Balance..and things of the like?

[Szion]

So, my friends and I have come a long way since discovering PM.

We've gone from the one guy saying Charizard's broken, to realizing that competitive play is more than just becoming good at a character..
it's the matchups...its like you need to learn everyone a little.

There's always a way. Smash makes u think, then rethink, then do something against those thoughts on occasion

We've also been told that doing free for alls is detrimental to our skill ceilings..

Uhm. I'm being told that fox and falco (and mewtwo apparently?) are in need of nerfs..additionally, alot of this game has anti-spacey characters, so i think that further points to spaceys being a problem. not saying i know it to be fact but its a pretty backed up statement.. I mean. my lucario can barely touch them..or combothem when i do...cuz crouch cancel..e.e

Am I justified in my frustration when I see fox or falco? I mean, the matchup with lucario seems pretty awful at low% unless i specialize in tech chasing alone, but past that, are fox and falco generally annoying characters to fight? I never realized how much i hated the two until I fought decent ones....They're so...safe x.x

 

[ECHOnce]

No, they're not "so safe." The reason why so many characters are considered anti-spacies characters are because they can easily 0-to-death them. So no, a cast filled with anti-spacey characters isn't implying that they're overpowered. Rather, it goes to show how effectively a good chunk of them win the MU fairly easily; spacies are at best high-ish tier in PM. If you're playing an anti-spacey, and you can't seem to get out of their pressure, then chances are you are either 1) not experienced enough in the MU yet, 2) you're simply being outplayed by someone beyond your skill level, or 3) a mix of both. I honestly don't know much about Lucario, so it could be a bad MU - ask the Lucario board for some advice/insight. But even if that's the case...given how many MUs you'll encounter in PM (as you brought up), it's to your own detriment to not have at least one or two secondaries as backups against your main's bad MUs. Besides M2, Pit, and maybe a few others, you can't really get away with not having at least a few bad MUs in the game, plus maybe some MUs that you personally just have a hard time with. Maybe some research and training into one of the anti-spacey characters could do you some good. Otherwise, learn how to abuse the spacies' weaknesses, and cover Lucario's own.

 

[PsionicSabreur]

Being 0-deathed actually has very little bearing on safety in neutral, and spacies are still the best when it comes to noncommittal stage control. Spacies are indeed frustrating for much of the cast (and, unlike a lot of other frustrating characters, aren't really poised to be adjusted in 3.5) and there's not much you can do about it aside from learning to win.

I'm not specifically familiar with Lucario's options against them, but understand that, when juggling at low % isn't possible, a lot of characters go into this matchup planning to take stocks by tech chasing until they can easily juggle into a KO move, or combo/carry offstage for an edgeguard. Get creative, but keep your punishes reliable, learning to confirm into grab/regrab is key (uthrow may be a good place to start, does it combo well at mid-low %?)

 

[Celestis]

I don't have much to say on this other then the Spacey's are so overrated. Have you ever fought a good Lucas or Sonic? Now there is a match-up to worry about.
And no character is "anti-Spacey' They are just a character super prone to combos. And I'm not sure where you get Safe from.

 

[Szion]

Im getting safe from the idea that they're the only character my lucario has trouble punishing. Perhaps it's simply lucario's matchup that makes them seem safe. It's likely that it's a lack of experience, given i know only two good spacey users (by good i mean the match either goes me winning by a stock, or losing by two, losing by 3, waveshining and nearly all other necessary forms of tech are properly applied and are beneficial in defeating me.), but within the time i've fought them i find that after wakeup's, be it a wakeup attack or neutral wakeup, they seem to be able to dodge almost instantly after, and I always get punished by a spot dodge for trying to punish their wakeups. Is their's special or something?


As for being anti spacey, that's just a term im borrowing from the higher up players i've met. Additionally, by being prone to combos, am I to assume that's a vertical thing with 'em? seeing as they fall fast, i figure up n down's must be hell for them....assuming they dont crouch cancel the first hit..