AI Shaidrops 20xx Samus Movement

[Litt]

Well then my excuse is I don't own a WiiU, so I don't have an adapter. I don't really play smash anymore, so I don't have a reason to buy an adapter either.

I think we can AI into shield faster than their OoS option either way, so it's a mix up.

I mean you can also waveland on plat too into fast fall missile which covers their OoS option

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

do you press shield at the same time as the ai's uair to start the shaidrop? Do you do the shaidrop motions at the same time as the uair? Can somebody just list their inputs real quick?

 

[tauKhan]

IIRC Samus can land on frames 3-4 of her upair (not 100% sure, could be 2-3). So in that case you would want to press down on frame 4 after uair and shield 3 frames after that. Because the landing frame can be inconsistent and timings vary because of that, I recommend that you always do the full shai drop inputs: press down frame 1, then shield on frame 4/5. That way even if you are late on the down input, you still always get the drop.

I think it's best to first practice dash shai drops and shai drops after missile or something, and then combine the drops with the AI.

 

[Litt]

do you press shield at the same time as the ai's uair to start the shaidrop? Do you do the shaidrop motions at the same time as the uair? Can somebody just list their inputs real quick?

Hey Bill, to be honest I kinda cheat to do AI shai drops. When you mod your triggers and remove one of the springs, (like in z powershielding), having the trigger as analog makes the shai drop drastically easier after an AI. So my inputs would be c stick for the up air (frames 1-3 since Auto cancel: <4... not less than or equal to 4, so you have a 3 frame window). I flick up on the c stick, (flick up on c stick and let go immediately dont hold c stick up or you will buffer jump when trying to shai drop), then frame after i press down then frame after i just press the analog trigger and boom shai drop made ez, really just practice AIs, then when you get them down, just press down then analog trigger when you actually let go of c stick. Timing comes very natural in my opinion for this tech, you cant force it.

IIRC Samus can land on frames 3-4 of her upair (not 100% sure, could be 2-3). So in that case you would want to press down on frame 4 after uair and shield 3 frames after that. Because the landing frame can be inconsistent and timings vary because of that, I recommend that you always do the full shai drop inputs: press down frame 1, then shield on frame 4/5. That way even if you are late on the down input, you still always get the drop.

I think it's best to first practice dash shai drops and shai drops after missile or something, and then combine the drops with the AI.

Samus can land frames 1-3, you want to press down frames 4-7, and then shield any frame after pressing down.

 

[tauKhan]

You need downward extension on your ECB to trigger landing while going upwards, that's why AI is only possible on frames 3-4 of uair. For reference, this vid by @schmooblidon describes it nicely at 4:40 (For some reason I couldn't get the url with correct time)

Also yes, you can hold shield all the time provided that you press down at the correct timing. But I think it's still better to time the shield because you then get the drop even if you misstime the down input. The correct timing for the down input also varies depending on which frame you land on. On the other hand you don't lose anything if you time the shield when you time down well, so it's just better for consistency. If you try to just time the down input, you have to hit down on exactly frame 4 (Uair 1 being frame 1) to cover landing on both frames 3 and 4 of uair. With my suggested method, you can input down frame 4 or later, though even frame 5 means 1 wasted frame if you happened to land on frame 3 of uair.

If you are consistent with just timing the down input, then that's good, and no reason to change. I'm just giving my opinion of which method I think is the easiest to learn.

For whatever reason, the notation <4 for autocancel means that the move will still autocancel on frame 4. It makes no sense to me.

 

[Litt]

You need downward extension on your ECB to trigger landing while going upwards, that's why AI is only possible on frames 3-4 of uair. For reference, this vid by @schmooblidon describes it nicely at 4:40 (For some reason I couldn't get the url with correct time)

Also yes, you can hold shield all the time provided that you press down at the correct timing. But I think it's still better to time the shield because you then get the drop even if you misstime the down input. The correct timing for the down input also varies depending on which frame you land on. On the other hand you don't lose anything if you time the shield when you time down well, so it's just better for consistency. If you try to just time the down input, you have to hit down on exactly frame 4 (Uair 1 being frame 1) to cover landing on both frames 3 and 4 of uair. With my suggested method, you can input down frame 4 or later, though even frame 5 means 1 wasted frame if you happened to land on frame 3 of uair.

If you are consistent with just timing the down input, then that's good, and no reason to change. I'm just giving my opinion of which method I think is the easiest to learn.

For whatever reason, the notation <4 for autocancel means that the move will still autocancel on frame 4. It makes no sense to me.

That is really dumb notation... needs to be changed to

as for the other methods, I have already got the timing down for all platforms for the AI on all legal stages, all that is left is press down as soon as i let go of the flicking of the c stick then after down just hard shield with analog

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

Does the hard shield matter? I thought you could shield drop with light shield?

 

[tauKhan]

Yeah the shield size doesn't matter for the drop. However if you slowly press your trigger to full click, you can accidentally first drop and then airdodge. It's easy to avoid though.

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

Also just to be clear, pressing all the way down won't ever shield drop right? You have to hit one of the angles or only press slightly down right? And the shai doesn't have to follow an AI right? You can do it from standing?

 

[tauKhan]

No, you can and it's easiest to press full down to do the shai drop. Shield drop area covers basically the whole bottom part of the possible control stick inputs, starting a very tiny bit higher than the area to spotdodge. Basically shield drop input is active for 6 frames, beginning the frame you move your stick down. Note that the frames count even when you don't or cannot shield. So you can just press down, input shield on the 4th/5th frame. Since spotdodge input is active only for 4 frames, you can no longer spotdodge on the frame after shield comes up, so you shield drop instead.

It's pointless (and very hard) to shai drop from standing, since you already drop normally at the point at which you would shield drop. However it's useful and faster when you can input down during some lag or when dashing.

 

[BillNyeTheSamusGuy]

THANKYOU SO MUCH @ T tauKhan @ Litt this helps a ton!

 

[tauKhan]

Though not directly on topic, I also just realized that it's harder to do fp buffered shai drops after normal aerial landing lags than after impact lands. After aerial landing lag you go directly into Wait, out of which it's possible to spot dodge without shielding. So you can't use the 5th frame of the shield drop input window at all, because if you become actionable on the 4th frame of the window and try to put up shield, you would spot dodge instead. It's different with the impact land with the Samus uair AI, since you can't directly spot dodge out of the impact land animation.

 

[343]

Yeah the shield size doesn't matter for the drop. However if you slowly press your trigger to full click, you can accidentally first drop and then airdodge. It's easy to avoid though.

i hate when this happens to me LOL

i have this weird habit of lightshielding on platforms, and then if i try to full press L while shielddropping (don't ask why...) I end up shielddrop airdodging

it's very frustrating

 

[tauKhan]

I always trigger trick my shield button so that I cannot even light shield. Honestly I don't know how it's even possible, but I still manage to sometimes airdodge when shielddropping.

 

[343]

idk, Samus's shield is bad enough that I often find myself lightshielding on platforms

It's probably not a great idea because I take increased shieldstun / get knocked back further so shielddropping becomes less effective, but I'm scared of getting shieldpoked by Marth or w/e