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AlmightyPancake's Smash TCG!

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Alrighty, we had two seperate discussions going on in Rhubarbo's thread, so I figured it was common courteousy for me to move my idea to a separate thread. Our ideas are fairly different, so here's a basic layout of my game.

There are 6 different kinds of cards. Cards deemed "rare" are allowed only one copy in a deck.

Characters
Allies (broken down into pokeballs and ATs)
Actions (broken down into character-specific and general)
Techniques (broken down into character-specific and general)
Items
Stages

Before the game, each player chooses a stage, then flips a coin. Winner may choose which stage to use.

Each player starts the game with one character on the field. This is their only character for the game.

The game starts with each player drawing 6 cards. The turn structure is as follows:

Discard
Draw
Actions

Simple, no? Here's how it works:

Each character has a set "HP." Players keep track of this using paper. Life is generally lost in increments of 5s. So long as a player has above 20 HP remaining, they have little to worry about. However, whenever a player's life reaches 20 or less, they must perform "recovery attempts". This is done by flipping a coin once for every 5 damage, or until they get heads. If they do not get heads, they die and lose the game.

For example: Mario and Bowser are fighting. Bowser performs his Over A (a General Action card dealing 10 damage). This lowers Mario's life to 15. Mario must now recover. He flips three coins. One is heads. Mario has not lost the game.

Understand? Now, here's how you do damage.

Each turn, you begin by discarding everything in your action zone. This will become clearer in a moment. Then you draw a card. Now, during your action phase, you are able to do the following:

Use one item.
Make one attack using an action card.
Use a technique (as many as you like).

You may do those in any order. However, you may only play one item and one action card a turn. When you use an item, attack or technique card, they remain in the action zone until your next turn. This is for a few reasons:
1. It ensures that you do not try to use more than one item or attack in a turn.
2. It makes clear which techniques are in use.
3. Some cards only work when you've played something on your last turn. This makes it easier to understand.

A few examples:

Marth is fighting Bowser. Marth's owner has played the following cards:

Short Hop Slash! (Marth Specific Action)
Aerial. Marth Deals 5 damage to the opponent. He may perform another aerial.

Short Hop Slash! (Marth Specific Action)
Aerial. Marth Deals 5 damage to the opponent. He may perform another aerial.

SHFFL (General Technique)
Rare. If you've performed an aerial this turn, you are no longer exhausted. You may also perform another attack.

Sword Spike! (Marth Specific Action)
Rare. Spike. Aerial. Deals 10 damage to the opponent.

I Am Ken (Marth Specific Technique)
If the following cards have been played: Short Hop Slash! x2, SHFFL, Sword Spike, I Am Ken, then your opponent must attempt to recover. They have only once chance.

Now, in this instance, you can see how having all of the cards out at once helps. You can also see how some of the cards tell you something different from the rules. In those situations, the card is right. Now, in this case, Beez just got totally sword-****ed. He has only one chance to recover. Now, let's suppose he does. On his next turn, he does the following.

Up-claw!
Exhausts. If your opponent performed an aerial last turn, this move deals 20 damage to them.

A whopping 20 damage. Considering it took Marth 5 cards to do the same amount, you can see the difference in the decks.

What does exhaust mean? Well, think of it as being "tapped" in magic. It means the card can't perform an action. There are a few actions that can be performed on your opponent's turn--like shielding. There are also ways to exhaust a character before your action phase, leaving them useless through the whole turn. Being exhausted can be dangerous. Also, all aerials automatically exhaust you, unless they say otherwise. For example, marth's allowed him to perform an extra aerial.

That should be a sufficient explanation for now. I can type more if you like.

You should be able to see how much simpler mine is. I'm not touting it as better, simply as an alternative. It's much less complex, but, in my opinion, allows for more strategy. Do I play as marth or bowser? You can see the significant difference between the two. If I play as marth, do I try for combo setups? Or do I simply try for high damage?
 

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Here are my working rules, all copyrighted.

Golden Rule-If a card contradicts the rules, the card takes precedence. I.E: The rules state only one action may be taken in a turn. However, the card Marth's F-Air has the text "You may play another Aerial after this one." This means that you may play another action card with the modifier text "Aerial."

I. How to win
_A. Defeat your opponent or opponents by rendering them unable to recover.
__1. When an opponent's HP reaches 20 or below, they must flip a coin for every 5 health.
__2. If one of those coins is heads, they have successfully recovered. If none are, they have not and have lost the game.
__3. If a card "forces recovery," flip a coin for every 5 health you have.
_B. Your opponent attempts to draw a card, but has none left in their deck.

