Any broken characters? Any HORRIBLE characters?

[piscaso]

Hi guys!

I wasn't really mature enough to play brawl competently, but now I've become fairly competitive with smash wii u! I've already been to my first tourney!
But onto the question:
I'm debating whether to get Brawl/Project M because I want to experiment with both games. (plus it's like 15 bucks on amazon or something)
I know it gets updates and has mewtwo and others who were cut from 4, so I wanted to know if there are any OP characters or really BAD characters. I know it was recently updated to 3.5, so I know it hasn't been tested fully (I think). Are there any glaring issues like meta knight was in brawl?

Thanks a lot guys!

 

[Binary Clone]

Pretty much everyone in PM is viable, and there are very few standouts in 3.5.

Nobody is super broken anymore (but people will claim that some characters are still OP, of course), but Olimar is pretty bad. ICs are also not great, but I think they're kind of underrated.

 

[Chag0]

Fox is slightly better than everyone, ICies are bugged and Olimar is trash, all in all the cast is just insanely more balanced than in any other smash game

 

[Bleck]

everyone except fox is bad and everyone is lying to you

 

[PlateProp]

Fox is still way better than everyone, ICies are bugged and Olimar is trash, all in all the cast is just insanely more balanced than in any other smash game

FTFY, no need to thank me

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Yeah Fox still seems like he's incredibly good, much better than many characters of the cast. But if you are going to main him, then remember that it will take A LOT of practice to get his tech skill down. He's by no means an easy character to use.

 

[MegaMissingno]

Nobody stands out as overpowered in 3.5 so far. People have been whining about Fox since the beginning of PM and no matter how many times he gets nerfed they'll never stop complaining. Pay them no heed, the gap between him and the rest was never that bad in Melee and he's only gone down here. He's fine.

As for bad characters, Olimar is trash. Ice Climbers are bugged. And Jigglypuff is all or nothing matchup-wise, she goes even against many characters but has a lot of hard counters too.

 

[PlateProp]

Nobody stands out as overpowered in 3.5 so far. People have been whining about Fox since the beginning of PM and no matter how many times he gets nerfed they'll never stop complaining. Pay them no heed, the gap between him and the rest was never that bad in Melee and he's only gone down here. He's fine.

As for bad characters, Olimar is trash. Ice Climbers are bugged. And Jigglypuff is all or nothing matchup-wise, she goes even against many characters but has a lot of hard counters too.

Ignore this clown, he's part of the maylay illuminati that wants to keep Fox at the top forever

 

[ThegreatVaporeon1]

Olimar and game and watch seem to be pretty bad. I also feel like Luigi suffers a bit in 3.5. But I'm sure as the meta evolves (hopefully no more patches for char changes and just bug fixes), even those characters will be shown to be great.

Right now as it stands though, Fox just seems to have way too many options in comparison to the rest of the cast. There's so much going for him at the moment that it's hard not to say he's the best.

 

[piscaso]

Thanks guys!
I'm buying a copy of bawl on amazon, wish me luck!

 

[Fortress]

In no particular order:

Cash-tier

1) Fux
2) Poisonally I poifer da d-Air
3) Whoop Whoop
4) Zelda
5) Girl Zelda
6) Raiden
7) Turban Zelda
8) Pretty anime guy
9) 4-stocks-of-Swallowcide
10) Good Ness

I Place Well At Tournaments-Tier

11) YESZFALCONPAAAAWNCHSHOWMEYOURSHOWMEYOURSHOWMEYOURMOVES
12) Metagame destroyer Knight of Brawl
13) ROY'S OUR BOY
14) Can't Let You Do That, Low-Tiers
15) Mario's Fireball
16) Eh, Peach is still pretty good
17) My Arrows got nerfed in 3.5
18) Bad Ness
19) Lucario's like Street Fighter, right?
20) Metroid (can crawl since 3.0)
21) Noisy Kong
22) DWIGHT 'I FIGHT FOR MY FRIENDS' EISENHOWER
23) Gotta Go Fast
24) Flame Choke > d-Tilt > Take 'Em To The Space Jam
25) Why aren't more people playing Yoshi
26) Axe makes your Pikachu look like garbage

I Mean, I Attend Tournaments-Tier

27) Second Banana
28) Cargo Throw
29) Waa Waa WAAA
30) Razor Leaf was good in 2.6
31) DeDeDon't pick this character
32) Zero Suit Metroid (can also crawl)
33) SO MUCH ARMOR
34) Anime Zelda
35) Judgement > Judgement > Judgement > Judgement

LOL Everybody Look At Me, I'm Playing DAN-Tier

36) Recovery Obsolete Buddy
37) No-Guys-Solomar-Is-Viable-Really
38) SoPo (because learning these guys is hard)
39) I mean, Rest is still a thing, right?
40) No-Guys-Squirtle-Is-Also-Top-Tier-Seriously-Why-Are-You-Laughing?
41) Big n-Air, don't care

 

[Boiko]

