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Azelf and Mesprit - The turning duo

9Kplus1

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
3,518
Location
Smogon (PM FC: 4256-7740-0627)
Ey Yo Pups (Houndoom) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hyper Beam
---
ScarfDoom makes an excellent starter. Surprising and taking out many other starters. Hyper Beam is just a filler option and acts as a sort of Explosion at times. This set is stopped by Heatran, however, it isn't a common lead to worry about.


NewBarkCity (Torterra) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 212 HP/252 Def/44 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Stone Edge
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
---
Yeah, it's still a wall breaker. Just so everyone knows, Ice Beam hasn't been really that common on Blissey lately and with that in mind, I can say that she still doesn't OHKO Torterra with it. It's still a wall breaker nontheless.


Cheif (Azelf) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- U-turn
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ground]
---
The first of the dynamic duo known as Cheif and Jeovanni. Psychic for obvious reasons and Hidden Power Ground is for Heatran and Lucario switch ins who tend to try to predict a Psychic coming.


Jeovanni (Mesprit) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/180 Def/76 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
---
The second of the Duo, Jeovanni. As being the bulkier of the two, it's Mespirt's job to take U-Turned hits and support with Thunder Wave. BoltBeam makes Mesprit easily a good counter for both Garchomp and Gyarados.


Big******* (Forretress) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/244 Def/12 SDef
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
---
Who couldn't guess its use ? Foretress setups, spins and ***** faster things who can bearly touch it.


Hello, My name is ChainChomp (Garchomp) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 190 HP/66 Atk/132 Spd/120 SDef
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Rest
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
---
After some EV adjusments, RestTalk Garchomp is ready for action. It can take Ice Beams and Hidden Power Ices from things it couldn't normally take it from. This includes Vaporeon, Gengar and Azelf. It hits a 404 HP leaving Blissey with a 5KO with Seismic Toss and a 3KO with Ice Beam.

Threat List:

Tyranitar- Garchomp scores a neat 2KO with Earthquake while Tyranitar 3KOs it with Crunch. Now, for Boah, it really isn't hard to break its Sub and Quake it into its grave. Since it can take an Ice Beam from the standard Vaporeon, it sure as hell can take an Ice Beam from the standard Boah.

Gyarados- As said, Mesprit delivers the pain with Thunderbolt. Torterra can do some decent damage to it with Leech Seed, Toxic and Stone Edge.

Infernape- Azelf can switch in on anything and hit back with a STAB Psychic. For the fools who run Sashes, Houndoom can pick them off easily.

Azelf- Mesprit can cripple it and do some damage with U-Turn. Houndoom can also do some major damage to it with a STAB Dark Pulse while being able to switch in on almost anything.

Rhyperior- Torterra can take whatever it tosses at it and Seed away its massive HP. Mesprit can also switch in easily and demolish Rhyperior with Ice Beam.

Electivire- It takes a combination of Azelf and Mesprit. Mesprit switches in easily, chips off its HP a bit with Ice beam, U-Turns out, and Azelf hits it with Psyshic.

Heracross- Foretress gets in and ***** the crap out of Heracross with Gyro Ball.

Salamence- Garchomp hits that magical number of 300 in its speed to outspeed all neutral nature base 100s. Dragon Claw won't OHKO without 2DDs under its belt. Garchomp usually switches in on predicted Flamethrowers and Fire Blasts.

Togekiss- This is Garchomp bait, right here. It gets wrecked by Dragon Claw. For HP Ice variants, Foretress, and Mesprit also get the job done.

Gengar- Garchomp absords sleep staus easily and has the chance to hit back with Dragon Claw. Houndoom can switch in on anything but Focus Blast and OHKO it with Dark Pulse.

Garchomp- Mesprit eats him up. Taking everything it tosses at her and htiing back with Ice Beam.

Lucario- As I've done recently, Azelf and Mesprit make for good counters.

Starmie- Mesprit cripples it easily and screws it over with Thunderbolt.

