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Bay Area! WHADDYAKNOWABOUTIT

Vodage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
245
Location
San Francisco
In my humble opinion, our high buy-ins at tournaments are discouraging new players.

New players keep our scene alive.

I think we could use more smashfests, and less tournaments.

Either that, or we could use more tournament hosts who don't force new players to waste their money just to get double-eliminated within their first few matches.

Discuss.
 

Vodage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
245
Location
San Francisco
Some of our players are in high school. Some of them don't have jobs, and some of their parents don't give them allowance money. Your opinion, however, is appreciated. Also it's expensive as **** to live in the Bay Area. Stop taxing players who aren't leet yet. Alls I'm saying is you're alienating a whole group of people who are in it for the love of the game, and are fine playing friendlies until they improve their skills.

I mean, what helps a player improve? $5 out of their pocket (or $10 if they enter teams as well) for a few matches, or a bunch of friendlies with some of our top-ranking players?
 

SuperRad

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Messages
4,965
Location
San Francisco, CA [Sometimes Santa Cruz]
uhm

first off, ive gone to probably 30-40 tournaments for melee. and at 95% of those i went two and out. i am terrible at melee, but i love the game and i love the community.

if new players go and put down $5 and go two and out and want to quit, they were never going to cut it anyways.

also, many of these tournaments have no venue fee to just show up and play friendlies.

[plus, i was going to tournaments when i was in high school, i had a job so i could pay to do things i wanted to do like that.
 

typh

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 6, 2005
Messages
2,726
Location
eugene
new tournament rule: if you get 0-2d in brackets you get one friendly with a ranked player in which he will let you win, and if you get 0-2d in 3 tournaments in a row your next entrance is free
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
11,926
Location
San Francisco, CA
$5 is remarkably cheap for a tournament

on the EC, your standard tournament was $15

honestly, you just seem like a terrible person and i don't mind having never seen you at a tournament

maybe someday you'll prove me wrong, but not until you can afford 5 measly dollars
 

The___cheese

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 10, 2006
Messages
1,305
Location
San pablo
Some people's parents don't have any money lol. But If I can pay for the occasional tournament so can you lol.

I do agree the good players need to friendly people more. But that's up to them. So just ask them to if you wanna play and learn stuff.
 

joeplicate

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,842
Location
alameda, ca
it's called

you go to a tournament, you enter with your five dollars, and you stay warmed up and in a competitive mood all day

that way, you can get great friendlies in with great players

the biggest mistake that new players make is being too timid to ask people to play them
 

Shroomed

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
4,793
Location
Santa Cruz
news flash for vodage

a lot of ppl throw money at tournaments KNOWING full well they're not gonna win any money at all

u kinda need to stop complaining about tournament prices, when u can do what casey does

ask everyone for a dollar until 5 ppl say yes LOL

but really stop crying, ur the only one complaining i dont see any of the newer players saying anything
tournaments are also semi-smashfests

there's no sign on the door saying ENTER OR GTFO
 

Shroomed

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
4,793
Location
Santa Cruz
everytime i try to play jeff I or he has to go play a match tho

it's gay lol

I WANNA PLAY SUM FRIENDLIES WITH JEFF
 

MacD

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
6,891
Location
probably on a platform
switch with me next time in bracket shroomed, i've played him at my only two CGC's/recent nor cal tournies, if you count the one we came up with mango/lucky/tofu for
 

Rosedemon

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
2,760
You guys must just not be liked.

I dont think i've ever been rejected to play friendlies with Jeff. Or any good smashers.

Even got my matches with Mango in.

Oh.

HAHA POOR PEOPLE! SUCK IT!
 

Vodage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
245
Location
San Francisco
uhm

first off, ive gone to probably 30-40 tournaments for melee. and at 95% of those i went two and out. i am terrible at melee, but i love the game and i love the community.

if new players go and put down $5 and go two and out and want to quit, they were never going to cut it anyways.

also, many of these tournaments have no venue fee to just show up and play friendlies.

