Anti-drug propaganda (not PG-13, I'm sorry)

[cF=)]

What I'll hyperlink here is an interesting article wrote back in 2003 which I felt upon while browsing the internet. I haven't looked yet at sources proving what the author claims in this text, but if what he says is indeed true, it's a gorgeous eye opener to anybody who has prejudices against psychoactives in general.

-- http://www.reason.com/news/show/28809.html

I personally have fun breaking down arguments against drug use when I talk with my friends or my girlfriend. Has anybody already heard of sativa being laced with LSD, or how consuming cannabis leads automaticly to harder stuff like cocaine ? That's what I like to discuss and debate. You might also want to shout your opinion about drugs in general, it's a debate that could lead to several pages of discussion if we try to keep it on topic !

I know that perhaps this might not be allowed on smashboards, but I thought posting it in the debate hall instead of the pool room might avoid it being locked. Anyway, since I haven't seen anything alike in here, read and give your opinion.

EDIT: Crimson will probably lock this on sight, but at least I tried
EDIT2: 20 views and nobody replied yet ? Come on, let yourself be heard !

 

[cF=)]

The debate hall suck ;___;

 

[Crimson King]

Don't double post. Your posts are ****ty enough to get you kicked out as it is; don't break rules while your at it.

My stance on drugs: Do what the **** you want. As long as you aren't driving in a car while high or stoned or robbing me, I don't care what you do with your body.

The topic is allowed, just kinda avoid talking about stories where you yourself got high and make more generalizations.

 

[Wilhelmsan]

Drug use/addiction can cause physical and mental health concerns...as well, it interferes with "incentives" for becoming successful and wealthy (arguably by providing high quality of life for much less money, but that's up to you).

Don't get me wrong: I smoke lots and lots of pot, but drugs are bad and anyone who hasn't fried their brain should understand why.

 

[Zjiin]

The article is a glamorized example of someone who happens to be a exemption to the rule. (Rule being that heavy or regular heroin users have no future or cannot sustain a socially acceptable lifestyle) He, in no way, makes any kind of impact on the standards that make up facts about heroin and it's effects on normality. Yeah, it's different to hear about someone who can hide it from his friends and family, and be a successful business man, but does that really say anything about the drug or more about the individual?

 

[Crimson King]

Without reading the article but responding to Zjiin, Heroin is one of few drugs where, while on it, you function perfectly normal, and while it's not in your system, you are not yourself. So yes, it's quite possible you know heroin addicts and they might be at a stage where you wouldn't know. Of course years of any drug abuse will destroy your body.

 

[KevinM]

The article is a glamorized example of someone who happens to be a exemption to the rule. (Rule being that heavy or regular heroin users have no future or cannot sustain a socially acceptable lifestyle) He, in no way, makes any kind of impact on the standards that make up facts about heroin and it's effects on normality. Yeah, it's different to hear about someone who can hide it from his friends and family, and be a successful business man, but does that really say anything about the drug or more about the individual?

Heroine in itself does an interesting thing to the mind. It creates a false sense of Homeostasis which can permanently alter the brains chemistry. The mind from there on is permanently thrown out of whack, and needs the heroine to reach the false sense of homeostasis. It can do permanent damage to the cerebellum, and throws a person into a spiral of depression as they become more and more addicted to the band. The fact that the man was able to hide it and still be incredibly successful is a feat in itself. One exemption is always something to look at and take time to learn from.

 

[Zjiin]

One exemption is always something to look at and take time to learn from.

I agree that identifying the reason for an exemption is a good study on understanding all aspects of a certain topic, but hardly deems it to be a radical change to standards. The impression i felt from the article was that they were trying to play to the idea that heroin could become almost more of a problem if more people like this were to mask a second, addiction-based lifestyle. Although the idea seems possible when talking about a specific situation, it is unlikely in a big picture aspect.

 

[cF=)]

Your posts are ****ty enough to get you kicked out as it is; don't break rules while your at it.

Everything I say about the Debate Hall is now took as a personal insult to Crimson King ? Good job ruining the first post of my topic with your stupid swearing and by avoiding the link I purposly posted as my main argument.

Anyway, I wanted people to read this because it shows, honestly, that drugs (in this case heroin) won't make you a hobo or a prostitute. I don't know how many times I've heard teachers say ludicrous thing about drug use (even biology ones !), because they don't want to either loose their job or talk against the government's anti-drug propaganda.