In no particular order:
Cash-tier

1) Fux
2) Poisonally I poifer da d-Air
3) Whoop Whoop
4) Zelda
5) Girl Zelda
6) Raiden
7) Turban Zelda
8) Pretty anime guy
9) 4-stocks-of-Swallowcide
10) Good Ness

I Place Well At Tournaments-Tier

11) YESZFALCONPAAAAWNCHSHOWMEYOURSHOWMEYOURSHOWMEYOURMOVES
12) Metagame destroyer Knight of Brawl
13) ROY'S OUR BOY
14) Can't Let You Do That, Low-Tiers
15) Mario's Fireball
16) Eh, Peach is still pretty good
17) My Arrows got nerfed in 3.5
18) Bad Ness
19) Lucario's like Street Fighter, right?
20) Metroid (can crawl since 3.0)
21) Noisy Kong
22) DWIGHT 'I FIGHT FOR MY FRIENDS' EISENHOWER
23) Gotta Go Fast
24) Flame Choke > d-Tilt > Take 'Em To The Space Jam
25) Why aren't more people playing Yoshi
26) Axe makes your Pikachu look like garbage

I Mean, I Attend Tournaments-Tier

27) Second Banana
28) Cargo Throw
29) Waa Waa WAAA
30) Razor Leaf was good in 2.6
31) DeDeDon't pick this character
32) Zero Suit Metroid (can also crawl)
33) SO MUCH ARMOR
34) Anime Zelda
35) Judgement > Judgement > Judgement > Judgement

LOL Everybody Look At Me, I'm Playing DAN-Tier

36) Recovery Obsolete Buddy
37) No-Guys-Solomar-Is-Viable-Really
38) SoPo (because learning these guys is hard)
39) I mean, Rest is still a thing, right?
40) No-Guys-Squirtle-Is-Also-Top-Tier-Seriously-Why-Are-You-Laughing?
41) Big n-Air, don't care

Allow me to translate:

Cash-tier
1) Fox
2) Falco
3) Mewtwo
4) Link
5) Zelda
6) Snake
7) Sheik
8) Marth
9) Kirby
10) Lucas

I Place Well At Tournaments-Tier
11) Captain Falcon
12) Metaknight
13) Roy
14) Wolf
15) Mario
16) Peach
17) Pit
18) Ness
19) Lucario
20) Samus
21) Diddy Kong
22) Ike
23) Sonic
24) Ganondorf
25) Yoshi
26) Pikachu

I Mean, I Attend Tournaments-Tier
27) Luigi
28) Donkey Kong
29) Wario
30) Ivysaur
31) DeDeDe
32) Zero Suit Samus
33) Bowser
34) Toon Link
35) G&W

LOL Everybody Look At Me, I'm Playing DAN-Tier
36) ROB
37) Olimar
38) Ice Climbers
39) Jigglypuff
40) Squirtle
41) Charizard

 

[Fortress]

@ piscaso

In all seriousness, if you're just starting the game, you'll want to really focus on your fundamentals and develop the most basic tech skill to help develop your movement. Movement is by-far the most important thing you can develop in Smash, since so much in the series is based around it alone. Mastering the Short Hop, the Fast Fall, and knowing what's important about the Initial Dash are things that will help you immensely at your level.

There's so much to learn that I can't even begin to just describe it all out here. One thing many beginners struggle with is when to attack, and when they know when, what attacks to use. A lot of new players go ham with their smash attacks, but it's important to always know what attacks are your fastest and safest. Basically, if both you and your opponent are in the state referred to as the 'Neutral Game' (when neither player is knocked down, recovering, being attacked, etc.), you want to ALWAYS assume that the next attack you pick WILL be blocked or dodged. That way, you'll always have it in the back of your mind to pick the best attack for that situation. "Would I be safer if this attack missed, or this one?" Is the question you'll ask yourself, and you'll pick the safer of the two generally.

Another thing that I see a lot of newer players often do is jump around, a lot. Remember, your character is always, always (with the exception of some few characters like Puff and Peach) stronger on the ground than in the air. On the ground, your character has access to much more of their toolkit than they do in the air. Once you're in the air, you're committed to being there, so you always want to force situations where the opponent has less options than you.

Like I said, there's so much to just know that it's hard to even begin writing about it.

Click on this link, and bookmark it, refer to it often. ssbwiki is your friend, as well.

