Bair and Smash Attack Opportunities

[Y-L]

I know my fundamentals with ice such as every option out of QD but the back air has such a small vertical range when are good times to use it? I find that I can't hit my opponent with back air if they're not in the air unless I wait long enough to where I'm vulnerable. Also with smash attacks when can you use though as well? (aside from usmash out of QD)

 

[Commander]

Fthrow>QD>Reverse Bair and Dthrow>Bair are both combos that do a great job of killing opponents but are DI dependent so mixing up your throws is important. Ike's uthrow chain grab on spacies combos into his fsmash at around 60%. It is disgusting and easily kills from the middle of FD. I learned the hard way that in Ike dittos, dair>fsmash is a combo. I don't know if it works on other characters yet. I haven't found opportunities for dsmash yet but I'm sure there are a lot of them with great pay offs.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

FSmash is a sick punish, but Ike has no truly reliable set-ups into it. It is certainly not a guarantee out of the chaingrab on spacies.

Bair, however, almost always is. On fastfaller or large characters, you can land a sweetspotted bair out of Uthrow at the lower percents (And on the spacies, even at mid percents after chaingrab - thank you, Fox.) Even if they DI in front, Ike hits a litte in front of him right at the start of the bair animation, which is an automatic sweetspot. It is also hilarious to see people completely screw up their DI when the bair sends them forwards. If you want a reference point for where bair hits in front, it's around shoulder height for Ike, similar to Roy's bair.

Try incorporating the Uthrow -> bair (dthrow -> Bair on floaties only). Magically, you'll start recognizing more and more opportunities to use bair in combat as it comes up. Even if you use it fairly often, it is fast, has huge horizontal range and relatively easy to space. It is a sick and rightfully oft-used move and Ike's combos flow into it pretty darn well.

Additionally, it seems like no matter what Wario DIs, he can never escape Dthrow -> Bair at low/mid percents. It can either be SHFFL'd or full-hopped but 9 times out of 10 I can hit him with it.

 

[Commander]

Damn it Lordling! Why do you always have to make me feel stupid? Are you sure uthrow(chain grab)>fsmash isn't guaranteed? It seemed pretty guaranteed when I was experimenting with it though I haven't had a chance to try it on people yet.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

Dude, nothing would make me happier than being able to Fsmash Falco out of a chaingrab, but proper DI towards the end of the CG gets you out of it. At the lower percents, FSmash takes too long and they reach the ground, techroll and punish your endlag. It may work once on an opponent unfamiliar with the match-up, or someone that plain screws up (so keep an eye out for it, I've gotten ridiculous things like a completely not-guaranteed FSmash on Pit out of a Dthrow) but it's punishing a grievous mistake, and not reliable at all.

Bair is MUCH more reliable because you can read the DI and put Ike at the proper height real quick. If you're close to the right edge, it could mean a dead spacie anyway, and more often than not lead to the edgeguard. You want to slay spacies, learn to powershield, pretend you're Falcon and cheese HARD for a grab and be able to do the Uthrow chain -> bair in your sleep. This is also why Dreamland is not a terrible pick against spacies: The fear of camping is real, but Wolf's mid-range projectile is sub-par for camping (it is more a zoning, or pressure tool: How do you deal with a slow-moving laser coming at you with a Wolf right behind it?) and you have that nice, open middle space to chaingrab. V/s Fox it's a mixed bag of "I can survive USmash longer" v/s "I am more prone to having Fox rack up laser damage" but that's why you work on your wavelands, platform game and just good mobility in general. You want to be a stock ahead and then turn into Ivy: Don't play Fox's game, don't try to rush him down as he tries to SHDL you into USmash percentage, just focus on weaving between those infernal red lines and keep your eyes peeled to punish any mistake or sloppy approach; focus on putting Ragnell between you and Fox, cheese for a grab like before, etc.

Woo, that was a lot of stuff to put into one post, huh?