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Alcohol and Smoking Restrictions

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Jazzy Jinx

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Yeah I know the government already tried to ban alcohol during Prohibition but let's count this as a hypothetical situation. Besides, times have changed and really, alcohol can still be argued a ban should the person supporting the ban have a good plan of how to deal with the negative effects Prohibition had.

On the pro side of the debate you can argue that the economy benefits from alcohol sales. Have you ever wondered why most dry counties are densely populated and lack private businesses? Private businesses, usually restaraunts, are made in cities should alcohol be available for sale because the majority of adult drinkers are NOT alcoholics. However, despite the fact that a majority of adults are not alcoholics, a majority still drinks alcohol but they do it in moderation.

When adults want to go out to eat at a restaurant it only makes sense that they would want an alcoholic beverage to maybe loosen up a bit and relax a little more. When alcohol is available in restaurants, that restaurants' income becomes significantly higher. Without alcohol available, it is less likely that a restaraunt would want to open up in a dry county as opposed to a wet county. Through this, a dry county makes less income than a wet county and overall, makes less money for the economy. Not only that but the taxes that would have usually been recieved from private-owned businesses will instead be charged on the community, creating inflation.

Adversely, teens drink very often as well and usually do it irresponsibly. The leading cause of death among teenagers is drunk driving. Plus, there is a negative impact on the economy when car accidents occur as a result of drunk driving because an innocent life is almost always lost more frequently than the drunk driver him or herself. So now the economy has one less taxpayer and loses income on top of having to pay for the accident or damages.

The drunk driver can also recieve the criminal charges of manslaughter, DWI or DUI, and underaged possession and consumption of alcohol should the individual in question be under the age of 21. So now the government has to pay for prison accommodations (that's right, prison costs money) and yet another taxpayer is removed from the economic growth.

However, pro-alcohol can be argued to be more beneficial than the negative effects of it as it truly is economically. Though the accidents do impact economic growth, it is still worth it as the money grows more than it decreases at the expense of the victims. However, though drunks may hurt community safety, Prohibition created organized crime on top of causing a negative impact on the economy.

I believe alcohol should remain legal but teens should recieve more thorough education on the negatives of drinking alcohol without moderation or underaged. Truly, bad judgement is the main reason for all the negatives of alcohol consumption, not alcohol itself.

Edit: This was previously a discussion on alcohol solely but it began to incorporate arguments that include examples from smoking and then transformed into a debate about smoking so I changed the title up a bit.
 

Crimson King

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Prohibition was a failure because instead of enforcing current laws of alcohol, they made every drinking an outlaw. A man drinking in his home was on the same plane as Al Capone and that doesn't work.

There is absolutely no reason to ban any substance that has no ramifications on other people. Drinking and driving is illegal because it can affect other people, and I feel laws on that just need to be stricter.

Being a person to never drink or do drugs, I will say I don't because of my decision. Do I think others should be banned because I don't like something? No. It's not my life but theirs. I don't have to answer for their consequences nor should they answer to my morals.
 

Jazzy Jinx

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Prohibition was a failure because instead of enforcing current laws of alcohol, they made every drinking an outlaw. A man drinking in his home was on the same plane as Al Capone and that doesn't work.

There is absolutely no reason to ban any substance that has no ramifications on other people. Drinking and driving is illegal because it can affect other people, and I feel laws on that just need to be stricter.

Being a person to never drink or do drugs, I will say I don't because of my decision. Do I think others should be banned because I don't like something? No. It's not my life but theirs. I don't have to answer for their consequences nor should they answer to my morals.
Well spoken.

However, a majority of drunk car accidents is a direct result of teen drinking not adult drinking. Despite the fact that alcohol is illegal under the age of 21, teens still acquire alcoholic beverages more than likely from their parents' refigerator.

Here, despite the fact that the adult might drink in moderation, the teen is now in possession of the alcohol. I believe that the laws being stricter won't exactly help if the teen can get alcohol from their parents.

Instead we should concentrate on better educating teens into understanding the ramifications of their actions in regards to underage drinking and drinking and driving. An individual is 4 times more likely to become an alcoholic if they start during adolescence rather than during adulthood.

Attacking the problem before it starts would seem like a more effective course of action.
 

Digital Watches

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Correction, CK. The phrasing of prohibition actually outlaws the sale, production, and transportation of alcohol, but NOT drinking it. That being said, prohibition was indeed a failure (though in some senses a high point in American culture, in criminal circles), and would remain so today, mainly because it's just a dumb idea. I agree with the sentiment of harsher drunk driving laws, but banning alcohol is neither viable nor a solution. It's been proven to be impossible to enforce this sort of thing time and time again, from prohibition in the 20's to the rampant presence and use of currently illegal substances. It is therefore far more feasible to regulate a legal liquor industry, as breaking laws regarding alcohol seems to be much harder (or just less popular) than breaking laws against alcohol.
 

Crimson King

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Though true, they had strict laws for being caught intoxicated. So if you had scores of alcohol before as a surplus and were caught drunk, you were tossed in jail without trial.