 

[Chag0]

1) Fux
2) Poisonally I poifer da d-Air
3) Whoop Whoop
4) Zelda
5) Girl Zelda
6) Raiden
7) Turban Zelda
8) Pretty anime guy
9) 4-stocks-of-Swallowcide
10) Good Ness

I Place Well At Tournaments-Tier
11) YESZFALCONPAAAAWNCHSHOWMEYOURSHOWMEYOURSHOWMEYOURMOVES
12) Metagame destroyer Knight of Brawl
13) ROY'S OUR BOY
14) Can't Let You Do That, Low-Tiers
15) Mario's Fireball
16) Eh, Peach is still pretty good
17) My Arrows got nerfed in 3.5
18) Bad Ness
19) Lucario's like Street Fighter, right?
20) Metroid (can crawl since 3.0)
21) Noisy Kong
22) DWIGHT 'I FIGHT FOR MY FRIENDS' EISENHOWER
23) Gotta Go Fast
24) Flame Choke > d-Tilt > Take 'Em To The Space Jam
25) Why aren't more people playing Yoshi
26) Axe makes your Pikachu look like garbage

I Mean, I Attend Tournaments-Tier
27) Second Banana
28) Cargo Throw
29) Waa Waa WAAA
30) Razor Leaf was good in 2.6
31) DeDeDon't pick this character
32) Zero Suit Metroid (can also crawl)
33) SO MUCH ARMOR
34) Anime Zelda
35) Judgement > Judgement > Judgement > Judgement

LOL Everybody Look At Me, I'm Playing DAN-Tier
36) Recovery Obsolete Buddy
37) No-Guys-Solomar-Is-Viable-Really
38) SoPo (because learning these guys is hard)
39) I mean, Rest is still a thing, right?
40) No-Guys-Squirtle-Is-Also-Top-Tier-Seriously-Why-Are-You-Laughing?
41) Big n-Air, don't care

This is probably one of the most inaccurate PM tier list i have ever seen, only the CT tier list was even worse

 

[Fortress]

That's just, like, your opinion, man.

 

[Chag0]

Sorry for being rude, but maybe you would like to take a look to the Tier LIst Speculation thread

 

[Fortress]

Maybe you'd like to check out my recent activity. Or quit posting.

I should also probably add that it's called "tier list speculation" and not "tier list this is the actual official non-arguable tier list shut up Fortress".

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

22) DWIGHT 'I FIGHT FOR MY FRIENDS' EISENHOWER

Lol'd way too ****ing hard

 

[KayB]

In no particular order:
Cash-tier

1) Fux
2) Poisonally I poifer da d-Air
3) Whoop Whoop
4) Zelda
5) Girl Zelda
6) Raiden
7) Turban Zelda
8) Pretty anime guy
9) 4-stocks-of-Swallowcide
10) Good Ness

I Place Well At Tournaments-Tier

11) YESZFALCONPAAAAWNCHSHOWMEYOURSHOWMEYOURSHOWMEYOURMOVES
12) Metagame destroyer Knight of Brawl
13) ROY'S OUR BOY
14) Can't Let You Do That, Low-Tiers
15) Mario's Fireball
16) Eh, Peach is still pretty good
17) My Arrows got nerfed in 3.5
18) Bad Ness
19) Lucario's like Street Fighter, right?
20) Metroid (can crawl since 3.0)
21) Noisy Kong
22) DWIGHT 'I FIGHT FOR MY FRIENDS' EISENHOWER
23) Gotta Go Fast
24) Flame Choke > d-Tilt > Take 'Em To The Space Jam
25) Why aren't more people playing Yoshi
26) Axe makes your Pikachu look like garbage

I Mean, I Attend Tournaments-Tier

27) Second Banana
28) Cargo Throw
29) Waa Waa WAAA
30) Razor Leaf was good in 2.6
31) DeDeDon't pick this character
32) Zero Suit Metroid (can also crawl)
33) SO MUCH ARMOR
34) Anime Zelda
35) Judgement > Judgement > Judgement > Judgement

LOL Everybody Look At Me, I'm Playing DAN-Tier

36) Recovery Obsolete Buddy
37) No-Guys-Solomar-Is-Viable-Really
38) SoPo (because learning these guys is hard)
39) I mean, Rest is still a thing, right?
40) No-Guys-Squirtle-Is-Also-Top-Tier-Seriously-Why-Are-You-Laughing?
41) Big n-Air, don't care

Looking at tournament results since 3.5, a lot of the decisions/placements on this list are really strange.

 

[Fortress]

Looking at tournament results since 3.5, a lot of the decisions/placements on this list are really strange.

I haven't kept up on the PM scene for the past couple of months. I just sort of assumed that most of the PM 3.02 tops were still either top or near top.

 

[J3f]

I haven't kept up on the PM scene for the past couple of months. I just sort of assumed that most of the PM 3.02 tops were still either top or near top.

No way Link is still top 5, or top 20 for that matter. Mewtwo was nerfed too. Most everyone else was shuffled around in the tier list too. Fox is still number 1 though.

 

[Fortress]

No way Link is still top 5, or top 20 for that matter. Mewtwo was nerfed too. Most everyone else was shuffled around in the tier list too. Fox is still number 1 though.

To be fair, I did mention that my list was not in a particular order. I'm a Link main and I'm confident that he's somewhere between 8-14 right now. The closest semblance to an order is who is roughly top, high, mid, and low/bottom.

Off-topic, but I think Link not being in the top twenty is a little unfair to him. I think he still has the tools to be top twenty material.