Weavile- Two words, Gyro Ball. Foretress gets in easily and Gyro Balls it down into oblivion.

Gallade- Garchomp, definately. It can absorb its Wisps and hit back hard with Earthquake. Mesprit can cripple it and switch to something that can finish it off.

Alakazam- Foretress can **** it with Gyro Ball. Mesprit can cripple it with Thunder Wave and U-Turn should do some considerable damage.

PorygonZ- Mesprit cripples it and takes it out with a few Ice Beams. Garchomp can outspeed Modest versions and hit back with Earthquake.

Staraptor- Foretress, again. Mesprit and Azelf both do some good damage to it.

Slowbro- Mesprit... wasn't it obvious ?

Machamp- Azelf can do a pretty good job for switching in and OHKOing it. If not, Garchomp can be a good counter for Non-Ice Punch versions.

Jolteon- Garchomp, Azelf and Houndoom seem to be able to switch in and take it out pretty easily.

Magnezone- Garchomp =_=...

Snorlax- Garchomp can sleep off ParaHax from Body Slam. Torterra seeds it and can poison it if needed. Snorlax's massive HP can provide excellent healing fodder for Torterra while Torterra itself takes lol damage from its attacks.

Zapdos- Hm, a tough cookie to get by. Houndoom can switch in and pick off weakened ones, however, Zapdos won't be making any trouble for my team, anyway.

Blissey- I haven't seen many around lately and when I do, Torterr a can just mooch off of that pink blob's HP. Even if it has Ice Beam, it won't OHKO Garchomp nor Torterra leaving Blissey has bait for both to come in and kill off.

Suicune- For none Ice Beam versions, Torterra handles it. Mespirt breaks it down by crippling it and hitting it with continuous Thunderbolts.

Sceptile- Mesprit and Azelf do the job just right. Azelf can switch in on practically anything and hit back with Flamethrower. Mesprit is the real counter as it hits it with Thunder Wave and picks it off with Ice Beam.

Breloom- Mesprit and Garchomp can beat its *** up and down the street.

Tangrowth- Houndoom, it's an easy kill. Mesprit only fears getting Seeded, other than that, Ice Beam should provide a kill.

Metagross- Garchomp, all it has to fear is the rare Ice Punch.

Heatran- Mesprit can take whatever it tosses at it, Cripple it and Bolt away.

Celebi- Torterra is immune to Leech Seed and has Toxic.

Jirachi- Garchomp seems to take anything it tries to throw at it. Houndoom can counter it if it doesn't get parahax'd on the switch in.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Deoxys-S @Life Orb
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 HP

Thunderpunch
Ice Punch
Superpower
Zen Headbutt

An excellent starter. Deixys wipes the smirk off of my opponent's faces when their lead is suddenly taken out by Deoxys.
With Intimidate starters being popular, along with everything naturally having more defense, I think you should run the same set in the OPPOSITE spectrum! Ice Beam, Psycho Boost/ Psychic, and Thunderbolt. Superpower is still useful for Blissey.

Garchomp @Leftovers
Adamant Nature
EVs: 224 HP / 252 SpD / 32 Atk

Earthquake
Dragon Claw
Rest
Sleep Talk

Why doesn't anyone look at Garchomp's defensive side ? Really, I think this set rarely appears. RestTalkChomp absorbs any status aimed at Deoxys, shrugs it off and attacks.

Intresting... I tried an Outrage/ SD restalk set at one point.

Foretress @Leftovers
Relaxed Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

Zap Cannon
Stealth Rock
Rapid Spin
Gyro Ball

Obivious ? My Stealth Rock and Spinner. Zap Cannon STILL scares Gyarados out.
Fine

Torterra @Leftovers
Impish Nature
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 Spe

Leech Seed
Substitute
Stone Edge
Toxic

My new mascot, **** Lopunny. Whenever Blissey tries to get her fatbutt in, Torterra is ready to plant his seed in Blissey (No, not like that). It's proven its worth as a wall breaker and thus is my new mascot.
Whateer you say

Mesprit @ Leftovers
Bold Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Atk

U-Turn
Thunder Wave
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt

The female of the duo. Mesprit clears a path for Azelf to get in on, U-Turns out and my plan can begin.