II. Zones of play
_ A. Deck
__ 1. The deck zone contains your deck. The deck must be a minimum of 60 cards, and can contain no more than 4 copies of any one card. Cards deemed "Rare" according to their text box are allowed only one copy in the deck.
__ 2. The deck may not contain character cards.
_ B. Character Zone
__ 1. The character Zone contains each player's character.
__ 2. No card enters or exits the character zone once play has begun.
_ C. Constant Zone
__ 1. Cards with the "Constant" modifier go in this zone.
__ 2. When cards in this pile are destroyed, they go into the Discard Zone
_D. Action Zone
__ 1. When you play a card, it goes here.
__ 2. Cards remain in the action zone until the discard stage at the beginning of your turn, in which all cards in the action zone are placed in the discard zone.
_E. Stage Zone
__1. The "stage" goes here.
__2. No card enters or leaves this zone once the game starts.
_ F. Discard Zone-any card leaving play enters this zone.
_ G. Removed from game-Some cards cause a card to be "removed from the game". Place these cards in this zone. They are no longer in play at all.
_H. The Priority List
__1. The priority list is more of a non-physical space. It is similar to the "stack" in magic. Basically, the most recently played card comes into play first.
__2. As of now, only technique cards may be played while another card is on the Priority List.

III. Kinds of Cards
_A. Characters
__ 1. Character cards only contain two forms of information.
___ a. HP, or the amount of damage the character can take.
___ b. Any modifier text (fast, heavy, etc.)
__2. Characters may be exhausted. If they are exhausted, they may not use any action cards.
_ B. Actions
__1. General actions.
___a. General actions may be played no matter which character you control.
___ b. Whenever a general action is played, it goes into the action zone.
___ c. General actions remain in the action zone until the next discard phase.
__2. Constant Actions
___a. These cards go into the constant zone, and remain there until they are destroyed in some way.
___b. When destroyed, these cards go into the discard zone.
__3. Character Specific Action
___ a. Character Specific actions may only be played when the character dictated by the card is under your control.
___ b. Character actions may also be constant actions.
___ c. Treat Character Actions as either general or constant actions, according to their text.
__4. Only one Action card may be played in a turn. An action card may not be played during your opponents turn.
__5. An action card may not be played if your character is exhausted.
_ C. Techniques
__1. Techniques may be played at any time and in any quantity during a turn. When you perform a technique "in response" to another action, the technique goes on the "Priority list".
__2. The most recently played technique enters play first.
__3. General Techniques.
___ a. General techniques may be played no matter which character you control. They go into the Action Zone.
___ b. General techniques remain in the action zone until the next discard phase.
__4. Constant Techniques
___a. These cards go into the constant zone, and remain there until they are destroyed in some way.
___ b. When destroyed, these cards go into the discard zone.
__5. Character Specific Techniques.
___a. Character Specific techniques may only be played when the character dictated by the card is under your control.
___ b. Character techniques may also be constant techniques.
___ c. Treat Character techniques as either general or constant techniques, according to their text.
_D. Items
__1. Only one item may be used in a turn.
__2. Items come in three forms: Regular Items and Constant Items
___a. Regular Items enter the Action zone, and are discarded during the discard phase.
___b. Constant items either represent an Assist Trophy, Pokemon, or equippable weapon. They go into the Constant zone, and remain there until destroyed in some way.
_E. Stages
__1. Stages are in a seperate deck. They are not allowed in a player's deck.
__2. Stages modify the game in some way. They may not be destroyed or removed from game.
__3. They remain in the stage zone.

IV. Turn structure.
_ A. Turns have only three parts to them: Discard, Draw, and Action.
_ B. Discard Phase
__1. The player in control (whose turn it is) must discard all cards in their action zone.
__2. They must also discard cards from their hand until he has 6 or fewer.
_C. Draw Phase
__1. The player in control draws two cards.
__2. If a player can not draw any cards, they lose the game. If they can only draw one card, they do not lose the game.
_ D. Action Phase.
__1. The player may do any combination of the following things: Use one item. Use one Action Card. Use a Technique.
__2. The player may choose to do nothing. If this occurs, exhaust the character.
 

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
rat said:
AlmightyP- could you put your game in another topic. I'm pretty much only responding to your idea. I don't want to clutter up Rhubarb's thread.

Randomness.
Coin flipping was my main objection to your rules. The core of my objection is that excessive randomness, while fun, will unbalance the game and take away from strategy. Is this really the case here? Is coin flipping while recovering going to remove much strategy? Well after looking at it again I don't think it will. But just make sure these happen.

