As ZSS, my neutral game is missing efficient use of down-smash.

[Tumultus]

Obviously, when used effectively, down-smash is a fantastic move. I'm having issues coming up with ways to safely (or at least mostly safely) use this move in the neutral game. There is so much mileage that you can get from down-smash, I'm confident that learning to use this tool in a better way will improve my game tremendously. I feel like even when I space this move as nicely as I can, I still get punished by certain characters.

Right now my use of this move is relegated to reading ledge get ups. I've seen Nairo do things like jab 1->down smash, not sure if he was messing around or trying to come up with some kind of spot dodge read?

Catching landings through down-smash frame traps could be good. Perhaps a grounded up-air approach -> prop them up -> bait air dodge -> down-smash?

I've mostly been a Samus main, so some advice from more seasoned ZSS people would be cool. I've brought my ZSS out in tournament lately and seen some really positive results. Would definitely like to optimize my play with her. What are some ways you down-smash with her effectively?

 

[Wyles]

Shield pressure, perfect pivot dsmash, and roll reads/spotdodge reads. It's worth noting if you have them backed to the ledge getting a dsmash at around 40-80% could mean getting their stock as well.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Softreads is probably the easiest way.
The good thing about dSmash is that if someone sits in shield and you suspect him to roll, you won't get punished for throwing out the dSmash and not getting the read.

I still try to get the dSmash on ledgegrab (the one frame thingy) and it works about 1 in 7.
I'm super surprised every time I get it tho so I tend to **** up the followup though lol

 

[Astellius]

I'm curious to see what people provide on this, because I personally just don't really use the move in 1v1. I miss with it too much, and, while I think it has potential, I mostly developed my skills around all of her other abilities.

I find it much more useful in multiplayer or team battles.

 

[Muffin!]

Honestly I think it depends a lot on who I'm playing, both the character and the player. I find that in some matches it's essential, in others it's useless. I agree with what Tobi said about soft reads. It's really the only safe way to use it. Throw it out if you think they might dash attack or dash grab.
I've noticed I tend to use it a lot against fox. Maybe that's just because foxes seem to love their dash attack.

 

[David Viran]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwa3PHWUL8A

Choco uses dsmash beautifully. Watch some choco. Also a thing about dsmash is if you are charging dsmash and your opponent is sitting in sheild it's a pretty good position to be in.

 

[Tumultus]

That was a great video, his use of d-smash is indeed beautiful. A couple of times during the set he runs and then down smashes in the opposite direction with seemingly no lag... How the heck is he doing that so quickly? Is this due to c-smashing (I have c-stick set to attack)

It seems like he's able to turn from a full run without any skid animation. It happens at approximately 4:51 for reference.

 

[David Viran]

TBH I have no idea how he does those turnaround dsmashes out of dash so fast.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

TBH I have no idea how he does those turnaround dsmashes out of dash so fast.

foxtrot turnaround dSmash

Input: dash, release left stick, wait for the dash to end, turn around, dSmash. The turn around part is honestly the hardest part but it's not that difficult.