Azelf @ Life Orb
Naive Nature
EVs: 252 Spe / 244 SpA / 12 Atk

Fire Blast
U-Turn
Psychic
Hidden Power Ground

An all-out sweeper. Azelf can pretty much handle himself after Mesprit shakes my opponent's team up a bit. If things get too rough, Azelf U-Turn back to Mesprit so she can re-clear a path for sweeping.

In general, your team looks a bit pursuit weak. ScarfTar can cause problems with Crunch,a s would any STAB Dark move in general.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Thunderbolt is a OHKO, even after 6 Attack drops.

Tyranitar is pretty bulky, and can be EVed to take a superpower after an attack drop: not to metion that scarf weaviles will be the end. In general, your team is running a "quick win" type of feeling, but with the noticable amount of LO users, you'll quickly succumb to a stall team(which tend to use Celebi, nullifying Torterra, as would a Liquid ooze Tentacruel.
 

9Kplus1

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
3,518
Location
Smogon (PM FC: 4256-7740-0627)
Thunderbolt is a OHKO, even after 6 Attack drops.

Tyranitar is pretty bulky, and can be EVed to take a superpower after an attack drop: not to metion that scarf weaviles will be the end. In general, your team is running a "quick win" type of feeling, but with the noticable amount of LO users, you'll quickly succumb to a stall team(which tend to use Celebi, nullifying Torterra, as would a Liquid ooze Tentacruel.
Thank you, I finally get some advice for my team. Also, I just realized that I'm breaking the legend clause, so, what should I toss out Deoxys for? I was thinking a Metagross, then, I could make Foretress my lead. Also, Torterra has been doing prett well since I began using it. Most people say that they should've considered it as a threat before they started attacking.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Deoxys-e is perfectly OU, so I don't see why you would want to get rid of it. I highly suggest taking it away as your starter and putting it in the back while using this set:

Deoxys-s @ Life Orb/ Expert Belt
Pressure: Naive
136 Attack, 236 Speed, 136 Sp. Attack
Psycho Boost/ Psychic
Ice Beam
Superpower

He last move is largely filler, and should usually be made based on your team. I think the standard Thunderbolt is most appropriate, as it allows you to hit Gyarados that could sweep your team with a LOed Ice Fang/ Waterfall. Taunt isn't required: with an offensive spread, it can be highly aggravating. Forretress COULD stop it, but Zap Cannon's 50% accuracy is a major downer: I think you should still have it on there, as it can stop the same Gyarados from using Forretress as mere "set-up bait."

Tyranitar, as I've mentioned before, is a huge problem: I could see a Cursing version running through your team. However, it has to kill Torterra right AFTER it gets a Leech Seed down, otherwise it could be stalled out. An odd Curse/ Crunch/ Ice Beam/ Rest set would especially be troublesome.
Snorlax can also give problems, but then again Torterra can beat it 1-on-1.
You seem to have a problem taking special attacks: try using Light Screen on Forretress. Zap Cannon/ Spikes/ Rapid Spin/ Light Screen works VERY well from my experience. SR would work better on Mesprit over Thunderbolt, since Deoxys-e covers all Gyarados.
With all this set-up, you need something to run through the walls once everything is worn down: try Lucario @ Life Orb with Close Combat, SD, Extremespeed, and Bullet Punch, Max attack and Speed with a Jolly nature(to beat other Lucario simialr to this, as you'll have problems with them if they have Crunch for Mesprit.
Mesprit, speaking of which, could be the starter. Try to make it slower than BulkyDos so it can safely U-Turn over to Deoxys-e.
I really hoped this helped, and I hope this shows you how much I've grown since you've left. I can definately see a new maturity in your tone, at least =D
 

drcossack

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
608
Location
Scranton
Ey Yo Pups (Houndoom) (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Hyper Beam
---
ScarfDoom makes an excellent starter. Surprising and taking out many other starters. Hyper Beam is just a filler option and acts as a sort of Explosion at times. This set is stopped by Heatran, however, it isn't a common lead to worry about.