[plus, i was going to tournaments when i was in high school, i had a job so i could pay to do things i wanted to do like that.
Well Quak doesn't let people show up and just play friendlies. I brought a cube and he made me enter anyway. He said that me bringing my cube only was a convinience for Phil, b/c he didn't have to bring his.

new tournament rule: if you get 0-2d in brackets you get one friendly with a ranked player in which he will let you win, and if you get 0-2d in 3 tournaments in a row your next entrance is free
Ranked players sandbagging newbs will not help anyone. Other than that, good ideas.

news flash for vodage

a lot of ppl throw money at tournaments KNOWING full well they're not gonna win any money at all

u kinda need to stop complaining about tournament prices, when u can do what casey does

ask everyone for a dollar until 5 ppl say yes LOL

but really stop crying, ur the only one complaining i dont see any of the newer players saying anything
tournaments are also semi-smashfests

there's no sign on the door saying ENTER OR GTFO
Quakfests do indeed go by the ENTER OR GTFO policy. Where are the tournaments I don't have to enter?

Newsflash for shroomed: Newer players don't say anything because they're intimidated by all of you, and don't want to start ****. I don't give a **** if I start ****, because that's just what I do.

Also asking everyone for 1 dollar is lame. I would ask 1 person for 1 dollar, and then moneymatch someone else for a dollar, until I had enough money to enter. If i can't make enough money to enter off $1 moneymatches, I am wasting space on the bracket.
 

Vodage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
245
Location
San Francisco
just played 2 hrs of friendlies with jeff today, hahahohohehe
Play some friendlies with me. Jeff/Tang/Rey won't train with me, even though we all live in San Francisco. I mean if you think about it we could form a badass City of SF crew, but they'd have to be willing to practice with some newbs and NOT SANDBAG.

Exception: Jeff can sandbag because all CF mains sandbag.

Just like how all Luigi mains get absurdly lucky misfires.
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
11,926
Location
San Francisco, CA
you mean quak didn't want a freeloader IN HIS HOUSE? what a terrible person

also, shroomed is intimidating? haha

just get over it and ask people to play; what's the worst that can happen? i don't think anyone would think less of a 'newb' asking for friendlies because he wants to improve than a person crying on the boards that nobody wants to play him and wanting others to seek him out
 

HomeMadeWaffles

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
1,623
Location
Union City, CA
vodage

u should jus look for others in ur area to play with instead of specific ppl

plenty of ppl will be down to play in ur area jus ask them

or dont watch finals at a tourney

thats were u can get a bunch of friendlies

i mean 5$ isnt that bad, especially since u prolly spent more jus getting to a tournament

no worries tho, u got this
 

Vodage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
245
Location
San Francisco
Why do replies get their own titles? wtf

you mean quak didn't want a freeloader IN HIS HOUSE? what a terrible person

also, shroomed is intimidating? haha

just get over it and ask people to play; what's the worst that can happen? i don't think anyone would think less of a 'newb' asking for friendlies because he wants to improve than a person crying on the boards that nobody wants to play him and wanting others to seek him out
I'm not a freeloader. A freeloader doens't have a controller, a ride, or a gamecube.

I bring my controller, my gamecube, AND (most importantly) MY OWN FOOD AND WATER TO TOURNAMENTS. I don't freeload anything but the Kilowatt hours my GameCube sucks up during the tourney. Quak is too sensitive about 'freeloaders'. I think one too many people drank his sodas and now he's raging.

I didn't mean Shroomed SPECIFICALLY, I meant smashers in general. Like when you're new to the scene, and you don't know anyone's name, and all you hear is "DON'T DO IT, DON'T DO IT"-- it can be intimidating for some people. You get the feeling you have a lot to learn, so you don't want to speak up about things you think are stupid, Like charging someone to go 0-2.

Why do you think it took me so long to post this up? I was trying to be chill. Then I realized I was being taken advantage of. I bring a cube, and actually offer to bring a TV as well, I bring my own food, and my own controller, as well as an extra video cable (with an s-video plug), and I am told that I MUST enter a tournament even though I clearly belong nowhere near that insane ****ing bracket.