I believe you can get out of opiates' addiction if you really feel the need to, even if you enter a false state of hemeostatis like KevinM said. Problem is, that's not what we see on TV everytime they talk about hookers, 17 years old students who drop out of school, etc. Tell me why it's accepted to have broadcast shows about wine tasting, but not having FOX news reporters go down the streets and interview drunkards to show what alcohol can lead to ?

I would also like to say that most drugs will act primarly on the body's serotonin level, which is why it causes harm on the long run if you use too much. In drugs like cocaine, the main problem is users 'reseting' their high, therefore lowering the number of dopamine transmitters AFTER MANY TIMES OF INTAKE. If you stop taking the drug, you'll feel a down, which CAN be overcomed, but probably won't because of how good people will feel during the effects... I mean, doesn't it seems plausible that a user will take cocaine and continue to do so because he doesn't want to return to his normal, maybe boring life ? I knew two friends who were addicted to cocaine: the first one had parental issues, the second one was bored out of his mind with school. And that's the type of consumers the public see.

 

[BeArR]

I have done drugs like I know a lot of people have. My stance on things in life is you have to try something at least once before you say its wrong and bad. Once you realize what it can do to you, you will most likely stop it, like I have. There are things that you should totally avoid, such as heroin and crack. It will totally mess up your whole body over time, much like other things. Drugs are bad and will eventually take you down to a level you don't want to be at. They lose many things for you and can cause horrible things to happen in your life. You could lose a loved one, blaming it on something else other than the drug. There are so many reasons to not touch drugs that it's clearly bad for you. Sure it sounds fun, but it comes with a price, much like going to a carnival, or going bowling. They're fun, but they cost money and time. This is money and time better well spent than doing drugs.

 

[cF=)]

Drugs are bad and will eventually take you down to a level you don't want to be at.

You know that many drugs outside of the opiates realm do not cause body addiction and won't, therefore, lead you to the deepest level of consumption ? If you decide to consume daily, then that's your problem, because may it be chocolate cake or DPH, they won't force you to take a dose.

There are so many reasons to not touch drugs that it's clearly bad for you. Sure it sounds fun, but it comes with a price, much like going to a carnival, or going bowling. They're fun, but they cost money and time. This is money and time better well spent than doing drugs.

That's an opinion like any others. The fun with drugs is not to sit down on a couch and wait for the effects to wear off (except salvia maybe), it's to be active, to interact with your friends or to do whatever activity you feel like while you're tripping. Depending on your country, people won't bother judging you if you go play bowling high, as long as you keep it to a normal sound level and don't encroach someone else's privacy and liberty. Simple as that.

 

[BeArR]

I see where you're coming from, and I totally understand. All I know is drugs didn't really lead to any fun for me, they didn't enhance anything, I just know that I ended up getting depressed of them after multiple attempts to enjoy them. This is just my experience with it and I don't really understand why people do them. No I did not know drugs outside the opiate realm cause body addiction. I am not a drug expert although I should do a little research on them. This is really just my two cents on the matter that if you look at how many lives are lost because of drugs, I really don't think it's worth it. I also think that some people that take substances are trying to get away from something that happened, or away from reality, that they're trying to escape it. I'm sure most people take them to enhance whatever they are doing or to have fun, but I am sure everyone can have a lot more fun from just hanging around, watching movies etc etc.

 

[cF=)]

This is really just my two cents on the matter that if you look at how many lives are lost because of drugs, I really don't think it's worth it. I also think that some people that take substances are trying to get away from something that happened, or away from reality, that they're trying to escape it. I'm sure most people take them to enhance whatever they are doing or to have fun, but I am sure everyone can have a lot more fun from just hanging around, watching movies etc etc.

I agree with you when you say some people will take drugs to escape reality, but in all honesty, alcohol is legal and serves the same purpose to certain men and women.

You can't relate sober fun to high fun, it's not the same, but they equal each others. When you feel your life is just as fine as taking drugs, you won't fall in addiction.

 

[Wikipedia]

I have done drugs like I know a lot of people have. My stance on things in life is you have to try something at least once before you say its wrong and bad.