1) Players have enough time to make strategic decisions.
-You have stated Healing, and considering HP and damage are relative to each other I'm sure this could be balanced easily.
2) Have safety nets.
-you have recovery cards. Maybe more than 1 stock could be cool.


On the rules here are some quick questions:
__4. Only one Action card may be played in a turn. An action card may not be played during your opponents turn.
__5. An action card may not be played if your character is exhausted.

Why have exhaustion? If you can only play one Action card a turn. What is the point of creating this condition? "Short Hop Slash!" already goes around this the 1 card a turn rule. "Up-claw!" Specifies exhaustion but it wouldn't matter because bowser could not play another card anyways. I don't see the reason to have both. Either just have, You can't play action cards when exhausted and specify which cards exhaust. Eliminating the only 1 action card a turn rule. -Or- eliminate exhaustion and keep the 1 card a turn rule.

Though I could see keeping both if exhaustion is used to limit the power of some techniques. But then the last rule makes no sense to me.
__2. The player may choose to do nothing. If this occurs, exhaust the character.
So if you want to play non-exhausted response-technique cards you must play a technique card during your turn? Why create this loophole. Just don't exhaust the character at the end of the turn.


I might run through the rules again and edit some stuff, but for the most part it's really clear. I'd like to help anyway that I can. I can easily do some play testing. I've already told some of my friends that this sounds cool and they would help me do it. I would love to help make some cards to. But that depends on seeing where you are going before I just start throwing out ideas. Like what terms you have down, what cards you have already made.
The point of exhaustion is the following: There are two cards Bowser (in this example) can use to recover without flipping coins.

The first is

Flying Fortress-Action
Rare. Recovers. Exhausts. Deals 10 damage to your opponent. If they have played an action this turn, nullify the actions, exhaust them, and deal 5 damage to them instead.

The second is

UP! B!-Technique
Recover your character.

Clearly, Flying Fortress is more powerful. However, the game would be unbalanced if bowser could use his upsmash for 20 damage, nullify their whole turn, and then probably get another full hit in. Basically, with three cards, bowser could do over 40 damage without retaliation. However, by exhausting him with his Upsmash, you ensure that he isn't too overpowered.

By the same token, it would be overpowered if he could use several "tilt" type cards which do not exhaust him. In bowser's first hand, he could do 60 damage without retaliation--enough to kill some of the smaller characters. That strikes me as an unbalanced game.

The reason characters are exhausted if their controller does nothing is to mirror the game a bit more--if you stand around, doing nothing, you will be punished for it. You never see a character standing still at the professional level, and I see no reason to allow it in the game. Being exhausted is not as big of a deal as it sounds--it simply means you can't use actions.

Also, when I get around to making Final Smashes, they will exhaust characters for their next turn as well.
 

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Also, I wouldn't mind help in making the representations of these cards. I'll start posting cardlists, enough for people to make decks. If anyone wants to pretty them up, that's fine by me.
 

soviet prince

I am the terror that flaps in the night
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
3,143
Location
Kentucky
NNID
7066-9708-9591
I have a game to lol but I am keeping it classified for now.
 

soviet prince

I am the terror that flaps in the night
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
3,143
Location
Kentucky
NNID
7066-9708-9591
Is everyone making a fan-based game now?

Mine is not a SSB game but more of a nintendo game with SSB elements. Also I was working on this game alot longer then when the first threads were being posted.
 

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Alright, here are some example cards. There are enough here to make two decks, albiet very themed decks.

MARIO THEMED CARDS

Mario-Character
100 HP

Breakdance- Mario Action
Flip two coins. If one is heads, deal 10 damage to one opponent. If two are heads, deal 20 damage to one opponent.

Fire Smash- Mario Action
Exhausts. Deal 10 damage to one opponent. They must recover.

Head Smack- Mario Action
If your opponent performed an aerial last turn, this move deals 15 damage to them.

Drill Spin- Mario Action
Aerial (This card exhausts your character). This move deals 15 damage to one opponent.

Descendafist- Mario Action
Aerial (This card exhausts your character). Spike (If your opponent must recover, they must flip one less coin). This move deals 10 damage to one opponent.

Back kick-Mario Action
Aerial (This card exhausts your character). This move deals 15 damage to one opponent.

Up Kick-Mario Action
Aerial. This card does not exhaust your character. You may perform another aerial. This move deals 5 damage to one opponent.

Coin Grab-Mario Action
Recovery (You may use this card on your opponent's turn. If you do, it deals no damage, and you may recover without flipping coins instead). Aerial (This card exhausts your character). This move deals 5 damage to one opponent.

Fireball-Mario Action
Ranged (You may use multiple ranged moves in one turn). This move deals 5 damage to one opponent.

