Approach Options?

[Mechaglacier]

I've been wondering if mewtwo should have approach options. If he does have approach options, what are they. I've seen some use full hop nair to fair or SH air dodge fair but its hard to which is better since they both have huge flaws. I've discussed this with the Skype group but most said mewtwo shouldn't approach. I feel we should have some kind approach if we're forced to approach

 

[Shabadoo]

Approach with a grab? Forward tilt? Dash Attack? Nair? Confusion may work in some cases but mewtwo thrives off of the little strings and mix ups he manages to get primarily through punishing. Going in guns blazing is just gonna get you comboed into oblivion.

 

[SeanS]

Approaching with him is largely a mix up. He is a zoning character.

Dash attack and dash grab are the tools of preference.

Light shadow ball into grab is sometimes a possibility as well, but this is character and precision dependent.

 

[Smashifer]

Well, at the beginning of a match it'd be better if you started out charging a Shadow Ball. Your opponent will have two options: let you charge it and have a very powerful move in your pocket so they can wait for you to approach, or run up to you in hopes of disrupting your charge session.
If they do let you charge it, you could shoot it immediately and run after it. This will make your opponent do a few things:
Shield
Jump
Roll

You can obviously read all of these and react appropriately. For instance, if they jump over the Shadow Ball, you can use any aerial or go for an empty shorthop and then fsmash, dsmash, or usmash. If they decide to shield it, you could go for a grab and decide what you want to do from there.
Really, I feel Mewtwo doesn't need to approach because of this. I know this is a long read, but I hope this helped! Correct me if you see anything I might have gotten incorrectly.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Wait patiently and use Phasing and Extended DD to either force them to come closer, or to close the gap between them. Dash attack isn't really safe, and Grab has weird timing, so the best option is most likely foxtrot into shield or something of that ilk.

Remember, Mewtwo isn't as much a defensive character as a punishing character.

 

[Metalex]

Against some characters shad Fair is a very good option, particulary against some projectile based attacks (for example if Robin uses firetome which can't be reflected at him) since you can airdodge through the projectile/attack and then punish with Fair before the attack animation ends. (shad Uair works at times too).

But generally i think Mewtwo isn't forced to approach aggresively within almost any matchups and his game is more about patient spacing and harrasing in mid range until you get a small punish window and can land big damage from for example a Dtilt. Like Sonicninja said he's very much a punish based character.

 

[meleebrawler]

The combination of a strong and versatile projectile plus a reflector means Mewtwo is almost never in a situation where he HAS to approach. You'll find that Mewtwo gets most of his damage not from getting in and starting combos but by spacing and deflecting attempts made to approach him.

It's a common misconception to rag on Mewtwo's combos not being as good or easy to land as some rushdown-centered characters when in reality he's not that reliant on them to succeed. But he is somewhat competent at it anyway which adds to his versatility. He just has to be careful not to be too predictable no matter what he does.

 

[Mechaglacier]

The problem is against top tiers we have to approach their tools beat out ours

 

[meleebrawler]

The problem is against top tiers we have to approach their tools beat out ours

The only top tier for which this is remotely true is Sheik, cuz' needles. Rosa's pull can be punished even on a successful use.

What Mewtwo struggles with isn't approaching, it's people who can approach HIM successfully and make him suffer. But even if you end up losing a stock or taking a bunch of damage, don't immediately start trying to play aggressively in an impatient attempt to make up the damage. Chances are you'll only make yourself lose faster.

To be successful with Mewtwo you have to be able to make level-headed responses to any situation, despite the pressure of his low weight. And remember that fleeing is sometimes a wise decision as well.

 

[Mechaglacier]

The only top tier for which this is remotely true is Sheik, cuz' needles. Rosa's pull can be punished even on a successful use.

What Mewtwo struggles with isn't approaching, it's people who can approach HIM successfully and make him suffer. But even if you end up losing a stock or taking a bunch of damage, don't immediately start trying to play aggressively in an impatient attempt to make up the damage. Chances are you'll only make yourself lose faster.

To be successful with Mewtwo you have to be able to make level-headed responses to any situation, despite the pressure of his low weight. And remember that fleeing is sometimes a wise decision as well.

