe.

c) At earlier percents, you can get juggled by that move quite hard. Be careful of Yoshi users popping you up with his dash attack and heading into u-air strings. When they get to moderately high percents near the ledge, I personally flutter jump to them and try to meteor smash them, but, once again, I don't see that often from bad Yoshis.

Just block and punish it for the most part. Also, for his egg throws, try to shield it and move in. Perfect shield preferred, of course.

It's really more of a matter of what leads into his dash attack that I have trouble with. I feel as though I'm vulnerable to it almost constantly. Perhaps if I just keep a safer distance from him when landing, which is when I feel is probably the best time for him to use it, I can avoid it more.

 

[Colin Steele]

I think this character is overpowered.

 

[Golden Sun]

I think this character is overpowered.

let me guess, the Yoshi's you go against are black colored ones.

 

[Arbitation]

You can definitely grab Yoshi in between hits of his bair. I have been working a lot on spacing that move since I've started playing at tournaments (against people who actually know how to correctly punish his bair). Don't let him free roll this move. If you haven't been poked too hard you can grab out of a fully shielded dair.

It's safe to say you should be beating any Yoshi who uses their down-b recklessly. It's a free <move> if you see it coming. I can only speak for myself but I consider it every time I'm returning to stage, but equally, I expect my opponent to respect it.

You can grab most shielded short hop fair approach.

My advice for playing around nair and uair is just that, try to play around it because a lot of uair approaches will be with armor, and fair is difficult to contest due to its speed, knockback and just how non-committal it is (nair is just crazy good). I'm pretty sure Yoshi has average priority (I've no data on this, just experience) so there's probably a weakness there in his air game, for example Ness and his fair are really annoying to play against as Yoshi.

 

[Shack]

Ok, so here's the thing based on what I can give you:

1) You should use Shiek or Rosa + Luma against any confirmed Yoshi player. Maybe Villager, but I recommend the former.

2) Yoshi IS a strong character, but For Glory scrubs are bad players. Here's what you should look for:

-Punish EVERY Yoshi Bomb with a DACUS (dash attack canceled u-smash). Every. Single. One. Time it so you don't get hit by the star. They're gonna do it quite a few times from up high. Keep punishing it until they stop. They also might return to the ground with d-air. Just avoid being directly below him after he's had breathing room to time a bomb or a d-air. You really shouldn't be using d-air like that, but some Yoshi players do because they love that 33%. You can pressure from below so long as you have a good u-air or he hasn't started one of those two moves.

-Respect him when he's below you. This is for any char, but him and a few others especially. Rosalina has at least some options in her d-air, but in general, you want to get to the ground safe as possible. He can't rack up u-air damage if you move even a small bit to the sides, so throw off his aim and get moving.

-He can eat you. If he's camping while you're at 100+ percent, he's probably trying to land a scrubby Egg Lay. If you get eaten, focus on returning to the stage BEFORE focusing on breaking free unless it's clear that you're going to (not) fall. It's possible for them to air chase and then eat you while you're recovering, but the only person I've seen put that into practice is myself, so I'm not sure if that's something to worry about.

-Most scrubby Yoshi players don't play into his entire kit. They either over-rely on d-air, Yoshi Bomb, or whatever else. Use these holes in their game plan to your advantage by exploiting the weaknesses of the move they over-rely on. This depends on the guy in question, but Yoshi's moves all have strong properties...and a weird, glaring flaw. It's hard to explain, but long story short is that if you crutch on one aspect of this character, Yoshi won't carry you that far at all. He's strong when you use a good deal of his kit's strengths in tandem while covering his openings and weak spots with his mobility (another strength of his).

-Lastly: Be wary of his f-air while recovering. It's the fastest f-air meteor smash out of the 3 (DK, Mario, n' Yoshi), and it can hit through small projectiles with pro timing. The meteor effect always occurs so long as the hit-box hits you from above, and a good Yoshi's gonna try to line the hit up and land it rather quickly. Not sure about bad ones, though.

What about the damn eggs!? I can't get around them/punish them

 

[Shiri]

Some characters can't punish them. Getting around them is extremely basic, however.

Walk up and block
Walk up and roll
Walk up and dodge
Advancing air dodge
Reflect them
Run away from them
Run under them
Destroy them with large or disjointed hitboxes

Almost every character can perform many of these actions. Apply yourself; it might not always be easy depending on the situation, but these are the elementary ways to get around almost any projectile.

 

[Dalxp26]

Any advice for someone who uses Diddy Kong? Yoshi is just too fast for me

 

[Colin Steele]

Seeing the changes for this last patch makes me a little more comfortable in my previous statement, I think he was overpowered. Now perhaps not with increased lag, but I still think he's incredibly strong, and hopefully not imbalanced.