Quak wants money so that people are impressed with his player's pot. He knows he's not getting any of it, but he knows the big names will come out for the big win.

I'm not stupid, and I'm not making this **** up. I'd love to hear Quak's explanation again.

Dude Pocky, seriously *****, shut the **** up. You don't know what the **** you're talking about. I've seen Jeff on the bus numerous times, and every time, I ask him about practicing, and like when they practice, and like that sort of thing. Or like on the way back from a tournament on BART-- EVERY TIME I ask the SF smashers what's up with the training sessions. Am I weriding people out calling it "training" instead of "friendlies"?

Cuz srsly, no homo. I just want to compete. And if I am going to compete, I need to train with the best. So of course I'm going to be all up on the top 3 smashers in the city. Those are the people who are going to be the most challenging, and thus, I will learn more playing agasint them than I will playing against some random fool who plays brawl but still has a Melee copy like under a pile of other bull**** on his floor.

Does that make sense, Pocky? Does ANYTHING I say make sense to you? Cuz I get the feeling we're on completely different wavelengths here.
 

pockyD

Smash Legend
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
11,926
Location
San Francisco, CA
i didn't really feel like doing this tonight but i will anyway because it feels like this is very important to you

I'm not a freeloader. A freeloader doens't have a controller, a ride, or a gamecube.
it was pretty clear that i meant freeloading off of QUAK, which is occupying the space he provides without compensating him

whether his policy is legit or not and whether or not i agree with it is irrelevant; i DO agree that his house, his rules, is a very valid system

I bring my controller, my gamecube, AND (most importantly) MY OWN FOOD AND WATER TO TOURNAMENTS. I don't freeload anything but the Kilowatt hours my GameCube sucks up during the tourney. Quak is too sensitive about 'freeloaders'. I think one too many people drank his sodas and now he's raging.
once again, his house, his rules

you want to make the rules? you host a tournament (seriously do it, people would show up :) )

I didn't mean Shroomed SPECIFICALLY, I meant smashers in general.
yeah that was just a joke... a failed one apparently. my bad

Like when you're new to the scene, and you don't know anyone's name, and all you hear is "DON'T DO IT, DON'T DO IT"-- it can be intimidating for some people. You get the feeling you have a lot to learn, so you don't want to speak up about things you think are stupid, Like charging someone to go 0-2.

Why do you think it took me so long to post this up? I was trying to be chill. Then I realized I was being taken advantage of. I bring a cube, and actually offer to bring a TV as well, I bring my own food, and my own controller, as well as an extra video cable (with an s-video plug), and I am told that I MUST enter a tournament even though I clearly belong nowhere near that insane ****ing bracket.
we were all new once, and we all got past it (some got further past it than others)

if someone is providing a venue, it's far from out of the question to ask you to pay a venue fee

nobody doesn't belong; the best way to learn is from failure!

Quak wants money so that people are impressed with his player's pot. He knows he's not getting any of it, but he knows the big names will come out for the big win.
that seems like a good way to get players to turn out. didn't mango and socal come up for a tournament that started at like 6 at night? i say great success

plus quak hasn't hosted a tournament in like 5 months, i dunno why you have this fascination with him

especially when there's a tournament series in SF (where your location says you are) that doesn't charge a venue fee and that almost everyone shows up to

I'm not stupid, and I'm not making this **** up. I'd love to hear Quak's explanation again.
there's nothing wrong with what he's doing

Dude Pocky, seriously *****, shut the **** up. You don't know what the **** you're talking about. I've seen Jeff on the bus numerous times, and every time, I ask him about practicing, and like when they practice, and like that sort of thing. Or like on the way back from a tournament on BART-- EVERY TIME I ask the SF smashers what's up with the training sessions. Am I weriding people out calling it "training" instead of "friendlies"?
maybe a little