NewBarkCity (Torterra) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 212 HP/252 Def/44 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Stone Edge
- Leech Seed
- Toxic
---
Yeah, it's still a wall breaker. Just so everyone knows, Ice Beam hasn't been really that common on Blissey lately and with that in mind, I can say that she still doesn't OHKO Torterra with it. It's still a wall breaker nontheless.


Cheif (Azelf) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- U-turn
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power [Ground]
---
The first of the dynamic duo known as Cheif and Jeovanni. Psychic for obvious reasons and Hidden Power Ground is for Heatran and Lucario switch ins who tend to try to predict a Psychic coming.


Jeovanni (Mesprit) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/180 Def/76 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- U-turn
- Thunder Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
---
The second of the Duo, Jeovanni. As being the bulkier of the two, it's Mespirt's job to take U-Turned hits and support with Thunder Wave. BoltBeam makes Mesprit easily a good counter for both Garchomp and Gyarados.


Big******* (Forretress) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/244 Def/12 SDef
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Gyro Ball
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
---
Who couldn't guess its use ? Foretress setups, spins and ***** faster things who can bearly touch it.


Hello, My name is ChainChomp (Garchomp) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 190 HP/66 Atk/132 Spd/120 SDef
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Claw
- Rest
- Earthquake
- Sleep Talk
---
After some EV adjusments, RestTalk Garchomp is ready for action. It can take Ice Beams and Hidden Power Ices from things it couldn't normally take it from. This includes Vaporeon, Gengar and Azelf. It hits a 404 HP leaving Blissey with a 5KO with Seismic Toss and a 3KO with Ice Beam.
zomg, you're SuperAzelf? From our multiple battles, I HATE fighting you. Just out of curiosity, what's our win/loss record? I don't keep logs.

This team is really good.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Houndoom- I really like Houndoom, as he was my favorite pokemon back in Advance with Special Pursuit. Hyper Beam is almost never a good idea, as Fire Blast always does more damage. Even then, Dark Pulse does almost as much, has better coverage, and has a chance to Flinch. I would use Pursuit or Reversal as your last move. It depends what you hate more: Tyranitar + Weavile, or Azelf and Alakazam. I would suggest using a Hasty nature, as you need sp. Defense EVs to come in on Ice Beams and such, where-as your not coming in on CB Crunches anytime soon. Hasty makes sure you outspeed adamant ScarfChomps.

Torterra- I don't have any arguments with it, but watch for Blissey running Modest with 252 Sp. Attack EVs(273) to OHKO Garchomps with Ice Beam.

Azelf-I think Explosion is viable on a LO Azelf set. I would use it over HP Ground, as you already hit Lucario with Flamethrower and you can U-Turn over to Houndoom for a Flash Fire boost.

Mesprit- Fine

Forretress- Also fine

Garchomp- it's 401 HP that maks Blissey's seismic Toss a 5HKO. You could run Outrage over Dragon Claw, as then if you pick it up while sleep-talking, you aren't locked into it.
 

9Kplus1

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
3,518
Location
Smogon (PM FC: 4256-7740-0627)
I wouldn't really consider Explosion on Azelf over HP Ground since Houndoom is leading. My opponent will 90% of the time predict the obvious switch for the boost. As in a previous warstory, my opponent used Earth Power on Azelf instead of Fire Blast. Why? Because my opponent predicted the switch.
 

0RLY

A great conversation filler at bars and parties
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
2,681
Location
Temple University, Philadelphia
Houndoom really shouldn't have Hyper Beam, WoW, Counter, Toxic and some others may serve a better purpose on Houndoom. Also, try using HP (Grass) to get a hit on Sandstorm leads.

Torterra should really try to use another move other than Stone Edge. Something to hit steels with because they are invulnerable to Toxic.

Forretress might like more EV investments in sp.def because you only have physical walls on your team.
 
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