That is the most flawed, most commonly stated, philosophy I have ever read. I refuse to go kill a man just to prove to myself that murder is wrong. I refuse to have sex with a dog to prove to myself that bestiality is wrong. I refuse to go steal a car to prove to myself that robbery is wrong. I refuse to do drugs, risk becoming addicted and possibly ruin my life just so I can have a stance on the topic. Yes, it is a risk, one man may have still been able to become successful while on drugs but what kind of life do the vast majority of drug users live? They live in poverty, gangs, violence, neglect, undernourishment, debt and depression.

Too many times have I heard the argument, "You shouldn't have a stance until you try it."

 

[Zjiin]

That is the most flawed, most commonly stated, philosophy I have ever read. I refuse to go kill a man just to prove to myself that murder is wrong. I refuse to have sex with a dog to prove to myself that bestiality is wrong. I refuse to go steal a car to prove to myself that robbery is wrong. I refuse to do drugs, risk becoming addicted and possibly ruin my life just so I can have a stance on the topic. Yes, it is a risk, one man may have still been able to become successful while on drugs but what kind of life do the vast majority of drug users live? They live in poverty, gangs, violence, neglect, undernourishment, debt and depression.

Too many times have I heard the argument, "You shouldn't have a stance until you try it."

I agree whole heartedly. That's a horrible approach to any stance.

Drugs are not the problem. I use drugs, and i have fun with it. I also know my limits, and know when i need to cut back from having too much "fun." The problem is people like me are very few compared to the people who use them for the wrong reasons. If you're trying to convince someone else to have a good time with you, and you use "don't knock it until you try it", you're either

A- trying to defend your habits with a wall that you know the other party will not attempt to break by actually participating in drug use,
or

B- trying to convince someone to take it with you which more often than not, is because you are depressed with what you have become and want someone to join you to make yourself feel better.

I have several groups of friends, and a lot of those groups do not use drugs. I will never try to get them to, they have their principles, and i have mine.

The reason i bring this up is because the majority of people don't have the control i claim to have. They won't stop when they need to, and it will become a black hole that consumes their lives. Like the OP states, yeah people can get along in life just great while using, but people are generally unhappy with their lives, and improperly turn to the wrong things to improve that. It doesn't make me a better person than them, it just says i have more self control. Just as people who are vegetarians have more self control than me. (my spare tire and i love em)

 

[The Mad Hatter]

You should also take into account many of the widely proscribed drugs which derive from illegal ones. Look at Adderall. Different from cocaine by one chemical bond. I've been on Adderall for a while and knows what it feels like to be on/off the drug. Does this mean I'm an addict?

I just think a lot of good has come from these drugs as well as a lot of bad. I also believe its the persons will power and motivation that dictates that.

 

[behemoth]

Argument 1 against controlled substances: They are illegal.

Okay, alcohol, cigarettes, and caffeine are legal. I guarantee you that more deaths, exponentially more deaths have been caused by alcohol (just by drunk driving, not even health effects), and by cigarettes (health issues) than the deaths caused by either marijuana or mushrooms.

I guess I should let it be known that I personally detest any drug that is created or modified in a lab. I would only take marijuana, mushrooms, dmt (when I'm 80), or peyote. With mushrooms in particular, man has been taking them since before we could speak, before civilization as we know it began.

Argument 2: Marijuana is a gateway drug.

First off, let me again point out that legal drugs, not even those you need a prescription for, are gateway chemicals. Find a group of 100 smokers and ask them when they started. I would estimate at least one tenth of them would say "when I drank".

You also hear alot of "I only smoke when I drink"

Now, round up 100 hallucinogen users, and ask them when or why they started. I wonder what the percentage would be of people who say "after/because I smoked weed."

Weed is a gateway drug indeed, though implicitly and not explicitly. When you take an illegal drug, it opens your eyes because you have to accept that you enjoy doing something that is illegal and villified in general. This will likely lead you to ask what other illegal things you may want to try. However, it does NOT make you necessarily want to try them.

Argument 3: These substances will make you a delinquent, and ruin your life.

I've smoked for four years, and I am a computer science major, with a 3.0 gpa and a major game in the works. I find myself more relaxed and able to enjoy tedium more when high.

There are people who allow weed to make them into a burnout, or can't leave the house without being high. However, I would offer to you that this is their fault, not the drug's. There are people so addicted to WoW that they don't shower for weeks. Should we ban video games? Some people have addictive personalities, it's a fact of life. They should not take drugs without caution (and I am also including alcohol and caffeine in that category).