Cuz srsly, no homo. I just want to compete. And if I am going to compete, I need to train with the best. So of course I'm going to be all up on the top 3 smashers in the city. Those are the people who are going to be the most challenging, and thus, I will learn more playing agasint them than I will playing against some random fool who plays brawl but still has a Melee copy like under a pile of other bull**** on his floor.
i don't know why that would be homo

anyways, i know that's what you want, but you have to consider what they want too

i have no idea about your skill level or even who you are as a person, but they have the right to do what they want with their time

Does that make sense, Pocky? Does ANYTHING I say make sense to you? Cuz I get the feeling we're on completely different wavelengths here.
it just feels like you have a false sense of entitlement

when i first moved here, it was up to ME to go to tournaments, play people, meet people, and set stuff up

when others see you put in effort, they're more likely to put in effort themselves... and when people 'know' you (i.e. if you just introduce yourself at tournament, play a lot of matches, etc), they are more likely to be willing to set time aside to play you out of tournament

if it matters, i will be moving to the city in a month or two, and i would be happy to play you

i only hope that i can meet your high standards of people you wish to play
 

Zoap

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
3,430
Location
California
news flash for vodage

a lot of ppl throw money at tournaments KNOWING full well they're not gonna win any money at all
Shroomed knows this from own experience :)

No but really Dajuan is always smiling, I don't see how someone could be intimidated by him.
 

Zoap

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
3,430
Location
California
also talking about people not playin with you, isnt exactly gonna make them want to jump all over it.
 

Vodage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
245
Location
San Francisco
U're right Zoap. We're getting off topic here; unfortunately I made it a little too obvious that I take this **** personally. I guess I'm the only person that feels this way about Smash tournaments? I understand the concept of venue fees, but IMO I should be covered if I"m bringing a setup.

I'm glad to hear what ppl think. Thanks for explaining all that stuff Pocky.

And the idea behind starting **** like this is to get people to be like "U know what, Vodage needs to shut the **** up, I think I'm going to school his newb *** on some SSBM until he cries and gives up and leaves the scene cuz he's annoying me"

It's just a hustle. I'm trying to call someone out so that they will want to play against me. It's a good way to get better. I do it on Diablo 2 Ladder as well. I find someone with a character, I call them out ("You will not pass me on ladder you ****ing newb"), and then they pass me on the ladder, and all of a sudden I have some decent competition.
 

joeplicate

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,842
Location
alameda, ca
Nah, I think you just got upset (which is fine, but whatever).

Also, from the way it sounds, you don't really need jeff/lunin to play you for some serious "competition"--just play anybody, really, as long as they're better than you (I'll be honest, I'm assuming that you're pretty bad) you can still learn a lot.
 

Vodage

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 9, 2008
Messages
245
Location
San Francisco
Yes I am pretty bad. I still miss SHFFLs and even some WDs every now and then. My DI is really good because I've been playing smash for years, but I didn't know ATs even existed. DI is like one of those things u can just figure out, though. No like-- I want to play vs the best so I know how far I have to go before I am also one of the best. I know that sounds like a lot of weird **** but okay check this out: If I get 4-stocked by someone who gets 4-stocked by someone else, how much am I learning from them? I don't want to learn how to play badly. I want to learn how to play well.
 

Shroomed

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
4,793
Location
Santa Cruz
From what I can remember about vodages skill lvl ur rite joe lol

But we all started bad

You don't start off playing with the best players vodage, u work ur way up

I got as good as I am pretty much playing ONLY my crewmates/friends A LOT
 

The Greater Leon

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
5,045
Location
socal, 805
youre over thinking it

no one really dislikes you

only online dislike, which doesnt count

i hate kouryuu online
<3
but like him irl

dont be crazy and dont be upset any more and just smash with anyone who will play with you

go to a tourney, find 5 bux on the ground or ask your mom?
 

joeplicate

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,842
Location
alameda, ca
it's like, if a noob is really motivated they might say something dumb like "man, I wish I could just play mango for 2 weeks straight!!!"

no, you probably won't learn anything, and you could get as much experience, if not more, from playing someone like larry or mike haze for the same amount of time
 

NyTeStRiDeR

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
87
Location
[S].[F].
Play some friendlies with me. Jeff/Tang/Rey won't train with me, even though we all live in San Francisco. I mean if you think about it we could form a badass City of SF crew, but they'd have to be willing to practice with some newbs and NOT SANDBAG.