A lot of top tiers actually beat out small shadow balls with just aerials and that hinders our defenses greatly we could use larger shadow balls but the endlag is greater and they can either run up shield or just jump over it especially on platformed stages

 

[meleebrawler]

A lot of top tiers actually beat out small shadow balls with just aerials and that hinders our defenses greatly we could use larger shadow balls but the endlag is greater and they can either run up shield or just jump over it especially on platformed stages

There's no additional endlag for charged balls, just more recoil. And unless they powershield the shieldstun will be far too great to get any meaningful punish.

Being defensive is more than just hanging back and throwing projectiles all day. You have to use them in combination with your other spacing moves (bair and uair in particular if they take to they air with platforms a lot) to successfully counter them. Each options on it's own may be fairly easily countered, but combining them or mixing them up is how you stay ahead of the game.

 

[Mechaglacier]

so we cant approach even if we are forced to

 

[meleebrawler]

so we cant approach even if we are forced to

The idea that Mewtwo can't approach at all is ludicrous if you just look at his mobility. Good dashing and third fastest airspeed, coupled with, again, a reflector and strong projectile, and you are hard-pressed to win solely by timing Mewtwo out. The threat of charged ball alone is often enough to get people moving.

It's precisely BECAUSE his moves are so good at preventing keepaway tactics that it's generally in Mewtwo's best interest to not make the first move, as he has far more control in this situation and punishing overextensions is one of the things Mewtwo does best. But that doesn't make him incapable of aggression, he just has to to do it in a calculated, Marth-like fashion with spacing to avoid making punishable mistakes of his own.

But maybe all this just goes over your head as a Falcon player.

 

[Mechaglacier]

The idea that Mewtwo can't approach at all is ludicrous if you just look at his mobility. Good dashing and third fastest airspeed, coupled with, again, a reflector and strong projectile, and you are hard-pressed to win solely by timing Mewtwo out. The threat of charged ball alone is often enough to get people moving.

It's precisely BECAUSE his moves are so good at preventing keepaway tactics that it's generally in Mewtwo's best interest to not make the first move, as he has far more control in this situation and punishing overextensions is one of the things Mewtwo does best. But that doesn't make him incapable of aggression, he just has to to do it in a calculated, Marth-like fashion with spacing to avoid making punishable mistakes of his own.

But maybe all this just goes over your head as a Falcon player.

I rarely play falcon anymore I've been so focused on breaking the character apart to find what he can do and how he handles top tiers i had that statement in my head for a while but I've constantly tested for hours upon hours and found yes we are good at preventing such tactics but i wanna make a neutral for him that isn't just sit back and shoot shadow balls or force approaches. I understand defensive play suits him better but at this rate we're falling behind other characters. People are saying we're worst than jigglypuff or we're as bad as zelda. I may have falcon as a main but i know what im trying to do with mewtwo

 

[Smashifer]

tfw it didn't notify me of this thread being active even though i'm watching it

Anywho, I've gained that Mewtwo doesn't have any major (emphasis on major, sometimes I'm a little stuck) problems approaching because his rather fast f-air and SB can be used enough to, well, approach. If anything, it's those characters who can do a better job at approaching than Mewtwo (coughrushdownscough). Maybe we should work out a way to counter those kinds of problems, maybe for a later thread or something. But to answer OP's question, the answer I picked was situation dependent, which has been explained as to why multiple times over in the previous comments.

 

[meleebrawler]

I rarely play falcon anymore I've been so focused on breaking the character apart to find what he can do and how he handles top tiers i had that statement in my head for a while but I've constantly tested for hours upon hours and found yes we are good at preventing such tactics but i wanna make a neutral for him that isn't just sit back and shoot shadow balls or force approaches. I understand defensive play suits him better but at this rate we're falling behind other characters. People are saying we're worst than jigglypuff or we're as bad as zelda. I may have falcon as a main but i know what im trying to do with mewtwo

The people who say those kinds are generally rather ignorant of what Mewtwo is capable of. Though that perception seems to be changing, fewer people see him as bottom (or if they do, it's borderline) these days.

It's mainly the realization that Mewtwo has a coherent and functioning gameplan with some impressive rewards and moves that keeps him far from being the worst. If there's any reason he's falling behind it's that he's just too unforgiving if you fail to perform that plan properly.