The fact of the matter is the government has no right telling anyone what is or isn't ok for them to ingest.
 

Xsyven

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It's a pretty picture, but it'll never happen.

Even though Kenny mentioned that this situation is hypothetical, I can't help but think of what happened in the past. It's one of those situations that just can't happen.

Crimson King said:
There is absolutely no reason to ban any substance that has no ramifications on other people. Drinking and driving is illegal because it can affect other people, and I feel laws on that just need to be stricter.
So, with that mindset, what do you think about cigarettes? With secondhand smoke, and all.
 

Crimson King

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Second Hand smoke studies are very vague and cigarettes in general do not cause cancer. Everyone is predispositioned with the cells for cancer, cigarettes just accelerate their deterioration. I think as long as their is a glass division in restaurants, and decent ventilation, then the government has NO right to force business owners to keep out 50% of their former business.
 

Digital Watches

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See, I was with you on everything else, but where the hell are you getting this information? Actually, what are you even arguing? All cells can become cancerous if the regulation of their division is disrupted, and cigarette smoke has been proven to be one cause of this. Is there some magical process that makes smoke that a person sucks in carcinogenic but not the same smoke they blow out? Numerous experiments have been repeated time and time again, and show consistent results, so I don't understand where you're getting this "The studies are vague" nonsense from.

But yes, smoking sections in restaurants and the like are fine, but don't try to devalue decades of scientific research. I won't even go into how ridiculous it is to claim that restaurants are losing 50% of their business to smoking regulations.
 

Xsyven

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So, the studies are vague.

Do you consider smoking to be a healthy habit? Is it not a public pollution? Some people are even allergic to the smoke.

And I doubt restaurants would lose any business. Maybe some bars will, but people still have to eat.



...should we make a new thread?
 

Crimson King

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Digital Watches said:
See, I was with you on everything else, but where the hell are you getting this information? Actually, what are you even arguing? All cells can become cancerous if the regulation of their division is disrupted, and cigarette smoke has been proven to be one cause of this. Is there some magical process that makes smoke that a person sucks in carcinogenic but not the same smoke they blow out? Numerous experiments have been repeated time and time again, and show consistent results, so I don't understand where you're getting this "The studies are vague" nonsense from.
Numerous people I know who smoke, who do their homework, have shown me evidence to back that claim up. They show that regardless if you smoke or not, you are going to get cancer. My relatives who never smoked a day in their lives died of it, while some of my oldest ones who smoke every day live to died of heart failure around the age of 90.

Xsyven said:
Do you consider smoking to be a healthy habit? Is it not a public pollution? Some people are even allergic to the smoke.
I think it's a "None of my God **** business habit." I don't smoke, so I don't do it. If someone else wants to, go for it.

Xsyven said:
And I doubt restaurants would lose any business. Maybe some bars will, but people still have to eat.
Chili's here has lost about half it's normal business, but then averaged out to just 25% less here. (locally not at all nationally)
 

Digital Watches

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Right, because anecdotes stand up so well to legions of repeatable scientific experiments. No one is claiming that everyone who smokes will necessarily and inevitably develop cancer, and no one has argued that cigarette smoke is the ONLY cause of the thousands of diseases that are considered cancer. Considering that some kind of cancer or another accounts for a relatively huge percentage of human deaths, one might assume that it's fairly common, and has numerous causes.

But that's not really the issue. The issue is that since it's a well-documented carcinogen, one takes a risk, becoming more likely to develop a very deadly disease when exposing oneself to the chemical. So I would agree that it's none of my or anyone else's god**** business if someone smokes, unless of course they're smoking somewhere near where I am, in which case I will probably take steps to avoid breathing in or otherwise being exposed to a harmful chemical. Laws and regulations regarding smoking in public places are designed to make it so that people needn't make the choice between not going to a public establishment and breathing in a proven harmful chemical. Granted, some of them go a bit far.
 

Hamsterpie

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The adverse effects of cigarette smoking are due to the fact that cigarette producers increase the nicotine content of cigarettes, and in the process, add toxic chemicals which make the tobacco much more deadly that it would normally. That, and the tar found naturally in tobacco, damage and prevent healing of the lungs. This is the main danger smokers face.

That out of the way, few people will debate whether cigarettes are bad. The tobacco industry agrees that they cause cancer; however, tobacco companies simply provide a product for which there is a huge demand. The government is right in restricting the ages of those who can choose to partake in an addictive habit until they can make a well planned judgment. However, in my opinion government oversteps its boundaries when it bans smoking in private establishments, like bars and restaurants. The government should leave the search for smoke-free establishments to those who lead a smoke-free lifestyle.

As to alcohol, it is a well known economic phenomenon that when a certain product is restricted or banned, a black market will arise if the demand is there. If the government outlaws alcohol, then people who want it can still consume it, regardless of consequences. Then the government will be spending more money on enforcement of an inane law, and all the money those taxpayers who wont be killed by drunk drivers will make little difference.
 
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