Approaches with WFT?

[GoddessBracelet20]

Hello everyone, i haven't had the most time to play WFT or Sm4sh as much as i'd like. When I am able to get hits in I am just fine outside of getting my spikes down. My problem right now is approaching at all. I am completely read every time. Aft the moment, doing fake outs with pivot dashing is working into getting me hits but that is literally all I have. I would appreciate any advice on how I can improve. Thanks for reading.

 

[PurpleWeeaboo]

Sometimes you just gotta wait to counter-initiate when facing against faster characters (Shiek, Falcon, Mac, etc).

Un-charged sun salutation spam helps out in these scenarios, following it either into a dash>uair, or a jab>dtilt.

You can always ftilt as a replacement too. Comes out very quickly and also has kill potential.

Can't forget about nair though. Can follow up into a good amount of options afterwards.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

As WFT I only approach as a mix up and mostly let my oppomemts do the approaching. Her movement speed in the air and on the ground make her great at staying evasive. For the most part they should be coming to you.

 

[⑨ball]

Save some replays of you losing and rewatch your movement. If you know what you're going to do, not out of memory but out of habit or because it's apparently your best option out of a few you need to change that. Analyze those moments carefully and change what you feel doesn't work or is far to predictable.

 

[Niala]

I found my game improved very significantly once I started cancelling dashes with shield. A lot of her moves have very good coverage from shield-- jab alone covers the front and back of her, and grab, ftilt, and short hop aerials are all quite potent on top of that. It should be a staple to her approach game, especially against characters who can effectively wall her out from the air (Marth/Lucina, Puff, Robin, Shulk...)

 

[tofumon]

You have a few approach options depending on what your opponent tends to do as you approach. If your opponent likes to sit and wait and shield grab you, simply do a running grab. If your opponent likes to roll away from you, continue running and catch them at the end of their roll with a dash attack or a grab. If your opponent likes to roll towards you, hit them with a reverse f.tilt or reverse f.smash, or if you can read their roll really well you can stop running (you can also try using shield to stop running) and then d.smash. If your opponent likes jumping and air dodging away from you, you can catch them during the end lag of their air dodge or hit them as they're landing.

If you want to be super aggressive you can try crossing up with n.air or b.air. Basically what you do is run straight at him and then short hop over him and as you're landing throw out a n.air or b.air. You can spot dodge as you're ascending as well. This works well if your opponent is the type to wait and react to your approach because if you jump over him he'll be facing the wrong way to shield grab you. If he rolls backwards towards you your n.air might still catch him. If he rolls forwards away from you he won't be able to punish you and you can continue pressuring him.

 

[GoddessBracelet20]

Thank you so much for all of the advice guys. I feel as though I've been hitting this one roadblock that prevents me from becoming a stronger WFT player. I'll hit up training mode with my buddy and we will start practicing the distances I can hit f.tilts and b.airs on their rolls.

I'll definitely start harrassing with uncharged Sun Salutation as well.

 

[Fadacious]

Has anyone had any problems approaching Link?

 

[Steelsburg]

Thank you so much for all of the advice guys. I feel as though I've been hitting this one roadblock that prevents me from becoming a stronger WFT player. I'll hit up training mode with my buddy and we will start practicing the distances I can hit f.tilts and b.airs on their rolls.

I'll definitely start harrassing with uncharged Sun Salutation as well.

Try to use back air, and time it for the sweetspot. It can KO medium weight characters around 90% also, use side b (volleyball head butt) when recovering to throw them off or make them block. Jump off stage once and use deep breathing , it can be R canceled in air as well if you don't think you can make it back. Use up b and spam the b button to hula hoop faster and cover more distance. Also might I add, you can cancel out of the volley ball head butt, the head butt itself meteors at a diagonal angle

 

[KiteSC]

WFT is not slow. So shield canceling runs is not bad. Also, against some of the ****tier projectile characters, you can try zoning yourself. But approaching is mostly mindgame. Dont do the same thing every time. Or have a set pattern. Try missing up your zoning and aggressive play.

 

[GalaxyWaffles]

Believe it or not but crouch is good for approaching too. Obviously it depends on the matchup but I still find it to be a valid option

 

[G-Guy]

good thing about WFT is that charging up SS or Deep Breathing will make many people approach you instead. If not, spamming SS and header until you find an opening is a viable tactic. shooting header after ledge-shorthops makes you very hard to hit and gives the enemy some pressure, so that's a good thing.

SHFF Nair is a go to tool here, same with Bair. you can even stay in the air longer thanks to SH-side B, waiting for the perfect chance.