Cape- Mario Action
You may play this card as a technique. If you do, choose one of the following-- Reflect a Ranged Action back at the controller, or flip an additional recovery coin this turn. Otherwise, deal 5 damage to one opponent.

Tornado- Mario Action
Divide 15 damage (in increments of 5) among up to three opponents.

Rising Tornado- Mario Technique
Rare. You may use this if you fail all recovery attempts. Reattempt to recover.

Breakdance Combo- Mario Technique
If you played the Action "Breakdance" this turn, you may play an additional Action Card.

Anti-Beez Throw- Mario Technique
Rare. If Bowser is exhausted, and you have "throw" in your hand, you may discard "throw" and play this card to force Bowser to recover. He must use two fewer coins.

Nemesis- Mario Technique
Constant. If Bowser or DK are in play, Mario's actions deal an additional five damage.

BOWSER THEMED CARDS

Bowser-Character
200 HP
Heavy (This character flips two extra coins during recovery attempts).

Smack-Bowser Action
Exhausts. Flip two coins. If both are heads, this move deals 20 damage and forces your opponent to recover.

Up-Spike-Bowser Action
Exhausts. If your opponent performed an aerial last turn, this move deals 15 damage to one opponent.

Spin-Spike-Bowser Action
Exhausts. Flip a coin. If it is heads, do 20 damage to one opponent.

Fire-Bowser Action.
Deals 10 damage to all opponents.

Claw- Bowser Action
You may Grab an opponent, even if they performed an aerial last turn.

Flying Fortress- Bowser Action
Rare. Recovers. Exhausts. Deals 10 damage to your opponent. If they have played an action this turn, nullify the actions, exhaust them, and deal 5 damage to them instead.

Buttpound-Bowser Action
Exhausts. Deals 10 damage and exhausts an opponent.

High-Four-Bowser Action
Aerial (this move exhausts your character). Deals 10 damage.

Airsmack- Bowser Action
Aerial (this move exhausts your character). Deals 15 Damage.

Backspikes- Bowser Action
Aerial (this move exhausts your character). Deals 10 Damage.

Spin-Down- Bowser Action
Aerial (this move exhausts your character). Can only be used if an opponent performed an aerial last turn. Deals 20 damage.

GENERAL CARDS

Up+B - Technique
Recovers (You do not have to flip coins to recover).

Heart Container-Item
Heal up to 50 damage from your character. Draw an additional card the beginning of your next turn phase.
 

Froilen

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
173
I am very interesting on your project... relly!! you manage very well the smash tecniques and stuff...


some cards sugestions:

edge hog:
rare.exausting. can only be activacte when you have 20hp or less. if your oponet atemp a recovery, negate it... your oponent(s) toss a coin, if tails... your oponent(s) lose the game.

ok isnt? is too much ownage? if it is, do some thing like : if is head you lose 15hp... or something like tath;););)
 

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
edge hog:
rare.exausting. can only be activacte when you have 20hp or less. if your oponet atemp a recovery, negate it... your oponent(s) toss a coin, if tails... your oponent(s) lose the game.
That's good. I'm going to modify it a little bit here though...

Edge Hog- Technique
Rare. Exhausts. May only be used if your opponent is at 15 HP or less. Your opponent may only flip one coin for recovery.

That's still significantly powerful. Cutting your opponent's chances of recovery like that will be a powerful weapon.

Here's a few more I wrote up:

Bomb-omb- Constant Item
Any player may discard two cards from their hand to activate Bomb-omb as an Action Card. If they do, bomb-omb deals 15 damage to one opponent and forces them to recover. If they do, exhaust the Character under control of bomb'omb's activator. Destroy Bomb-Omb.

Surprise Balloon!- Item
When you use this, your opponent picks a card from their hand. You guess what type it is (action, item, technique). If you guessed correctly, look through your deck for an item card, reveal it, and put it on top of your deck. If you guessed incorrectly, create a "walking Bomb-Omb" constant item token. The next time a character exhausts themselves, destroy "Walking Bomb-Omb" and deal 15 damage to them.
 

