Any advice

[snadmonkey]

Ok, So i was bored other day and entered an 88 man online tournie. It was double elimination and I had both my losses to the same person, the second beind in the finals o f course. No one else in tournie even took a game off me. Anyways I had played this guy once before as well, so I'm not 0-3 with him. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong exactly. His defence is just so good, I struggle with being able to bypass his wall. Anyways here is 2 of our games from the grand finals, please leave insightful advice if you can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7ImMLFFs_Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyOIm0yaVW4

This isn't our first games so we kinda knew each other and thats why you see us do some weird stuff. Also my spirit was broken on the 3rd game when i died cause i was facing wrong direction. Anyways, advice on countering the wall?

 

[Koskinator]

Hmm, more lasers in the air and less on the ground. A lot of the time you spent was just shooting lasers while he was in the air. Also, trying trying baiting him in for a shield grab more, and try to keep the match grounded as best you can, Wolf has an advantage over Kirby on the ground, but Kirby has Wolf in the air. Other than that, not much more I can say.

 

[snadmonkey]

I tried grabbing, he almost always lands outside grab range. The first set i played him i tried shield grabbing, he has good spacing and DI. He also is basically in air the whole time. He's just so high not sure what I can do to him up there, if I go for upair his down air dominates me. I tried using reflector one game to stop the wall but his DI was to good and I ate more backairs than i stopped. He was also usually to high to laser in the air, I was just lasering incase he landed, wasn't sure what else to do honestly.

He's just good at making the matchup in his favor I guess, thanks for at least commenting Kos, I was hoping there was some trick tod o against kirby that worked well.

 

[§witch]

Yeah, krby is just weird in that not many people play as him, therefore not many people know how to play against him. Your wolf looked prety good there except, I didn't see any SH nairs, throw in shine then fsmash that's like 20%, It's really good for any character at any %.

 

[Loup17]

i think you should save your downsmash more. he was killing you at very nearly the same percentages you were killing him at, and with the weight difference taken into account, that's a very bad thing. it's cause he would save his smashes for basically the whole match. though your fair was pretty unused, you might consider using that to kill him if you end up in a similar situation.

also, don't forget, you can reflect his shockwave. it's a minor thing, but it doesn't hurt to do, it's so obvious when it's coming that you'll never not have time to put the reflector up, and even if it doesn't reach him because of the short range it has, reflecting frames act the same way as powershields do, you can do anything instantly after reflecting something, so there's no harm in doing it. besides, there were even a couple times it would've hit him xP

other than that, i'm not sure what advice to give.

 

[Shake~]

I stopped using Nairs often, I usually get hit/grabbed during the non-flinch frames.

And get in the air with that blaster foo'. And it seems like you never use any of Wolf's tilts, use 'em, especially forward tilt.

 

[snadmonkey]

Forward tilt is not a move you use when ur opponent can shield it. It means a gauranteed fsmash coutner, they let first hit land, then sidestep second blow and fsmash back. I also tried numerous times to do fair on him, he just out prioritized me every single time. He also only did his up B like 3 times that I could even have a chance to reflect. Please watch the videos before leaving advice that was already attempted and proven to fail.

 

[Shake~]

I've never been really punished badly for forward tilt, but if they really can do that, then disregard that piece of advice.

Edit- Was the video comment toward Loup?

 

[Loup17]

pkease don't tell me what i haven't done, it's very rude of you. i did watch the videos, and as far as i can tell, i didn't give you any bad advice. i did not tell you to use more fairs, i said that it was the only one of your killing moves which wasn't stale. and i know that you were only in position to reflect his up b a few times. since when does "a couple times" mean often? i was simply pointing out that it's better than shielding in every way. i did not say that it would suddenly make you win. i was just telling you what i thought would help, if you ask for advice that's what you are going to get.

 

[snadmonkey]

Hm well I'm more interested on how to counter his wall of kirby than anything else since thats 95% of the game loup. Also shake I didn't learn about it till i started playing some top end players, I use to like ftilt a good bit to, till I played a Snake that knew how to do that, I've run into couple others to, so I've resorted to using dtilt if I must tilt, downside is it takes alot longer to tilt behind you.

 

[castorpollux]

Even though u are against using the shine, I honestly feel that it can force kirby to approach u in a different way. Also, if hes up that high and slowly BAIRing towards u, IMO the worst thing you can do is just stand there and try to shield grab him (caz its probably what he's expecting). I would actually run/smashboost under him if he's flying that high towards u and see what he does from there.

 

[Loup17]

well, you could try to predict where's he's gonna be and jump up and forward b him out of the air, but that's sort of touch and go...

 

[castorpollux]

loup, the only time you should ever try to aim the forward b to hit the guy is when u are semi-scarring back onto the stage

 

[Loup17]

i'm so sick of hearing that. yes, it's rare, sometimes i go several matches at a time without even trying it, but i've still landed it plenty of times, and even in germ's vids you can see him try it. it's very unexpected, because the chances for it are so few, but if he landed it successfully on that kirby and it scared him it might have scared him into using such a floaty attack style. or it might not. but snad asked for possible ways to either attack through the wall or get him to stop, and that is one possibility. it's not like i suggested he use fire wolf.

 

[snadmonkey]

I did thik about that actually loup, I was just afraid that he would fsmash me if I missed, considering he can kill me at like 70% with a cstick fsmash, and if i'me below 70% he could do one of his annowing grab combos. It could be something to try, I also considering trying a Barrel wolf that would end with me grabbing the edge, though again very risky.

 

[Loup17]

i'm going to feel like a noob, but what is barrel wolf? i'm going to take a shot in the dark and say fire wolf (still hate that name lol) but i have no clue O.o

on a side note, fire wolf has very low ending lag if it stops close to the ground, much lower than if it stops in midair. of course that wouldn't help against kirby since he's up in the air so much...

 

[snadmonkey]

Barrel wolf > fire wolf =D. Anyways I was going to play it so it ends at ledge and I grab ledge. Not to helpful to go across ground when kirby is way up in the air as you say.

 

[Fugu15]

Lawlercoasters is such a good Kirby player =). I beat him last match we played and he was using almost the same style as your videos. I think that you should short hop fair more into his approaches. He always tries to come in high and then land a sneaky back air on a second and third jump. It seemed that the only thing that really worked was to be patient and let him develop his aerial approach and then either roll away and laser if the approach is perfect, or fair or shield grab if he makes a spacing mistake. This made for a very long and pretty boring match, but approaching deg myself just got me caught in those killer grab combos.

Not much of advice, but what really worked for me vs him was staying grounded almost the entire time.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

I stopped using Nairs often, I usually get hit/grabbed during the non-flinch frames.

Which is why it's useful only in high percentages. I try not to use it often and go with SH fairs and bairs. I hardly EVER use the uair, because it's completely useless.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

I reccomend jumping with the pistol and I dunno stuff?

There is my big thorough advice thing.

 

[Mr. Rogu]

do some short hop hits, thats pretty affective