 

[Beethro]

yea im pretty new to wft but the vibe im getting is that most characters usually have to approach her instead. like what character is actually better off at full stage length than wft? off the top of my head zelda villager samus pit mii gunner? are all that are coming to mind, everyone else seems like theyd have to come to you.

like i was in a match against a toon link who refused to approach and only threw projectiles for almost the entire game and i just played the projectile war and won it because wft's projectiles are actually pretty well built for that strategy. the evasion on header and the charged sunsalutation that eats up unfullycharged arrows and boomerangs (and idr about bombs) and just the health sustain of spammed suns and free down-b's mean wft wins the stagelength projectile war against most. not that that should come into play much but the point is shes perfectly happy when she's across fd

i havent played much against midrange characters like zss, olimar, rosalina, mii gunner, etc so idk what to tell you about them

anyway im new to wft and mostly practice on fd smashville and town&city so the above stuff is a lot of theory.
but dash-> shield is a habit of mine and just letting you know that its not full proof, its readable and can get you grabbed or shieldbroken if you get predictable, especially vs marcinas/puff cause you know they love reading shields. definitely something ive had to try to correct lately. mix in some dodges or somethin keep em guessin

 

[Lil Puddin]

Has anyone had any problems approaching Link?

Everyone does. Since even good Links just space space space boomerang bomb arrow SMASH!!! RUUUUUUUUUUUUUN! Repeat. I thought PM 3.2 Zeldoo was The Troop Leader... But jeez, Link must really want to lead the camping trip.

Anyway, WFT has some very unusual approach options. Even though they are unusual people still know how to deal with them, so there's no element of surprise.

1) Crouching and moving. Yes. I'm serious. Her crouch makes her as short as Jigglypuff when crouching AND she can move. She can duck under attacks that don't touch the ground, such as Falcon's sideB, Mac's KO uppercut, or ZZS's dash attack. It's a good wait to bait them to coming at you too, and hit them with a nice Dtilt OR shield and go from there.

Note: Crouching makes sweetspots easier to land. You see a Din's Fire or Marth tipper coming your way? DON'T CROUCH. Just do not crouch. Never. Ever. EVER. Ok you get the point.

2) Dash dancing! Dash animation -> stop -> repeat. You will move faster, but in an unwieldy manner. If you space yourself just right, you can slam in a nice tilt or even smash attack. Normally if you fall short you can dash once more and pivot. If you over shoot it, you can short hop or pivot. Some characters can use this too, but WFT's slender figure when turned to the side and the animation isn't very easy to keep track of for some odd reason.

Note: this is the most reliable method until the opponent gets what you're doing. Eventually they'll become very defensive which isn't good for WFT.

3) Dash grab or dash attack... *sigh* Kind of. Barely. Maybe.

Note: It's there... It's not always effective. But it's still there.

4) Salute the hell out of the sun while moving forward. It acts as a gap closer and a baiter all at the same time. You can toss in a sideB too, but that actually leaves you more vulnerable than spamming B.

Note: This makes your special move stale, which isn't great if you want to use it as a finisher. It's a great finisher since people tend to become run-happy and shield-happy when they get to a high percent. SS tends to move at just the right pace to troll and catch people off guard when landing. You can even use it at point blank since it's ironically safer/more guaranteed to land than a smash attack.



WFT works better as a punisher. So you want to bait more than approach. If your opponent chooses to bait, you can catch them off guard by eating their bait. Then taking bites out of them instead of retreating after being hit one measly time. You could also just hit them with B or SideB until they get annoyed.

Protip: Charge up Sun Salutation. Then keep it. Opponents will shield a lot and try to stay above or below you while you have it charged. Doing so makes their intended paths and actions easier to read. Which WFT really needs, since WFT relies on solid reads to send them flying. So remember, SALUTE YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR - THE SUN! PRAY TO THE SUN WITH DEEP BREATHING. THE SUN DEMANDS SACRIFICES (and yoga parties). DON'T DISAPPOINT.

 

[lRasha]

I had to find this thread... I'm realizing that I might have an approach problem. Today I fought a Duck Hunt Dog and he just took me OUT. It was hard for me to approach him because of his projectiles. I want to practice the Nair crossup. I hope I don't leave myself open after the animation ends. Actually I just thought... maybe a fully charged SS goes through his frisbee. As he throws it, I can just throw a fully charged SS (FCSS? lol). Anyways, I know this thread is a few months old, but it's helpful. If anyone knows more approach options (since now it's June and maybe there's new discoveries), that would be great.

 

[Lil Puddin]

I had to find this thread... I'm realizing that I might have an approach problem. Today I fought a Duck Hunt Dog and he just took me OUT. It was hard for me to approach him because of his projectiles. I want to practice the Nair crossup. I hope I don't leave myself open after the animation ends. Actually I just thought... maybe a fully charged SS goes through his frisbee. As he throws it, I can just throw a fully charged SS (FCSS? lol). Anyways, I know this thread is a few months old, but it's helpful. If anyone knows more approach options (since now it's June and maybe there's new discoveries), that would be great.