Exception: Jeff can sandbag because all CF mains sandbag.

Just like how all Luigi mains get absurdly lucky misfires.
Tang, Jeff and I pretty much only play at tourneys. We usually either have school/work or other stuff, so whenever we do play, it isn't planned or anything, so it's just whatever. Rey is the only one that has smashfests or whatever.
 

MacD

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
6,891
Location
probably on a platform
just a little food for thought, my friend and i started at the same time, he introduced me to the boards, we only had each other play and practice against, it's how i learned the basics of the game like wavedashing and whatnot

from what you said about your tech skill, even playing someone not on jeff/tang's level will be a great help, all that's going to happen if you play people that great is get wrecked and not learn much anyway, like i can 0-death falco's who aren't that great and i feel that they can't learn much from that
 

Kheffin

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
16
Vodage said:
If I get 4-stocked by someone who gets 4-stocked by someone else, how much am I learning from them? I don't want to learn how to play badly. I want to learn how to play well.
You learn to stop doing stupid things that don't work, because if they don't work at that level, they almost certainly aren't going to work at the top level. Playing the best people isn't really any different from playing the tier 2 people when you're not at the top level; you're probably going to get wrecked.

Example time? i get 4 stocked (sometimes) by Zhu. I don't really feel I learn anything from these matches. I get 2-3 stocked by Joe. I remember what worked to take those two stocks, what didn't work, and start realizing that spamming nair as Marth at high-ish percents wildly doesn't work. Guess what? Nairing wildly doesn't work on Zhu either. I have learned to play better. Do it less, now I start taking more stock and getting closer to beating Joe. Getting better (for me) has been more about eliminating bad habits before you develop actual strategies against particular matchups. Certain bad habits that I in particular had were:
- Always rolling towards the center of the stage when pressured near the edge. You will get terribly, terribly ***** for this.
- Always returning from the edge with nair/fair. You will get shieldgrabbed and terribly, terribly *****.
- Forward smashing a lot at high percents. Guess what will happen.
How many of these things do you know about your gameplay? Because I guarantee top players will notice these immediately, and completely dominate you if you don't know them yourself.

And the only reason not to enter a tournament is if you feel you aren't playing at your best. And even that's probably a kinda shallow reason not to enter. Still, it's different if you lose because you're playing your best and you lose, versus if you feel like you lost because you're missing stuff you wouldn't normally miss...but if you have the drive to improve and to travel (because not gonna lie, I do not really have the motivation to travel), then you'll need to cough up the money. "Friendlies" will have people sandbagging in them all the time. But tourney...unless you're in the reaaaallly early stages, people tend to play seriously.

Play at a tournament, impress some people. Doesn't have to be the best...hell, you probably won't impress the best. You'll find some people who want to play with you like this. But playing bad people really does make you develop certain bad habits, especially if you only play them. I mean, the top players are usually willing to play a few matches with you, but bothering them all the time nonstop is ridiculous. What do they have to gain? Nothing. Yeah, we can talk about goodwill all you want, but they want to get better too. Playing significantly worse people makes you worse in 99% of cases.
 

joeplicate

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,842
Location
alameda, ca
omg I love you so much

vodage, take it from the best noob ever, kheffin
beat lunin spectra at his first tournament
 

Rosedemon

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
2,760
I want Mikey (Kouryuu) soooooo bad IRL.

Anywhos.

Look at me.

Went to tournys, didnt even enter singles, but I wasnt afraid to talk to folks. Most smashers look mean, but almost every smasher is nice if you approach them with some amount of respect. (Peter and Bobo mostly)

Just be yourself. Ask someone nicely if "you can get in on this rotation" and go to town (or get whooped).
 

Rosedemon

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
2,760
I remember the first time I talked to German.

I gave him my coke, but then I made it awkward by staring at him while he was about to drink it.

So he asked me if I had aids.

Good times yo.
 
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