Froilen

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
173
I have some cuestiongs about the gameplay and stuf...

for the fire punch in the mario ¿move set? it says taht your oponent must recover, if he/she is at 80 hp its mean he/she will flip a coin 160 times??!?!?

the technics cards can be activate in either player turn? if not exausted may I asume, rigth? can be activacted from the hand?(cards in your hand at taht moment) like some magic, or needed to be set in the "field" like yu gi oh card traps?

those the field cards makes any diferents for some characters? or in general like norfair...

dont you think tath having cards thats worck only whit other specifci cards may cause some problems like the 2 last card from mario?

i realy dont get the discard concept... can you explain it in yu gi oh therms or at least like Pokemon CTG?


for last, some bowsers aerial need to have a ide efect like discard cards from the deck or so..

in fact... if it will only goin to have 4 cards of one kind... some way to recovery them seems very importat... like retur them to the deck in some point of the game... I just figured somthing, Wath if make a rule that says: if all of cards with the same name that you have in this match habe been used/destroyed/disardet, etc. (in the "gaveyard" for yu gi oh terms) you may return 1 of them to your deck (this can only be used once in the duel and only for 1 group of card, cant be used for the rare ones, because there are no group of just one card, and if you only have 2 or 3 copys of the same card and you wish to return one of them your oponet get to see your deck and your hand to confirm taht you dont have anny less...

quite a long rule... but can make special cards tath alow you to return more cards and stuff...

do you like it?:chuckle::chuckle::chuckle:
 

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
for the fire punch in the mario ¿move set? it says taht your oponent must recover, if he/she is at 80 hp its mean he/she will flip a coin 160 times??!?!?

No, they would flip a coin 16 times or until they got heads. There's no reason to keep flipping recovery coins after you get heads.

the technics cards can be activate in either player turn? if not exausted may I asume, rigth? can be activacted from the hand?(cards in your hand at taht moment) like some magic, or needed to be set in the "field" like yu gi oh card traps?

Technique cards may be used at any time, even if the character is exhausted. They are played from the hand, but remain in the action field face up until the discard phase. This is because some cards are dependent on what players did their last turn.

those the field cards makes any diferents for some characters? or in general like norfair...

Some cards affect specific characters, some are general, some are neutral.

dont you think tath having cards thats worck only whit other specifci cards may cause some problems like the 2 last card from mario?

No, it happens frequently. Drawing two cards a turn gives you reasonable chances you'll end up with one of each a couple times a game. It's also player choice whether or not to use them.

i realy dont get the discard concept... can you explain it in yu gi oh therms or at least like Pokemon CTG?

It's a new concept. It basically says that when you play a card, it remains on the field until the beginning of your next turn.


for last, some bowsers aerial need to have a ide efect like discard cards from the deck or so..

They're actually fairly weak cards. Moves that counter aerials tend to be fairly powerful.

in fact... if it will only goin to have 4 cards of one kind... some way to recovery them seems very importat... like retur them to the deck in some point of the game... I just figured somthing, Wath if make a rule that says: if all of cards with the same name that you have in this match habe been used/destroyed/disardet, etc. (in the "gaveyard" for yu gi oh terms) you may return 1 of them to your deck (this can only be used once in the duel and only for 1 group of card, cant be used for the rare ones, because there are no group of just one card, and if you only have 2 or 3 copys of the same card and you wish to return one of them your oponet get to see your deck and your hand to confirm taht you dont have anny less...

That's more complex than I'd like. I'd rather just make cards that return cards from the graveyard.
 

Froilen

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
173
so... it does have a gaveyard, hey interesting...

for the techique cards... they must have "Chain" set up like yu gi?

and... the recovery...

if at 15hp and reive 5hp damage, flip 2 coins rigt? but if it was an a spike is one less flip ... thats risky... but cool and realistic. if some character have de "ability" to start using flip coins recoveri at 15hp or 10hp? like peach or jigglypuff, tath would be nice:grin::grin::grin:
 

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
They only need a setup if the card specifies a need for a setup.

Ad yeah, floaty characters will probably have some sort of modifier, as will fast-fall characters.
 

gigasteve

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
730
Is everyone making a fan-based game now?
Yes. Maybe Sakurai will see how many obsessive, dorky, Smash people there are and make Smash Party 9?

That was sarcasm, but something with a 9 is probably hiding under our beds...

Anyways, both sound great, but I haven't read Rhubarbo's rules yet.
 

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Also, I have AIM: AlmightyPancakeJ

Hit me up if you have any playtest questions, or want to be involved in the making.
 

Froilen

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
173
the images for the cards should be taken after teh game realise, with the "take photos" feature? do you will asept pictures via Wii? how much this proyect is finished?:):):)
 

Papapaint

Just your average kind of Luigi.
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
925
Location
Williamsburg, VA
the images for the cards should be taken after teh game realise, with the "take photos" feature? do you will asept pictures via Wii? how much this proyect is finished?:):):)
To be honest, I could be finished with the first batch of playtest cards in under a week... I just haven't seen a whole lot of interest. If people show interest, I'll put this first set together.
 

Froilen

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
173
yes... not to muh interest... maybe bad timing:confused: I still want to play tath game:p:p:p
 
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