WFT does poorly against outdoorsy kinds of characters, you know, the ones who love to hike, run track, or camp. WFT is mostly about punishing or catching, which is hard to do when someone is not even approaching you. Slow zoners/heavy neutrals, such as Zelda or Peach, are easier to handle because you can move faster/jump faster. Duck Hunt has enough speed and aerial presence to fend you off.

So basically, your only option is to either get in his face or use SS or throw balls at his face. WFT has a VERY good ledge game too, so you can ledge camp with header, charge off stage, and so on. Sure Duck Hunt is also good off stage, but header is very dangerous to approach offstage. Also, it means Duck Hunt will be closer to you instead of all the way across the stage.

Vulnerable moments:
When he summons a gunman
Whiffed aerials/dodges near the ground
Roll reading when you approach
Stupidly approaches you on the same horizontal level off stage (header!)

TL:DR Duck Hunt MU is in Duck Hunt's favor. You just have to be a more annoying camper than he is and force him into vulnerable situations. SS is good for getting to him or throwing the exploding can back at him, but chances are you'll make it stale after repeated usage so you're not killing him with it anytime soon.

 

[Fancykong]

Has anyone mentioned Header feints as an approach option yet? I actually catch people off guard a lot by using Cancelled Header, hitting the ball, and running behind it to bait a reaction from the opponent. Either you can dash attack the ball for a double hit, dash grab (*sigh* her range...) or lob a SS at them. It's a really useful mindgame against characters/players that like to hold shield from the other side of the stage, then suddenly rush in when they think it's safe.

ps. Just remember that the cancelled jab Header ball loses its hitbox unless you strike it again, hence the "Feint" part.

 

[Lil Puddin]

Has anyone mentioned Header feints as an approach option yet? I actually catch people off guard a lot by using Cancelled Header, hitting the ball, and running behind it to bait a reaction from the opponent. Either you can dash attack the ball for a double hit, dash grab (*sigh* her range...) or lob a SS at them. It's a really useful mindgame against characters/players that like to hold shield from the other side of the stage, then suddenly rush in when they think it's safe.

ps. Just remember that the cancelled jab Header ball loses its hitbox unless you strike it again, hence the "Feint" part.

I dabbled with it, but never really found it to be effective in my group. If the person knows it's coming, they will just run to the ledge or try some aerial shenanigans. Which both are bad for WFT because he/she is ironically bad/average when it comes to dealing with people on the ledge. He/she is also bad at fending off most aerial attacks since most characters have higher priority/speed or range. EX: Zelda's Nair, which is actually a small but constant hitbox, eats WFT and spits WFT out with ease.

I think in the heat of a real battle it'll actually work wonderfully. I play aggressive fighters IRL, but campers seem more prone to falling for feints. Mostly because a feint+fully charged SS damaging their shield forces them to attack you long enough to restore their shield. Basically keep you preoccupied. But they are usually unaware of how dangerous WFT is when you're in his/her yoga zone. Bruh, you don't wanna get in on this yoga class. Best step off.

 

[Fancykong]

Header Ftilt/Dtilt actually hits aerial opponents, so there's that. I usually use it specifically when the opponent ISN'T rushing me down , especially the ones that get tired of my projectiles and try to stay far away. In other words,

Regular Header against offensive opponents
Header Feint against overly defensive ones.

Addressing the ledge issue: did you know that if you have Tap Jump turned off, holding up during a run makes you stop faster? Use this for free Dtilts. Or if you're feeling especially mindgamey, you can do a double feint- that is, a header feint followed by a RTAC . If they're on the ledge, it could either spook them off and they eat a B reversed SS and if they stay on, the extra wait time means that they lose their invincibility and can eat a Dtilt or Bair stage spike.

I remember having a small dispute with TKbreezy about this (who believes it's useless), but I believe that great players can use EVERY move that they have to their fullest extent to win. Good players are just ones that use a move once, write it off if it doesn't work that one time, but wonder how to evolve the character's meta anyway. WE are the pioneers of her meta, and if we leave off options that we have with WFT now, it'll negatively affect us later on down the line when the meta is more clearly defined. Therefore, let us try everything out NOW, during its infancy. /rant


Ps. Deep Breathing is hilarious when you turn around and do the loooooooooooong version to bait the opponent to approach. You can just use jump cancelled Bair for free damage.