As far as hallucinogens, overuse can have extremely bad side effects. Again, I present to you that this is the person's fault, not the drug's. Many people the world over have the proper respect for hallucinogens, and see them as a holy thing. These people don't overuse, and they don't take them to party, they take them to learn. This is not to say that they don't have any fun with it .

All in all, the arguments fall apart once logic is introduced. And don't even get me started on the drug companies and perscription drugs. Dear god.

 

[Your Hero]

The article is showing that one man that does heroin is living a successful life.

I don't like this article for two reasons.

For one, in the beginning of the article, it makes people think that heroin is good, and that it makes you relax. That may be true, but the drug wasn't made for everyone to relax, but only for those who truly needed it. That's why drugs are prescribed, and not just given away to people who want to relax.

Second, the article is a perfect example to how the media can manipulate people into doing something. They state this 44 year old executive is living a perfect life, and has been doing heroin for years.

The only things I like about this article is that in the end, he quits with his addiction, although the only reason he does it is because his wife tells him to stop.

 

[cF=)]

You should also take into account many of the widely proscribed drugs which derive from illegal ones.

Indeed, because banning "natural" drugs increase the income of any compagny able to create a molecule practicly similar, but approved in laboratories. I'm asking you this: if your doctor would've prescribed you cocaine instead, and told you there is no risk if you control the intake per day, would you've listened to him?

man has been taking them since before we could speak, before civilization as we know it began.

This might not be the right approach, because this argument could also apply to slavery, genocides, etc.

That's why drugs are prescribed, and not just given away to people who want to relax.
--
Second, the article is a perfect example to how the media can manipulate people into doing something. They state this 44 year old executive is living a perfect life, and has been doing heroin for years.

Drugs are prescribed so compagnies have the health monopoly. Quick example, marijuana is illegal in the U.S. since the 30's because hemp producers were doing harm to the cotton industries. Nowadays, the same would apply to pharmaceuticals compagnies who desire to keep everybody united under their products rather than having to share their business with "made-illegal" drugs.

Explanation are requiered on your second "argument", I only see you've quoted the article without adding anything to it. But if you believe it's an overstatement compared to the death they describe when your drug is laced, maybe you did not understood the goal of the article.

 

[Erimir]

Yes, it is a risk, one man may have still been able to become successful while on drugs but what kind of life do the vast majority of drug users live? They live in poverty, gangs, violence, neglect, undernourishment, debt and depression.

Evidence?

The vast majority of drug users are... the vast majority of Americans. Combine all the people who use alcohol, nicotine and other psychoactive drugs (prescription). That's a lot of people. Just because they're legal doesn't mean they're in principle different. And millions and millions of people have used marijuana as well.

At any rate, while I dislike Reason Magazine, that was a relatively good article. Drugs are not only a problem because of what the drugs themselves do. They're also a problem because when you use them to cope with ****ty circumstances, it can exacerbate the problem (due to the legal risks and expense). If you were living in a **** apartment in the ghetto, using drugs to escape that would be more attractive. The problem is that you might get arrested, or go even more into the hole because of the cost (which is inflated due to prohibition). Drugs might be making things worse in the ghettos, but there wouldn't be as many drug addicts in the ghetto if the ghetto wasn't already a crappy place to live.

To the extent that drugs cause problems in society, I don't think that criminalizing them is a good solution. And the best way to make drug addiction less appealing is to make life less ****ty.

I'm reminded of a study we were told about in a class of mine, involving rats and morphine (I don't know the name of the study, unfortunately). There were two groups of rats - one that lived in plain cages, and one group that lived in a "rat paradise" which had a little pond, places for nesting, room to move around, etc. They gave both groups sugar water laced with morphine for a month or so (rats like sugar water, just like we do [soda]). After that, they gave them the sugar water with morphine as well as a source of pure water. The rats in the regular cage were addicted to the morphine, and continued to use it even after they could choose to drink plain water. However, the rats in the "rat utopia" did not continue drinking the morphine laced water, even tho it had sugar in it.

The hypothesis? The rats in the plain cages kept using morphine because being a plain cage is boring and ****ty. So what else do they have to do? You'd wanna do morphine too if you trapped in a cage all day.

So basically, my stance would be to legalize it, and work on improving treatment, reducing the negative effects of drugs (clean needle distribution, for example), and address the root causes of drug use, rather than criminalizing those who are addicted.