 

[⑨ball]

I had to find this thread... I'm realizing that I might have an approach problem. Today I fought a Duck Hunt Dog and he just took me OUT. It was hard for me to approach him because of his projectiles. I want to practice the Nair crossup. I hope I don't leave myself open after the animation ends. Actually I just thought... maybe a fully charged SS goes through his frisbee. As he throws it, I can just throw a fully charged SS (FCSS? lol). Anyways, I know this thread is a few months old, but it's helpful. If anyone knows more approach options (since now it's June and maybe there's new discoveries), that would be great.

Duck Hunt's are more often than not zoners/campers so it's pretty handy to run into them when learning a character so you learn how their neutral functions and what their options are.

Crossup nair's biggest threats are OoS bairs, shield stun and positioning prevent most other options from being effective due to it's low end lag.

Fully charged SS does go though frisbee, and keeping it charged while on the approach is great. It's also decent at hitting the can, since it's not really a huge asset in killing him,you can afford to use it for these. Otherwise simply short hop/sh-airdodge over/through and look to react to his next option. Nair also beats frisbee if you catch him using it upclose.

The most important thing to remember when approaching with WFT is that her neutral does not function like any other characters in the game. You're not going to be spacing aerial and tilts, you're trying to get your opponent to overcommit to something and punish. Learn to be ok with walking, crawling, and standing still. Get familiar with ground speeds and character range. Recognize what options players are most likely to take and what options you have that beat them. Keep the neutral in mind and you'll never have issue approaching with WFT.

 

[Lil Puddin]

The most important thing to remember when approaching with WFT is that her neutral does not function like any other characters in the game. You're not going to be spacing aerial and tilts, you're trying to get your opponent to overcommit to something and punish. Learn to be ok with walking, crawling, and standing still. Get familiar with ground speeds and character range. Recognize what options players are most likely to take and what options you have that beat them. Keep the neutral in mind and you'll never have issue approaching with WFT.

Thankfully I play Peach/Zelda, so I am very used to neutral being *THE* fast paced action event I've been waiting for. Which is the equivalent of watching snails glide across a wide wall with paint rollers attached to them, and then watching the paint dry. My jiggly pudding heart can't take all that intense action for more than an hour.

Back on topic/back to not making fun of boring princesses, I've been trying out the feint+jab for the soccer ball thing and it feels like a knock-off version of Peach's turnip throw. The only problem is I can't get serious follow ups that are fatal. On the other hand that's a free 8/9 damage that never goes stale. As for header, where exactly is the spike hit box? I dabble with it and think I got it, but half the time the opponent gets spiked and then SAVED by getting hit with the soccer ball to pop them upwards.

 

[⑨ball]

It is kinda, though probably closer to her light turnips than default. They've both got their pros and cons, but I don't think many WFT's would trade header for it (unless they were light turnips because those are amazing). WFT's ground and air speed let you follow up with pretty much anything you'd be able to get off of weighted header so as long as you follow in with a foxtrot you'll be able to cover roll, shield, and hit pretty efficiently and kill around the same percents with things like header>header, header>dair, header>bair, header>usmash, header>nair>uair ect. not to mention huge damage whenever you want it off of combos. And yes 8/9 damage on a move that never goes stale while counting as two on the stale moves list is pretty sweet. I wish more people would use that stuff.

This is an old image I made for similar purposes. The hurtboxes are definitely wrong, but the hitboxes are pretty accurate afaik.

So there are two areas, (the bottom and back) that will always spike and never also combo with the ball(unless you have weighted which can reach the spiked opponent at low percents and hit them again lol) for a 15%, the sweet spot in between the ball and the head which will hit ball first, then you for 23%(default), and the sour spot (overlapping) that will spike for 15% and then hit the ball into the opponent for 8/9%.

The one on the back is best for those "I know you're going to airdodge" moments. The one on bottom is best for recoveries and challenges and will completely destroy most things (ex: Ness PKT2), and the sour spot is for combos or "don't care either way" moments. Sweet spot is always good but can be difficult to land midmatch.

 

[Macchiato]

If you space nair, I think its safe

 

[⑨ball]

If you space nair, I think its safe

Maybe, but I doubt it. If you're aiming for shield damage/pressure then we'd be -2/-4 on block depending on which hit lands, and given a good distance dash grabs might not be viable, but it all depends on how close her recovering animation is to the opponent to see whether or not they can just OoS grab her.

It's much simpler and more effective to just crossup or empty jump/almost empty jump to bait OoS options.

 

[Macchiato]

Maybe, but I doubt it. If you're aiming for shield damage/pressure then we'd be -2/-4 on block depending on which hit lands, and given a good distance dash grabs might not be viable, but it all depends on how close her recovering animation is to the opponent to see whether or not they can just OoS grab her.

It's much simpler and more effective to just crossup or empty jump/almost empty jump to bait OoS options.

Idk I never have to approach so yeah. I always stand and shoot SSs and SHAC headers